1800 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunvi]

Deerber wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Claymore > Wraith.

In feel, damage, everything. Honestly, I feel like I can reload cancel and get a 2nd Claymore shot off just as quick as I can get that 2nd Wraith shot off.

You can. I just did the math. Perfect reload cancelling is 1 shot every 1.04 seconds. That's unlikely, but 1 shot every 1.10 seconds is still damn good. Wraith is 2nd shot every 1.25 seconds, 3rd shot every 1.79 seconds with perfect reload cancelling (you can't reload until the firing delay is up).

And people wonder why I despise the thing sometimes.

Not to be the serious guy in a troll post... But just so you know. This is wrong. You need to wait for the RoF time before you can start the reload animation. Therefore, you can, at the very best, pull out a shot from the Claymore once every 2.04 seconds 

Dammit.

How come it feels faster than?

Also this is what I get for trying to do weapon analysis 10 minutes after waking up.

ETA: PS it's actaully every 1.9775 because firing rate on claymore is 64, not 60

Modifié par Dunvi, 20 février 2013 - 08:44 .

[BridgeBurner]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

I don't always bother aim-firing my claymore, but when I do, I headshot phantoms on host during the 0.03 second window that the phantom's DR isn't active after she finishes her flip.



Because I'm a PC hacker, obviously.

Modifié par Annomander, 20 février 2013 - 08:43 .

[Deerber]

Dunvi wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

Claymore > Wraith.

In feel, damage, everything. Honestly, I feel like I can reload cancel and get a 2nd Claymore shot off just as quick as I can get that 2nd Wraith shot off.

You can. I just did the math. Perfect reload cancelling is 1 shot every 1.04 seconds. That's unlikely, but 1 shot every 1.10 seconds is still damn good. Wraith is 2nd shot every 1.25 seconds, 3rd shot every 1.79 seconds with perfect reload cancelling (you can't reload until the firing delay is up).

And people wonder why I despise the thing sometimes.

Not to be the serious guy in a troll post... But just so you know. This is wrong. You need to wait for the RoF time before you can start the reload animation. Therefore, you can, at the very best, pull out a shot from the Claymore once every 2.04 seconds 

Dammit.

How come it feels faster than?

Also this is what I get for trying to do weapon analysis 10 minutes after waking up.

Haha I know, there was a time when I would have been ready to swear that I could fire faster. But Tyhw confirmed me I cannot, and I have faith in his word 

[Kalas Magnus]

JediHarbinger wrote...

Ashen is a better player than he is a troller.

nah

[ManRightChea]

Dunvi wrote...

ManRightChea wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Oh you guys are all ridiculous.

1. Claymoar.
2. 1 second longer cooldowns really hurts me that much?
3. Two shots do not make up for less damage, period.
4. DAT FIRING DELAY.
5. RoF on the Wraith is 48 rpm, or 1.25 second firing delay on that second shot.
6. 1.04 cancelled reload speed or bust!
7. Besides, Claymoar doesn't sound like an empty tin can being banged on a card table.

There is a reason the Wraith is UR and the Claymore isn't.  Wraith might have a firing delay but Claymore needs RC to be effective in alot of case, so that is moot.  The Claymore X would need to compete against a Wraith V to even have a chance, a Wraith X is not even a competition.

I don't understand your point. Are you agreeing that, if you can reload cancel, Claymoar wins?

No I was stating that at X to X, the Wraith is the far better gun, RC or not, considering the real world ROF between the two is likely similar due to the Wraith's firing delay and the Claymore's need to RC.  Though I love both guns overall.   The Wraith is really in truth, the ME 2 Claymore.

[SavagelyEpic]

ManRightChea wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

ManRightChea wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Oh you guys are all ridiculous.

1. Claymoar.
2. 1 second longer cooldowns really hurts me that much?
3. Two shots do not make up for less damage, period.
4. DAT FIRING DELAY.
5. RoF on the Wraith is 48 rpm, or 1.25 second firing delay on that second shot.
6. 1.04 cancelled reload speed or bust!
7. Besides, Claymoar doesn't sound like an empty tin can being banged on a card table.

There is a reason the Wraith is UR and the Claymore isn't.  Wraith might have a firing delay but Claymore needs RC to be effective in alot of case, so that is moot.  The Claymore X would need to compete against a Wraith V to even have a chance, a Wraith X is not even a competition.

