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[Fast Jimmy]

As has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere, Gaider said there will be no more auto dialogue in DA3 than there was in DA2. If you didn't have problems with DA2's auto dialogue (or if you did), then we have been told you should feel the same about the amount seen in DA3.

[Paradosi]

Auto-dialogue rubs me someway awful. When I'm playing the role of a character, I want to be in control of what he says. If he starts blabbing on his own, how am I supposed to stay immersed?

While Hawke wasn't as bad as ME3 Shepard, he constantly said something completely out of left field. Makes me feel like I'm not the one on the reins, which kind of fools the whole point of an RPG.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Paradosi wrote...

Auto-dialogue rubs me someway awful. When I'm playing the role of a character, I want to be in control of what he says. If he starts blabbing on his own, how am I supposed to stay immersed?

While Hawke wasn't as bad as ME3 Shepard, he constantly said something completely out of left field. Makes me feel like I'm not the one on the reins, which kind of fools the whole point of an RPG.

This!!!!

Hawke was awful and auto-dialogue is too.

[Knight of Dane]

I didn't mind it in Dragon Age 2 as it for the most part assumed the role of your most common response method.

[Redbelle]

Paradosi wrote...

Auto-dialogue rubs me someway awful. When I'm playing the role of a character, I want to be in control of what he says. If he starts blabbing on his own, how am I supposed to stay immersed?

While Hawke wasn't as bad as ME3 Shepard, he constantly said something completely out of left field. Makes me feel like I'm not the one on the reins, which kind of fools the whole point of an RPG.

I think the key phrase in all of this is "Role Playing Game".

Or more specifically, An RPG, 'as made by BioWare'.

BW's creation of the dialogue wheel was a great innovation to the world of RPGing as it gave player's the chance to continue developing character's. Previous RPG's only allowed you to decide what to wear/weapon's to equip/who your companion's are etc (exception's to the rule may apply but still.......)

BW gave the player more control in their RPG's in that they allowed the player multiple responses, and with ME and it's cinematic overtones + Dialogue wheel it gave player's the chance to build not only the capabilities of the character, but extended taht to developing the personality of the character. Which for an RPG is pretty immersive.

Crippling this mechanic with auto dialogue is a step backwards in game design and having seen what is capable in BW games that owe alot to the companies RPG root's I'd like to see them develop the RPG element of their games. Not take a step backwards to be more like generic shooters. BW needs to maintain it's identity in the console market and making RPG games feel more like console game by stripping away element's of the game that makes it a BW game is a poor long term strategy given that many have stated that they like BW games but have issue's with their latest releases that, last time it happened, caused a massive backlash whose effect's live on today.

BW know how to make RPG's. The only thing they need are 'the vision thing', imagination and the time to assemble all the aspect's of a game properly. Auto Dialogue seem's to indicate that someone has sat down, looked at the development time available, realised they didn't have the time to do all they wanted so cut multiple response's down and replaced it with automatic script read performance's.

Auto Dialogue has it's place in high action fast paced segment's. But not when it's quiet time and I have the leeway to develop my character my way.

[Fast Jimmy]

Redbelle wrote...

BW's creation of the dialogue wheel was a great innovation to the world of RPGing as it gave player's the chance to continue developing character's. Previous RPG's only allowed you to decide what to wear/weapon's to equip/who your companion's are etc (exception's to the rule may apply but still.......)

By this statement, I feel completely validated in saying you have zero idea what you are talking about.

For one, RPGs that offered numerous, branching dialogue existed before Bioware. In addition, Bioware was making RPGs that offered way more choice than the games they currently make nearly a decade before the dialogue wheel was even invented.

So... forgive me for dismissing pretty much everything you said out of hand. 

[t1striker]

All I know is my all strait shepherd hit on Kaiden with a dialog choice that did not reflect that at all. That's not exactly auto dialog(or really at all kind of off topic) but I hate the one(or few) word choices I'd much rather have it back the Da:o way.

[Asch Lavigne]

DA3's auto dialogue would not be as bad as ME3's because we are playing a new character. Not one we were for two games then had ripped from our hands. It won't have the same affect. That said, I would prefer more control over what my character says than auto-dialogue for sure. Thoygh I stil wish DA2 didn't rip off ME and instead kept the dialogue system from Origins, just voice it.

