458 réponses à ce sujet

[clennon8]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Ooh, more defensive genocide apologism. Just what this forum needs.

I've made this point before: If you really wanted to get rid of the reapers, then the answer is simple. You'd pick Control, free the various species from the reaper consensus, and then destroy the reaper ships. Destroy is basically just Control + Genocide.

The Shep AI doesn't seem the tiniest bit inclined to get rid of the Reapers in the epilogue.

For someone who complains of headcanoning, you sure do seem to do it a lot.

Modifié par clennon8, 19 février 2013 - 07:34 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Auld Wulf wrote...
I've made this point before: If you really wanted to get rid of the reapers, then the answer is simple. You'd pick Control, free the various species from the reaper consensus, and then destroy the reaper ships. Destroy is basically just Control + Genocide.

....which would be an astonishingly good idea, if Shepard was actually the being controlling the Reapers in the "Control" ending.

Unfortunately, it's not.

The AI voicing the Control ending explicitly tells us it's not Shepard.  It's something else.  If it's not Shepard, the player has no control over what it will or won't do.  And it's pretty clear from the voiceover that Paragon or Renegade, it has absolutely no intention of destroying the Reaper ships.

So, nice idea, but unfortunately unworkable in anything but personal headcanon.  Sorry.

[essarr71]

Auld Wulf wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wrong. Look again. [Blah de blah blah.]

The headcanon is strong with this one. So many claims which are not at all substantiated by the game. So now we have headcanon offered as an excuse for pointless genocide. Hooray...

Sigh.

says the "use control to destroy the reaper ships" guy. 

[Liamv2]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Thanks for the reminder. Still not picking destroy..

Awesome sig. Warning: I'm stealing it. 

I was planning on putting a geth with sunglasses on it but i could not get it too look right

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

dorktainian wrote...

for frodo....

best comment in this thread, for frodo....

[ElSuperGecko]

essarr71 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wrong. Look again. [Blah de blah blah.]

The headcanon is strong with this one. So many claims which are not at all substantiated by the game. So now we have headcanon offered as an excuse for pointless genocide. Hooray...

Sigh.

says the "use control to destroy the reaper ships" guy. 

:lol::lol:

[Daniel_N7]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...
I've made this point before: If you really wanted to get rid of the reapers, then the answer is simple. You'd pick Control, free the various species from the reaper consensus, and then destroy the reaper ships. Destroy is basically just Control + Genocide.

....which would be an astonishingly good idea, if Shepard was actually the being controlling the Reapers in the "Control" ending.

Unfortunately, it's not.

The AI voicing the Control ending explicitly tells us it's not Shepard.  It's something else.  If it's not Shepard, the player has no control over what it will or won't do.  And it's pretty clear from the voiceover that Paragon or Renegade, it has absolutely no intention of destroying the Reaper ships.

So, nice idea, but unfortunately unworkable in anything but personal headcanon.  Sorry.

This, exactly. In other words: Listen to yourself, you're INDOCTRINATED!

[DeinonSlayer]

essarr71 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Wrong. Look again. [Blah de blah blah.]

The headcanon is strong with this one. So many claims which are not at all substantiated by the game. So now we have headcanon offered as an excuse for pointless genocide. Hooray...

Sigh.

says the "use control to destroy the reaper ships" guy. 

He also seems to have convinced himself that synthesis is voluntary.

[DeinonSlayer]

Liamv2 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Thanks for the reminder. Still not picking destroy..

Awesome sig. Warning: I'm stealing it. 

I was planning on putting a geth with sunglasses on it but i could not get it too look right

I believe you'd need a monacle. And a top hat.

[DeepChild]

Enhanced wrote...

I think most the OP is true, except this...

ElSuperGecko wrote...

  Now, you can empathise with the Catalyst if you want, you can listen to it's (inhuman) arguments, accept it's (disingenuous) assertations and agree with it's (flawed) logic if you wish, but TWO MINUTES of nonsensical platitudes and vague assurances are not enough to convince me that everything we know about the Reapers is a lie.

 The existence of the Crucible itself and the Leviathan's info prove that's the Catalyst's logic isn't flawed, the inevitable synthetic/organic conflicts are a real concern. Even, under the Leviathan's influence, civlizations were always eventually wiped out by their own creations. Whoever designed the Crucible recognized this also. 
 
So, here's another reminder: They are a solution to the problem. Destroying them doesn't make the problem go away.

