458 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

clennon8 wrote...

I find it amusing that some people turn off their critical thinking and call it open mindedness.

"There's this thing called being so open-minded your brains drop out." -Richard Dawkins

[Ieldra]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I'm perfectly fine with taking a shortcut. A shortcut means that billions more will enjoy the benefits. Are you really going to condemn a few generations of quarians to illness?

its the natural order. shortcuts coem at a price - nothing is for free.

Untrue. This is just a dogma resulting from the - totally misplaced - idea that karma is built into the structure of the universe. There is nothing in the "natural order" that intrinsically prevents shortcuts from working. Also, we're working every day to emancipate ourselves from the "natural order".

and still we have to pay a priced.

edit: the "natural order" of events would be, that the quariens readapt to rannoch by themselves. this would taka long time. it is the consequence of their choice. ame for the krogan.

if those races achieve new greatness, they will make it on their own - without help. i think this is preferable and prooves, that they can make it without help.

I don't see why this should be intrinsically preferable. You're talking as if technology exchange hadn't been a part of  human history since technology exists.

I see the spectre of Protestant ethics lurking in your reasoning. "Nothing is worth anything if you haven't worked hard to achieve it". I do not subscribe to that idea. It is a dogma with no foundation.

[CronoDragoon]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

its the natural order. shortcuts coem at a price - nothing is for free. the price in synthesis is the right of self determination and genetic diversity (outside of looks).

Where are you drawing the line between "natural" and "unnatural"? Since Shepard is a part of the natural order, isn't anything he does natural evolution?

[BleedingUranium]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't see why this should be intrinsically preferable. You're talking as if technology exchange hadn't been a part of  human history since technology exists.

I see the spectre of Protestant ethics lurking in your reasoning. "Nothing is worth anything if you haven't worked hard to achieve it". I do not subscribe to that idea. It is a dogma with no foundation.

Mordin has something to say about that.

[jtav]

Mordin is wrong. The dogma he is presenting is wrong.

[BleedingUranium]

jtav wrote...

Mordin is wrong. The dogma he is presenting is wrong.

So our allies are wrong and the Reapers are right?

[CosmicGnosis]

If I take Mordin completely literally, then EDI and the geth are not alive. I believe that they are.

[BleedingUranium]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

If I take Mordin completely literally, then EDI and the geth are not alive. I believe that they are.

I don't recall him saying that, but regardless, that's not relevant here.

[Wayning_Star]

mordin rationalizes genophage, then guilt ridden entire life, found defenless, saw error of ways, lost in grief, cured genophage out of self pity, many wished never existed, but did.

all races build off previous generations, problematic, but unescapable, enevitable risk factors preclude alternatives, all time based. Need more study to accomplish concensus.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 20 février 2013 - 05:40 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

jtav wrote...

And I'm perfectly fine with taking a shortcut. A shortcut means that billions more will enjoy the benefits. Are you really going to condemn a few generations of quarians to illness?

its the natural order. shortcuts coem at a price - nothing is for free.

Untrue. This is just a dogma resulting from the - totally misplaced - idea that karma is built into the structure of the universe. There is nothing in the "natural order" that intrinsically prevents shortcuts from working. Also, we're working every day to emancipate ourselves from the "natural order".

and still we have to pay a priced.

edit: the "natural order" of events would be, that the quariens readapt to rannoch by themselves. this would taka long time. it is the consequence of their choice. ame for the krogan.

if those races achieve new greatness, they will make it on their own - without help. i think this is preferable and prooves, that they can make it without help.

I don't see why this should be intrinsically preferable. You're talking as if technology exchange hadn't been a part of  human history since technology exists.

I see the spectre of Protestant ethics lurking in your reasoning. "Nothing is worth anything if you haven't worked hard to achieve it". I do not subscribe to that idea. It is a dogma with no foundation.

but we still have the freedon to choose not to use this technology. dont try to insult me. this is a low blow. people learn by making mistakes - if you take away the possibility to make mistakes, you take away the a part of the learning process. trial and error.

this is not a dogma - it is the way we learn.


@ jtav

the quariens have those health problems, because they made a decision 300 years ago. we all have to pay the price for our decisions. its a part of growing up and learning.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 20 février 2013 - 05:40 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

I see now why the reapers have taken an interest in humanity. Despite the atrocities committed by the reapers, we somehow come to the conclusion that we're at fault and they're just looking out for us. We make ourselves out to be easy prey.

[Wayning_Star]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I see now why the reapers have taken an interest in humanity. Despite the atrocities committed by the reapers, we somehow come to the conclusion that we're at fault and they're just looking out for us. We make ourselves out to be easy prey.

we built them, and they came, because we build them and try to destroy them and us. Every being expands their knowledge, with that their power. Reapers are an example of creativity, nothing more. The event of any 'societies' END is forged in their foundation. Check history for a primer.