I don't understand your point. Are you agreeing that, if you can reload cancel, Claymoar wins?

No I was stating that at X to X, the Wraith is the far better gun, RC or not, considering the real world ROF between the two is likely similar due to the Wraith's firing delay and the Claymore's need to RC.  Though I love both guns overall.   The Wraith is really in truth, the ME 2 Claymore.

Wait, you're saying needing to RC makes a weapon inferior?

lolk

[Dunvi]

ManRightChea wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

ManRightChea wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Oh you guys are all ridiculous.

1. Claymoar.
2. 1 second longer cooldowns really hurts me that much?
3. Two shots do not make up for less damage, period.
4. DAT FIRING DELAY.
5. RoF on the Wraith is 48 rpm, or 1.25 second firing delay on that second shot.
6. 1.04 cancelled reload speed or bust!
7. Besides, Claymoar doesn't sound like an empty tin can being banged on a card table.

There is a reason the Wraith is UR and the Claymore isn't.  Wraith might have a firing delay but Claymore needs RC to be effective in alot of case, so that is moot.  The Claymore X would need to compete against a Wraith V to even have a chance, a Wraith X is not even a competition.

I don't understand your point. Are you agreeing that, if you can reload cancel, Claymoar wins?

No I was stating that at X to X, the Wraith is the far better gun, RC or not, considering the real world ROF between the two is likely similar due to the Wraith's firing delay and the Claymore's need to RC.  Though I love both guns overall.   The Wraith is really in truth, the ME 2 Claymore.

I have no nostalgia, never used ME2's claymoar. Widow on my Infil, too lazy to hack my inis for my Adept (I had to make the game harder somehow, insanity was too freaking easy unless I underlevelled, purposefully chose bad teammates for areas, and didn't hack in the best weapons).

[Ronnie Blastoff]

The wraith is a better gun, always will be a better gun. Anyone who disagrees simply failed 1st grade math and are to stupid to be taught anything anyway.

Annomander wrote...


Remember, on PC we're all a bunch of aimbotting, wallhacking, no-spreading, frame rate capping, ini. file tweaking no good sunsabyches.

Because it takes no skill to aim for the head while moving, or to hit moving targets, and we all cap our frames at 20. Just plug in a mouse and own a copy of ME3 and BANG, instant god mode...

QFT

[ManRightChea]

@ SavagelyEpic How on Earth did you come to that conclusion? Re-read what I posted carefully.

[capn233]

Everyone knows the Crusader is the best gun in the game, so it is therefore the best shotgun.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Annomander wrote...
I don't always bother aim-firing my claymore, but when I do, I headshot phantoms on host during the 0.03 second window that the phantom's DR isn't active after she finishes her flip.



Because I'm a PC hacker, obviously.

[tungstenKestrel]

Ramsutin wrote...

tungstenKestrel wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

As Jay has already mentioned Reegar>All.

Oh so melty on the Human Infiltrator.

4 HIs or 3 Paladins and a GI and you will  melt everything in a clip*.




*I haven't actually done the math.

Human Infiltrator has Cloak and Cryo Blast. Throw both piercing mods on and Incendiary IVs, with Shotgun Amp III. With 2 clips, all by yourself, you wreck a Prime. This is accelerated with DoT. You could technically use up about 30 Ammo instead of 44, and it'll still kill the Prime, but at that range, unless you're using right hand cover (which you always should be against a Prime with that build) , you want it gone ASAP. Regar's firing delay makes it horrible against geth, due to stunlock, but wonderful against Geth because they have really ****ty overall health.

Cerberus is a joke, as long as they don't see you at range. Aim for the Dragoons first, let them die to DoT. The rest is your choosing.

[UnknownMercenary]

Dunvi wrote...

I have no nostalgia, never used ME2's claymoar. Widow on my Infil, too lazy to hack my inis for my Adept (I had to make the game harder somehow, insanity was too freaking easy unless I underlevelled, purposefully chose bad teammates for areas, and didn't hack in the best weapons).

The ME2 Claymore was glorious. Inferno ammo with Heigtened Adrenaline Rush/Heavy Charge...

[ISHYGDDT]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...


l2reloadcancel the Wraith.

lolucan'treloadcancelpastfiredelayfoolishscrub

Take into account fire delay of the Claymore as well: it's 0.94 seconds.

