245 réponses à ce sujet

[Paul E Dangerously]

I'll take "forced emotion" over "standing there with your character's mouth gaping open and nothing coming out during every emotional scene".

[IanPolaris]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

I'll take "forced emotion" over "standing there with your character's mouth gaping open and nothing coming out during every emotional scene".

I wouldn't.  Let me decide FOR MYSELF what emotion I want my character to have.

Whoever thought that autodialog was a good idea in a roleplaying game deserves to be covered in honey and buried up to their neck next to an anthill.

-Polaris

[wright1978]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I'm fine with auto dialog that's basically of a "Charge!" or "It's time to go" variety. Stuff that just moves events forward but is completely devoid of expressed opinion or ethics. What I don't want is 3 sentences of the character expressing feelings and motivation I got no input in such as ME3 had.

Agree with above poster that DAII did it better than ME3.

Yep this. There was too much characterising auto-dialogue in ME3.

[Xilizhra]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

I'll take "forced emotion" over "standing there with your character's mouth gaping open and nothing coming out during every emotional scene".

I wouldn't.  Let me decide FOR MYSELF what emotion I want my character to have.

Whoever thought that autodialog was a good idea in a roleplaying game deserves to be covered in honey and buried up to their neck next to an anthill.

-Polaris

But that emotion is almost universally "utterly nil." You don't choose it any more than in DA2, you just have less range.

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

I'll take "forced emotion" over "standing there with your character's mouth gaping open and nothing coming out during every emotional scene".

I wouldn't.  Let me decide FOR MYSELF what emotion I want my character to have.

Whoever thought that autodialog was a good idea in a roleplaying game deserves to be covered in honey and buried up to their neck next to an anthill.

-Polaris

But that emotion is almost universally "utterly nil." You don't choose it any more than in DA2, you just have less range.

Sure you do at least as I see it.  I don't have to be told what my character does or doesn't feel.  If I am truly into my character, that will come naturally.  It is much easier to place this natural feeling into a blank sheet than it is when the game actively tries to contradict your own characterization.

Now if the character isn't your own, that's one thing, but when it is, that's another.  I have no issue with autodialogs in shooters or other games where the characterization is set, but in a roleplaying game, my character and his (or her) emotions should be entirely my own.

-Polaris

[Rawgrim]

IanPolaris wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

I'll take "forced emotion" over "standing there with your character's mouth gaping open and nothing coming out during every emotional scene".

I wouldn't.  Let me decide FOR MYSELF what emotion I want my character to have.

Whoever thought that autodialog was a good idea in a roleplaying game deserves to be covered in honey and buried up to their neck next to an anthill.

-Polaris

But that emotion is almost universally "utterly nil." You don't choose it any more than in DA2, you just have less range.

Sure you do at least as I see it.  I don't have to be told what my character does or doesn't feel.  If I am truly into my character, that will come naturally.  It is much easier to place this natural feeling into a blank sheet than it is when the game actively tries to contradict your own characterization.

Now if the character isn't your own, that's one thing, but when it is, that's another.  I have no issue with autodialogs in shooters or other games where the characterization is set, but in a roleplaying game, my character and his (or her) emotions should be entirely my own.

-Polaris

Spot on. also: If the character isn`t you own, its not really roleplaying. You just play through a game with a character that someone else has made for you.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Rawgrim wrote...
Spot on. also: If the character isn`t you own, its not really roleplaying. You just play through a game with a character that someone else has made for you.

Except it's never "your character". It's "your character within the confines of the options the developers give you". This myth that the voiceless games somehow gave you the ability to roleplay anyone and anything with any emotion you could dream up is just silly.

[IanPolaris]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Spot on. also: If the character isn`t you own, its not really roleplaying. You just play through a game with a character that someone else has made for you.

Except it's never "your character". It's "your character within the confines of the options the developers give you". This myth that the voiceless games somehow gave you the ability to roleplay anyone and anything with any emotion you could dream up is just silly.

It is STILL your character.  The same is true for tabletop roleplaying.  The DM may tell you that some options aren't available for his world (no superheroes in a fantasy campaign), but within that it is YOUR CHARACTER.

Bioware seems to have forgotten this in recent years.

-Polaris

[Gangster No.1]

If I have to choose between more spot-on replies like in DA:O and being mute, and DA2's auto dialog, I vote for DA2. It's not perfect, but far better than playing the outdated mute protagonist.