[CosmicGnosis]

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

If I take Mordin completely literally, then EDI and the geth are not alive. I believe that they are.

I don't recall him saying that, but regardless, that's not relevant here.

The "replaced with tech" argument suggests that synthetics are not alive because they are nothing but tech.

[Wayning_Star]

[/quote]

but we still have the freedon to choose not to use this technology. dont try to insult me. this is a low blow. people learn by making mistakes - if you take away the possibility to make mistakes, you take away the a part of the learning process. trial and error.

this is not a dogma - it is the way we learn.


@ jtav

the quariens have those health problems, because they made a decision 300 years ago. we all have to pay the price for our decisions. its a part of growing up and learning. [/quote]

we learn by blanketing ideas..interesting way to usurp others. Learning curves are too expensive when the fault lies in the making of the reality of any given system.

Learn the easy way or learn the hard way?

[GethPrimeMKII]

Wayning_Star wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I see now why the reapers have taken an interest in humanity. Despite the atrocities committed by the reapers, we somehow come to the conclusion that we're at fault and they're just looking out for us. We make ourselves out to be easy prey.

we built them, and they came, because we build them and try to destroy them and us. Every being expands their knowledge, with that their power. Reapers are an example of creativity, nothing more. The event of any 'societies' END is forged in their foundation. Check history for a primer.

I cannot for the life of me understand a dam thing you just said.

[Davik Kang]

How quickly people forget...

Approx 1 1/2 pages apparently!

[clennon8]

BleedingUranium wrote...

jtav wrote...

Mordin is wrong. The dogma he is presenting is wrong.

So our allies are wrong and the Reapers are right?

At last!  You have seen the truth!  Are you ready to repent, sinner?  To complete your salvation, all you must do is sacrifice yourself.  Just walk on over to that ledge and take a swan dive into the light!

[Obadiah]

This discussion got interesting. May I just point out that when Shep is making the decision in the Decision Chamber, he does not have the specifics of the EC slides to guide him. He's pretty much going off what the Catalyst says.

[CronoDragoon]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

The "replaced with tech" argument suggests that synthetics are not alive because they are nothing but tech.

I don't think so. I think Mordin was making an abstract statement that what previously had defined the Protheans - culture, for example - had become lost in the process of converting them into the Collectors, tangibly represented by technology.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 20 février 2013 - 05:51 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Wayning_Star wrote...

but we still have the freedon to choose not to use this technology. dont try to insult me. this is a low blow. people learn by making mistakes - if you take away the possibility to make mistakes, you take away the a part of the learning process. trial and error.

this is not a dogma - it is the way we learn.


@ jtav

the quariens have those health problems, because they made a decision 300 years ago. we all have to pay the price for our decisions. its a part of growing up and learning.

we learn by blanketing ideas..interesting way to usurp others. Learning curves are too expensive when the fault lies in the making of the reality of any given system.

Learn the easy way or learn the hard way?

the quariens learned it the hard way (their own choice). synthesis however, eliminates the learning process. there is no learning - only knowledge

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 20 février 2013 - 05:52 .

[Wayning_Star]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

If I take Mordin completely literally, then EDI and the geth are not alive. I believe that they are.

I don't recall him saying that, but regardless, that's not relevant here.

The "replaced with tech" argument suggests that synthetics are not alive because they are nothing but tech.

Mordin merely states a rolex isn't 'life' other say it shouldn't be, because they said Mordin says so. War of words, baseless at that, when 'life' is connection used to discipher the 'code' of existence. Mordin never states that Edi isnt alive,nor Geth.

Folks could(and do) argue from the head of a pin, how many fairies lives there.

[Ieldra]

BleedingUranium wrote...

jtav wrote...
Mordin is wrong. The dogma he is presenting is wrong.

So our allies are wrong and the Reapers are right?

Oh god, not this again.

The merit of an idea is independent from the identity, morality or affiliation of those who support it.

[CronoDragoon]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I see now why the reapers have taken an interest in humanity. Despite the atrocities committed by the reapers, we somehow come to the conclusion that we're at fault and they're just looking out for us. We make ourselves out to be easy prey.

That's not the argument I'm seeing. What I am seeing is Destroyers failing to acknowledge the legitimate point that the Catalyst, not the Reapers, is to blame for the cycle. I am a Destroyer but I destroy the Reapers knowing full well that they are not responsible for what the Catalyst made them do.

[clennon8]

Obadiah wrote...

This discussion got interesting. May I just point out that when Shep is making the decision in the Decision Chamber, he does not have the specifics of the EC slides to guide him. He's pretty much going off what the Catalyst says.

Stock answer:  "I meta-gamed because bad writing."

Modifié par clennon8, 20 février 2013 - 06:08 .

[Ieldra]

There is nothing intrinsically wrong about "taking the easy way". It may have undesirable side effects, or it may not have, depending on the specifics. It is not possible to generalize that statement.