458 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

@Eterna5
Really? You think the argument that the Reapers have committed crimes too heinous to be allowed to exist, and that using any technology of theirs is tainted (similar to the Destroy or Use choice for the ME2 Collector Base; or the disposition of the Genophage data in Mordin's loyalty mission) is meaningless?

Modifié par Obadiah, 21 février 2013 - 03:58 .

[Eterna]

Obadiah wrote...

@Eterna5
Really? You think the argument that the Reapers have committed crimes too heinous to be allowed to exist, and that using any technology of theirs is tainted (similar to the Destroy or Use choice for the ME2 Collector Base; or the disposition of te Genophage data in Mordin's loyalty mission) is meaningless?

Yes. Except for the Mordin Part.

[CosmicGnosis]

Obadiah wrote...

@Eterna5
Really? You think the argument that the Reapers have committed crimes too heinous to be allowed to exist, and that using any technology of theirs is tainted (similar to the Destroy or Use choice for the ME2 Collector Base; or the disposition of te Genophage data in Mordin's loyalty mission) is meaningless?

You know, that has bothered me for a long time. It's paragon to keep the cure data, but it's renegade to keep the base. Both contain useful information that was obtained through questionable means.

[Indy_S]

Eterna5 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@Eterna5
Really? You think the argument that the Reapers have committed crimes too heinous to be allowed to exist, and that thinking any technology of theirs is tainted, is meaningless?

Yes. Except for the Mordin Part.

That's perspective for you. I've got to ask, though, if you're not open to changing your mind and you've dismissed any notion of deeper understanding, why do you partake in ending-related threads such as this?

Edit: adjusted the quote to make sense.

Modifié par Indy_S, 21 février 2013 - 04:10 .

[BleedingUranium]

Eterna5 wrote...

 The only good argument against Synthesis is that it is forced. The rest is headcannon and emotional knee jerk tat.

So the fact that both of them are only supported by the villains means nothing to you?

Or that neither of them solves the supposed problem they exist to solve?

[Eterna]

Indy_S wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@Eterna5
Really? You think the argument that the Reapers have committed crimes too heinous to be allowed to exist, and that using any technology of theirs, is meaningless?

Yes. Except for the Mordin Part.

That's perspective for you. I've got to ask, though, if you're not open to changing your mind and you've dismissed any notion of deeper understanding, why do you partake in ending-related threads such as this?

Because I like discussing Mass Effect. Also you completely misquoted what the guy said who I responded to which makes what I said seem stupid, why?

Modifié par Eterna5, 21 février 2013 - 04:06 .

[BleedingUranium]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

You know, that has bothered me for a long time. It's paragon to keep the cure data, but it's renegade to keep the base. Both contain useful information that was obtained through questionable means.

Context.

[KBomb]

Eterna5 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Quick question: Has anyone's belief as to what is the the best/correct ending been changed at all by this debate?

No because all the arguments against Synthesis and Control are either headcannon or irrational arguments stemming from someones passion.

 I'd be a fool to let my beliefs be molded by irrational people and their imaginations. 

From the majority of what I have read, that is the case when arguing for Synthesis and Control.

Modifié par KBomb, 21 février 2013 - 04:08 .

[Indy_S]

Eterna5 wrote...

Because I like discussing Mass Effect. Also you completely misquoted what the guy said who I responded to which makes what I said seem stupid, why?

You seek discussion without gaining understanding? And I changed the quote to reduce it to just the question. Although I realise now I should have reread that question to see if it makes sense. I apologise.

Modifié par Indy_S, 21 février 2013 - 04:09 .

[Wayning_Star]

Indy_S wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@Eterna5
Really? You think the argument that the Reapers have committed crimes too heinous to be allowed to exist, and that using any technology of theirs, is meaningless?

Yes. Except for the Mordin Part.

That's perspective for you. I've got to ask, though, if you're not open to changing your mind and you've dismissed any notion of deeper understanding, why do you partake in ending-related threads such as this?

note: when using the word "crimes" that infers legal defense in civilized nations. How could you envision the legal aspects to denote crime and punishment, unless we're talking taking the law into our own hands, but condemning it when it suits our compunctions?

[Eterna]

KBomb wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Quick question: Has anyone's belief as to what is the the best/correct ending been changed at all by this debate?

No because all the arguments against Synthesis and Control are either headcannon or irrational arguments stemming from someones passion.

 I'd be a fool to let my beliefs be molded by irrational people and their imaginations. 

That is usually the case in the arguments for Synthesis and Control.

Headcannon, maybe. But most people who support Control and Synthesis take it with some degree of face value. Irrational? Hell no. 

[CosmicGnosis]

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

You know, that has bothered me for a long time. It's paragon to keep the cure data, but it's renegade to keep the base. Both contain useful information that was obtained through questionable means.

Context.

Eh... I understand that Shepard fears that TIM will build a Reaper, but there is also that utterly asinine "this place is an abomination" argument.

[Eterna]

Indy_S wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Because I like discussing Mass Effect.

You seek discussion without gaining understanding?