Though DA needs to stop taking a lot from ME period. The dialogue system, the way you shop, lack of equipping companions, for some examples, all were in ME first. DA needs to stand on its own and stop taking things from ME, especially things people don't particuarly like. But this is a different topic.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 21 février 2013 - 01:57 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

Asch Lavigne wrote...
Though DA needs to stop taking a lot from ME period. The dialogue system, the way you shop, lack of equipping companions, for some examples, all were in ME first. DA needs to stand on its own and stop taking things from ME, especially things people don't particuarly like. But this is a different topic.

Out of everything, the shop bothers you that much? Having a chest next to the NPC instead of talking to an NPC is really that much of a sticking point?

DA2 also let you equip much more onto your party members than ME did. The only thing you couldn't do was make them dress-up dolls like you could in Origins, but that's back to a degree for DA:I.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...
Though DA needs to stop taking a lot from ME period. The dialogue system, the way you shop, lack of equipping companions, for some examples, all were in ME first. DA needs to stand on its own and stop taking things from ME, especially things people don't particuarly like. But this is a different topic.

Out of everything, the shop bothers you that much? Having a chest next to the NPC instead of talking to an NPC is really that much of a sticking point?

DA2 also let you equip much more onto your party members than ME did. The only thing you couldn't do was make them dress-up dolls like you could in Origins, but that's back to a degree for DA:I.

In ME1, you could equip hundreds of different types of guns, armors and various upgrades to your companions, with just as much flexibility and detail as seen in more standard RPGs, like DA:O. 

DA2, with its one-upgrade armor, and letting you equip various weapons and accessories, is nearly identical to ME3.

[Asch Lavigne]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...
Though DA needs to stop taking a lot from ME period. The dialogue system, the way you shop, lack of equipping companions, for some examples, all were in ME first. DA needs to stand on its own and stop taking things from ME, especially things people don't particuarly like. But this is a different topic.

Out of everything, the shop bothers you that much? Having a chest next to the NPC instead of talking to an NPC is really that much of a sticking point?

DA2 also let you equip much more onto your party members than ME did. The only thing you couldn't do was make them dress-up dolls like you could in Origins, but that's back to a degree for DA:I.

The shop thing didn't bug me. I was just mentioning that it was yet another thing DA took from ME instead of developing on its own.

[Sanunes]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

DA3's auto dialogue would not be as bad as ME3's because we are playing a new character. Not one we were for two games then had ripped from our hands. It won't have the same affect. That said, I would prefer more control over what my character says than auto-dialogue for sure. Thoygh I stil wish DA2 didn't rip off ME and instead kept the dialogue system from Origins, just voice it.

The problem is they want to make the game accessible to more people and having text that small can be a big problem to those playing on a console.  

[Fast Jimmy]

Sanunes wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

DA3's auto dialogue would not be as bad as ME3's because we are playing a new character. Not one we were for two games then had ripped from our hands. It won't have the same affect. That said, I would prefer more control over what my character says than auto-dialogue for sure. Thoygh I stil wish DA2 didn't rip off ME and instead kept the dialogue system from Origins, just voice it.

The problem is they want to make the game accessible to more people and having text that small can be a big problem to those playing on a console.  

As a console player, I never had a problem reading any text in DA:O. Yet I STRAIN to read the subtitles in DA2 (and most other games). So I say that even text size took a step back.

[Sanunes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...
Though DA needs to stop taking a lot from ME period. The dialogue system, the way you shop, lack of equipping companions, for some examples, all were in ME first. DA needs to stand on its own and stop taking things from ME, especially things people don't particuarly like. But this is a different topic.

Out of everything, the shop bothers you that much? Having a chest next to the NPC instead of talking to an NPC is really that much of a sticking point?

DA2 also let you equip much more onto your party members than ME did. The only thing you couldn't do was make them dress-up dolls like you could in Origins, but that's back to a degree for DA:I.

In ME1, you could equip hundreds of different types of guns, armors and various upgrades to your companions, with just as much flexibility and detail as seen in more standard RPGs, like DA:O. 

DA2, with its one-upgrade armor, and letting you equip various weapons and accessories, is nearly identical to ME3.

The only identical thing they have to Mass Effect is that the character looks don't change and that is something because people want more details or want character to look different.  Look back at Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins from the neck down most of the chacters look identical, with the sequels there are different body types for different characters.