[New Display Name]

ME1*, ME2, ME3, and DA2 all had autodialog. It's probably here to stay.

*In the form of dialog "options" all leading to Shepard saying the exact same thing

[Paul E Dangerously]

IanPolaris wrote...
It is STILL your character.  The same is true for tabletop roleplaying.  The DM may tell you that some options aren't available for his world (no superheroes in a fantasy campaign), but within that it is YOUR CHARACTER.

Bioware seems to have forgotten this in recent years.

-Polaris

Except in a tabletop game you're generally free to make up what isn't restricted by the DM - background, character motivations, your reaction to a scene, interaction with companions, and the like. You don't really have the same freedom in a computer game.

Don't even give me that "recent years" business. The Baldur's Gate series has a 'set' character, and it's one of the finest RPGs ever produced in the genre.

ME3 might have gone too far, but DA2 was just fine. I saw no real problem with my character saying the occasional line that was - shocklingly - in line with most of the dialogue I'd chosen.

[Barquiel]

I think it was ok in DA2 and ME3. Especially in ME3, Shepard feels more alive to me...while she was nothing but an emotionless hollow shell throughout most of ME2.

Modifié par Barquiel, 21 février 2013 - 09:47 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

TristanHawke wrote...

Please?

signed

[Face of Evil]

Rawgrim wrote...

Says "May Andraste guide you" etc after killing people.

That's combat dialogue. It was present in Dragon Age: Origins too.

If that's the standard we're using to describe auto-dialogue, then this thread is doomed to failure. They're not going to have the main character as a totally silent mime.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 février 2013 - 10:05 .

[Barquiel]

simfamSP wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I think it was ok in DA2 and ME3. Especially in ME3, Shepard feels more alive to me...while she was nothing but an emotionless hollow shell throughout most of ME2.

I'm not sure you're getting the point of a roleplaying game. It's not about how many points you can put in 'big weapons' or what armour you're putting on. It's about playing the role you design, those stats and crap are there to help you build the way.

Though in ME3 Shepard was a good character, he was so out of my control, that playing *my* Shepard was nigh impossible.

No matter how hard I try, Shepard is an emotional brick in ME2. Of course I didn't know that this is the point of a roleplaying game...playing an emotionless hollow shell. Thank you for explaining it to me...

Shepard died! Meh...I got better. It's barely mentioned after the first five minutes.
Sole survivors and Cerberus? nothing
Not to mention the reunion scenes with Liara and the VS.

I rather prefer some "forced emotions" here and there.

Modifié par Barquiel, 21 février 2013 - 10:03 .

[Face of Evil]

Barquiel wrote...

I rather prefer some "forced emotions" here and there.

Guard: Sorry, elf, the Alienage is closed. There was a purge and they're still cleaning up the bodies. Can't go in.

Me: Oh no, that's horrible! My dad! Shianni!

The Warden: (blank-faced stare) .....

....

....

I should go.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 21 février 2013 - 10:07 .

[wright1978]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

For me, it's not that I ever entertained the delusion that I had 100% control over every aspect of my character. My issue was that ME3 had too much unnecessary and petty encroachment on my character's motivations. Such encroachments in ME3 in most cases had nothing to do with the plot and everything to do with "having fewer options is easier and makes cinematic features last longer with fewer interruptions."

Yeah i value the player characterised protaganist model while fully accepting their will be limits to that control. ME3 unfortunately wanted to replace player's character with their a defined version of Shep. It was rather horrendous imo.

[KiwiQuiche]

Barquiel wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I think it was ok in DA2 and ME3. Especially in ME3, Shepard feels more alive to me...while she was nothing but an emotionless hollow shell throughout most of ME2.

I'm not sure you're getting the point of a roleplaying game. It's not about how many points you can put in 'big weapons' or what armour you're putting on. It's about playing the role you design, those stats and crap are there to help you build the way.

Though in ME3 Shepard was a good character, he was so out of my control, that playing *my* Shepard was nigh impossible.

No matter how hard I try, Shepard is an emotional brick in ME2. Of course I didn't know that this is the point of a roleplaying game...playing an emotionless hollow shell. Thank you for explaining it to me...

Shepard died! Meh...I got better. It's barely mentioned after the first five minutes.
Sole survivors and Cerberus? nothing
Not to mention the reunion scenes with Liara and the VS.