Lets take a representative cluster of 4 humanoid enemies and see how long it takes to dispatch them:

minimum time to fire 4 claymore shots: (1.04+0.94)*3 seconds = 5.94 seconds
minimum time to fire 4 wraith shots:  1.25+(1.25+0.54)+1.25 = 4.29 seconds.

Conclusion:  Wraith > Claymore.

Of course Talon >> Wraith but that doesn't matter for this discussion.

Claymore is loved for one reason:  aesthetics.

[tungstenKestrel]

My Talon sucks. But it's level 3.

[Deerber]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

I have no nostalgia, never used ME2's claymoar. Widow on my Infil, too lazy to hack my inis for my Adept (I had to make the game harder somehow, insanity was too freaking easy unless I underlevelled, purposefully chose bad teammates for areas, and didn't hack in the best weapons).

The ME2 Claymore was glorious. Inferno ammo with Heigtened Adrenaline Rush/Heavy Charge...

/Goes starting another ME2 Vanguard playthrough.

[BridgeBurner]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

The wraith is a better gun, always will be a better gun. Anyone who disagrees simply failed 1st grade math and are to stupid to be taught anything anyway.

Annomander wrote...


Remember, on PC we're all a bunch of aimbotting, wallhacking, no-spreading, frame rate capping, ini. file tweaking no good sunsabyches.

Because it takes no skill to aim for the head while moving, or to hit moving targets, and we all cap our frames at 20. Just plug in a mouse and own a copy of ME3 and BANG, instant god mode...

QFT

Ronnie Blastoff, I can never take anything you say seriously.



You're just jealous because we has:

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

Modifié par Annomander, 20 février 2013 - 09:00 .

[Admiral Dreck]

Annomander wrote...
I don't always bother aim-firing my claymore, but when I do, I headshot phantoms on host during the 0.03 second window that the phantom's DR isn't active after she finishes her flip.



Because I'm a PC hacker, obviously.

I call hacks!...

[Dunvi]

Well, according to the math I'm trying to run, the Claymore still comes out ahead damage-wise until Wraith IX. Only a Wraith X beats it... by like 10 points of damage... and still looses against armor.

So Claymoar wins.

[Ramsutin]

Dunvi wrote...

Well, according to the math I'm trying to run, the Claymore still comes out ahead damage-wise until Wraith IX. Only a Wraith X beats it... by like 10 points of damage... and still looses against armor.

So Claymoar wins.

Well of course it wins. It's Claymore!

[Zero132132]

Wraith is better on most stuff that's cooldown reliant. I still don't get why you'd take the Claymore over it on a Drellguard. But as a weapon alone on classes that are much less concerned with that CD bonus/penalty from weight, the Claymore is generally a better weapon.

Maybe not. Isn't the Wraith substantially more accurate too?

[Deerber]

Dunvi wrote...

Well, according to the math I'm trying to run, the Claymore still comes out ahead damage-wise until Wraith IX. Only a Wraith X beats it... by like 10 points of damage... and still looses against armor.

So Claymoar wins.

Haha you really wanna get serious at this, don't you?! Oh well. Here's my take. You're right, but you still have to account for the weight difference. Bottom line, on a kit on which I actually care about CDs (not even half of them actually...) I prefer the Wraith.

[shivyshivy]

Eviscerator X beats both of them. Is lyk 3 shot wrath.

[Dunvi]

Deerber wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Well, according to the math I'm trying to run, the Claymore still comes out ahead damage-wise until Wraith IX. Only a Wraith X beats it... by like 10 points of damage... and still looses against armor.

So Claymoar wins.

Haha you really wanna get serious at this, don't you?! Oh well. Here's my take. You're right, but you still have to account for the weight difference. Bottom line, on a kit on which I actually care about CDs (not even half of them actually...) I prefer the Wraith.

Agree. Confession time, I was messing around with Bloodpack characters yesterday, took Claymoar on BatSentinel, then tried Wraith on him and felt he did much better, mostly because I could actually detonate my own goddamn techbursts. But even most power users aren't quite that dependent.

ps Drellguard + Claymoar FTW.

[ManRightChea]

Dunvi wrote...

Well, according to the math I'm trying to run, the Claymore still comes out ahead damage-wise until Wraith IX. Only a Wraith X beats it... by like 10 points of damage... and still looses against armor.

So Claymoar wins.

According to ISHYGDDT's math , it still loses lol.  Claymore will do the job, just slower.

Modifié par ManRightChea, 20 février 2013 - 09:12 .