Yes, the Reapers prevent synthetics from destroying all organic life; they destroy organic life before sufficiently advanced synthetics can be created.  It's the kind of solution you'd expect from an artificial intelligence.  Problem:  There isn't enough food to feed everyone.  AI solution:  kill half of the people and feed them to the other half.  Perfectly logical yet completely insane.

The Reapers aren't a solution to the problem synthetics pose to organics;  they're the greatest manifestation of the problem to have ever been created.  Consider the Leviathans.  They see the problem synthetics pose for organics.  They assume synthetics will always attempt to destroy all organics, and that they will inevitably succeed.  To solve the problem, they create a synthetic intelligence who proceeds to destroy them.  

It is on this intelligence's assurances that you base your decision not to destroy the Reapers who are busying themselves cleansing the galaxy of advanced civilizations.  For millions of years organic life in the galaxy has paid the price for the Leviathans' mistake.  What will happen in the future if the Reapers are destroyed?  No one can say.  That's better than the certainty of the cycle.

[essarr71]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

He also seems to have convinced himself that synthesis is voluntary.

It cant be forced!  You clearly have no idea what youre talking about, everyone else!

[Liamv2]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Thanks for the reminder. Still not picking destroy..

Awesome sig. Warning: I'm stealing it. 

I was planning on putting a geth with sunglasses on it but i could not get it too look right

I believe you'd need a monacle. And a top hat.

I will try that

[GethPrimeMKII]

You think the catalyst would be nice enough to have his toys cease fire while Shepard makes the most important decision in galactic history. It's not much of a peace negotiation if cannons are still firing in the process.

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 19 février 2013 - 07:59 .

[Eterna]

Except they do give us other choices. You just let your passions and need for revenge get in the way of your judgement.

How primitive.

[dorktainian]

choices. ah yes the illusion of choice. really there is only one choice.

[Eterna]

dorktainian wrote...

choices. ah yes the illusion of choice. really there is only one choice.

For Close minded people. 

[dorktainian]

Eterna5 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

choices. ah yes the illusion of choice. really there is only one choice.

For Close minded people. 

way to insult the majority of BSN users.  Good job.

[BleedingUranium]

Eterna5 wrote...

Except they do give us other choices. You just let your passions and need for revenge get in the way of your judgement.

How primitive.

Yes, "other choices".

-Serve us. (Succumb)

-Become like us. (Ascend)

-Die. (Be Annihilated)

-Do what you came here to do. (Reapers never considered this possible)

[Grubas]

Eterna5 wrote...

Except they do give us other choices. You just let your passions and need for revenge get in the way of your judgement.

How primitive.

Im not altering the genom of the entire galaxy, just because some fools decided to "upgrade" themself with the reapercode.

Think about how many more will die, if the galaxy finds itself in the need to show the catalyst his error again.

Modifié par Grubas, 19 février 2013 - 08:21 .

[Eterna]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Except they do give us other choices. You just let your passions and need for revenge get in the way of your judgement.

How primitive.

Yes, "other choices".

-Serve us. (Succumb)

-Become like us. (Ascend)

-Die. (Be Annihilated)

-Do what you came here to do. (Reapers never considered this possible)

Don't blame others because you've misinterpreted what the endings actually are. 

[dorktainian]

Eterna5 wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Except they do give us other choices. You just let your passions and need for revenge get in the way of your judgement.

How primitive.

Yes, "other choices".

-Serve us. (Succumb)

-Become like us. (Ascend)

-Die. (Be Annihilated)

-Do what you came here to do. (Reapers never considered this possible)

Don't blame others because you've misinterpreted what the endings actually are. 

oh dear.  reported.

[DeinonSlayer]

Eterna5 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

choices. ah yes the illusion of choice. really there is only one choice.

For Close minded people. 

A new weather bulletin has just been issued.

[Grubas]

Eterna5 wrote...


Don't blame others because you've misinterpreted what the endings actually are. 

There was an official interpretation of the endings somewhere? Yey finally our specualtions have an end. Show source please. 

Modifié par Grubas, 19 février 2013 - 08:30 .

[BleedingUranium]

Grubas wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Don't blame others because you've misinterpreted what the endings actually are.

There was an official interpretation of the endings somewhere? Yey finally our specualtions have an end. Show source please.

I would like to see this as well.

[ATiBotka]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liamv2 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Thanks for the reminder. Still not picking destroy..

Awesome sig. Warning: I'm stealing it.