I rather prefer some "forced emotions" here and there.

I prefer a brick than a wangsting mess we got in ME3. Especially when Shepard started verbally attacking everyone via autodialogue after Thessia. Yeah no.

DA2 was kinda alright, since the autodialogue went with your 'common' response.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Rawgrim wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

If the character isn`t meant to be mine in the first place (Shep + Hawke), I just don`t care anymore.They might as well just remove dialogue enteirely and go for cutscenes instead.

There was auto dialogue with Hawke, I am pretty sure there was auto dialogue in Mass Effect 2 as well, it was just overdone in Mass Effect 3, otherwise every sentence the character says would be a prompt and would make the game flow like a brick.

It was overdone in DA2 as well. Hawke yelling for andraste and whatsnot. I`d like to decide for myself what my character says to people, or wether or not he or she is religious or not.

When does Hawke ever do that?

Says "May Andraste guide you" etc after killing people.

I say BioWare should just get rid of the stupid battlecries period. None of them were especially good in DA:O (yes I know I have one quoted in my sig, but it's there for laughs; it's the worst one of the lot in my opinion, after "My Warden sense is tingling!"). They were repeated constantly in combat without much variety for any individual Warden voice. They were 99% pure ham and narm.

In ME2 they were also pretty lame. "Gravity's a mean mother!" and Jack's Biotic b***h line both make me cringe. Earlier than either of these IP's you had KOTOR where there were tolerable lines like "The Force fights with me!" and "Down you go!", but then you also had the absolutely painful Juhani line, "I vill be your DOOOOM!!" Ugh.

Getting rid of them would serve two purposes:

1. Pleasing people like me who hate them and find that they're badly written, horribly delivered by the voice actors, and serve no purpose beyond providing unintentional comedy the first few times you hear them.
2. Pleasing people who don't want the battlecries to railroad the player characters into being something they don't feel the character is (e.g. religious).

I say at the very least BioWare should give us an option to toggle battlecries on and off like we can with the silly, bad-looking blood splatter effect or the appearance of helmets on Hawke in DA2. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.

[fchopin]

Auto-dialogue means you are playing a set character so if that is what Bioware is going for that is fine.

If PC is player made then there should not be any auto-dialogue.

[esper]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

If the character isn`t meant to be mine in the first place (Shep + Hawke), I just don`t care anymore.They might as well just remove dialogue enteirely and go for cutscenes instead.

There was auto dialogue with Hawke, I am pretty sure there was auto dialogue in Mass Effect 2 as well, it was just overdone in Mass Effect 3, otherwise every sentence the character says would be a prompt and would make the game flow like a brick.

It was overdone in DA2 as well. Hawke yelling for andraste and whatsnot. I`d like to decide for myself what my character says to people, or wether or not he or she is religious or not.

When does Hawke ever do that?

Says "May Andraste guide you" etc after killing people.

I say BioWare should just get rid of the stupid battlecries period. None of them were especially good in DA:O (yes I know I have one quoted in my sig, but it's there for laughs; it's the worst one of the lot in my opinion, after "My Warden sense is tingling!"). They were repeated constantly in combat without much variety for any individual Warden voice. They were 99% pure ham and narm.

In ME2 they were also pretty lame. "Gravity's a mean mother!" and Jack's Biotic b***h line both make me cringe. Earlier than either of these IP's you had KOTOR where there were tolerable lines like "The Force fights with me!" and "Down you go!", but then you also had the absolutely painful Juhani line, "I vill be your DOOOOM!!" Ugh.

Getting rid of them would serve two purposes:

1. Pleasing people like me who hate them and find that they're badly written, horribly delivered by the voice actors, and serve no purpose beyond providing unintentional comedy the first few times you hear them.
2. Pleasing people who don't want the battlecries to railroad the player characters into being something they don't feel the character is (e.g. religious).

I say at the very least BioWare should give us an option to toggle battlecries on and off like we can with the silly, bad-looking blood splatter effect or the appearance of helmets on Hawke in DA2. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.

It sounded like bioware is going to in general make the battles cries more reactive to what happens in battle and less random, which is good. Being one-liners is also excuse by some companion characters (like Varric and his dragon *** line in legacy) because it is in character.

But I have never felt so pleased as I was, playing on the PS3 with a female and having her say nothing in battle.

Generally, though, I think delegating the one-liners to what happens in battle a better.