Not when the understanding the people here wish for me to see is that I'm stupid and indoctrinated for not agreeing with them. 

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Eterna5 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Because I like discussing Mass Effect.

You seek discussion without gaining understanding?

Not when the understanding the people here wish for me to see is that I'm stupid and indoctrinated for not agreeing with them. 

You keep throwing me off whenever you change your avatar.

Just...wanted to say that.

[BleedingUranium]

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can grab these electrical rods that will electrocute you and kill you, but then you'll be able to control them. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can jump into a beam of energy that will break you apart and kill you, but in doing so fuse all organic and synthetic life everywhere together to make eternal peace and happiness. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

Without any meta-gaming, why would you ever do either of these things?

[Eterna]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 The only good argument against Synthesis is that it is forced. The rest is headcannon and emotional knee jerk tat.

So the fact that both of them are only supported by the villains means nothing to you?

Or that neither of them solves the supposed problem they exist to solve?

I don't care that the villian supports them. Hitler supported guns, cleary by using guns in the war we are just as bad?

Control and Synthesis solve the problem, Destroy is a band aid. 

[Indy_S]

Eterna5 wrote...

Not when the understanding the people here wish for me to see is that I'm stupid and indoctrinated for not agreeing with them. 

Fair enough. I don't like those accusations either. They're unproductive. Dismissing all understanding is a different matter, though. That's unproductive as well.

[BleedingUranium]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Eh... I understand that Shepard fears that TIM will build a Reaper, but there is also that utterly asinine "this place is an abomination" argument.

And what's wrong with that argument?

[Eterna]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can grab these electrical rods that will electrocute you and kill you, but then you'll be able to control them. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can jump into a beam of energy that will break you apart and kill you, but in doing so fuse all organic and synthetic life everywhere together to make eternal peace and happiness. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

Without any meta-gaming, why would you ever do either of these things?

Why would you believe the leader of your greatest enemy when he tells you shooting a random tube will kill him? 

[DoomsdayDevice]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can grab these electrical rods that will electrocute you and kill you, but then you'll be able to control them. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can jump into a beam of energy that will break you apart and kill you, but in doing so fuse all organic and synthetic life everywhere together to make eternal peace and happiness. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

Without any meta-gaming, why would you ever do either of these things?

Because Reaper overlords are trustworthy! Obviously.

[Eterna]

Indy_S wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Not when the understanding the people here wish for me to see is that I'm stupid and indoctrinated for not agreeing with them. 

Fair enough. I don't like those accusations either. They're unproductive. Dismissing all understanding is a different matter, though. That's unproductive as well.

I understand Destroy and the arguments completely. I just don't agree with them. I also understand most of the arguments against Synthesis and Control, and I find them completely unconvincing. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 21 février 2013 - 04:16 .

[KBomb]

Eterna5 wrote...


Headcannon, maybe. But most people who support Control and Synthesis take it with some degree of face value. Irrational? Hell no. 

I changed my quote around somewhat because I don't want to put out the impression that I view all arguments like that.

The majority I have seen are ripe with headcanon, supposition and pure emotion. Nothing tangible. Taking it with face value is one thing, making up things about it to rationalize it or to make one feel good about themselves is irrational, especially when followed by insulting one's intelligence or ethics simply because they chose destroy. I am well aware that is the case in some pro-destroy arguments too, but some pro-control/synthesis are just vile about it, without providing much fact behind it.

[Wayning_Star]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can grab these electrical rods that will electrocute you and kill you, but then you'll be able to control them. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can jump into a beam of energy that will break you apart and kill you, but in doing so fuse all organic and synthetic life everywhere together to make eternal peace and happiness. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

Without any meta-gaming, why would you ever do either of these things?

probably the same reason anyone would take the dreaded catalyst at it's word and choose destroy, that the reaps would volunteer for extinction, or refuse that would let the harvest continue...

Shep is pretty special really.

[CosmicGnosis]

BleedingUranium wrote...

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can grab these electrical rods that will electrocute you and kill you, but then you'll be able to control them. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

The Reapers tell you that, because you're super special, you can jump into a beam of energy that will break you apart and kill you, but in doing so fuse all organic and synthetic life everywhere together to make eternal peace and happiness. Supported by the Reapers and their slaves.

Without any meta-gaming, why would you ever do either of these things?

I'm playing a video game. I don't expect the Catalyst to defend its dissertation to me. Granted, I would like more evidence for its claims, but I still accept what BioWare was trying to get at.

[BleedingUranium]

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 The only good argument against Synthesis is that it is forced. The rest is headcannon and emotional knee jerk tat.

So the fact that both of them are only supported by the villains means nothing to you?

Or that neither of them solves the supposed problem they exist to solve?

I don't care that the villian supports them. Hitler supported guns, cleary by using guns in the war we are just as bad?

Control and Synthesis solve the problem, Destroy is a band aid.

I'll let the Godwin slide because the Reapers are millions of times worse. And that's not all at a Hitler comparison that makes sense.

Neither Control nor Synthesis solve the supposed problem. A problem which only has been shown to exist in the mind of the Reapers, not in reality.