To me they aren't near identical, with Dragon Age you can change your gear anywhere, you don't have to go back to Hawke's mansion and do it there, they don't have accessories in Mass Effect, and being nearly identical to Mass Effect 3 to me means that Mass Effect "took" it from Dragon Age.

[Fast Jimmy]

and being nearly identical to Mass Effect 3 to me means that Mass Effect "took" it from Dragon Age.

It shouldn't.

Fallout 1 + 2's dialogue list are nearly identical to those of Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment. That doesn't mean they deliberately stole the idea or took it from those games (mostly because Fallout 1 wasn't the first game to do it, either).

[Medhia Nox]

@IanPolaris/Rawgrim: I'm curious - did you tabletop RP before computer game roleplaying?

The freedom tabletop gaming allows makes it very hard for me to accept voice acting and pre-chosen actions and dialogue - so I was just curious.

For me - video game RPGs are going in the opposite direction I want (more scripted events telling people how to think).

[Sutekh]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

As has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere, Gaider said there will be no more auto dialogue in DA3 than there was in DA2. If you didn't have problems with DA2's auto dialogue (or if you did), then we have been told you should feel the same about the amount seen in DA3.

Can I be blindly optimistic and interpret that as "there could be less autodialog in DA3"? 

--

Face of Evil wrote...

Guard: Sorry, elf, the Alienage is closed. There was a purge and they're still cleaning up the bodies. Can't go in.

Me: Oh no, that's horrible! My dad! Shianni!

The Warden: (blank-faced stare) .....

....

....

I should go.

I see the problem there, but I'd rather have an additional dialog with two or three possible reactions than the (most likely / logical) horrified expression or exclamation that would have been given by auto-dialog. This way, if I want to play an evil bastard who rejoices at the possible slaughter of their family, I can.

The main problem with AD is that it assumes a default behavior which isn't always in line with what we envision. When it is, it's not a problem, but when it clashes, it's really, really bad. And, unless you're extremely lucky, it's bound to clash at some point(s).

Modifié par Sutekh, 21 février 2013 - 02:31 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Sutekh wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

As has been discussed earlier in this thread and elsewhere, Gaider said there will be no more auto dialogue in DA3 than there was in DA2. If you didn't have problems with DA2's auto dialogue (or if you did), then we have been told you should feel the same about the amount seen in DA3.

Can I be blindly optimistic and interpret that as "there could be less autodialog in DA3"? 

You COULD, I suppose... but I don't think I would recommend it.

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I've only had issues with autodialogue in one or two places in DA2, and ultimately, I feel that both it and ME3 worked it out very well. All right, ME3 annoyed me in a couple places as well, such as whining in somewhat the wrong manner about Earth, but I never had any problems with Thessia... and, to be honest, am not unhappy about them trimming resources away from "be a total jerk" options.

[IanPolaris]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@IanPolaris/Rawgrim: I'm curious - did you tabletop RP before computer game roleplaying?

The freedom tabletop gaming allows makes it very hard for me to accept voice acting and pre-chosen actions and dialogue - so I was just curious.

For me - video game RPGs are going in the opposite direction I want (more scripted events telling people how to think).

Yes, I first played DnD back when it was pamphets back in 1975, so that does influence my perspective I admit.

-Polaris

[Gibb_Shepard]

ChandlerL wrote...

I imagine what it would be like if we had stop to choose every word.

Are you being sarcastic? If not; mother of god.

[David Gaider]

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

Modifié par David Gaider, 21 février 2013 - 04:05 .

[LinksOcarina]

Someone should quote that and put in the known information thread real quick.

[WardenWade]

Face of Evil wrote...

Guard: Sorry, elf, the Alienage is closed. There was a purge and they're still cleaning up the bodies. Can't go in.

Me: Oh no, that's horrible! My dad! Shianni!

The Warden: (blank-faced stare) .....

....

....

I should go.

Opinions definitely vary over the presentation of the Warden vs. Hawke   In the interest of accuracy I just wanted to add that a city elf Warden has the option to scream "But I'm from the alienage!" when you meet the guard telling you about the purge, before you can enter the alienage.  There is not a cutscene, etc., linked to it but the Warden can express shock and grief.

Modifié par WardenWade, 21 février 2013 - 04:12 .

[Zkyire]

David Gaider wrote...

I understand that people who didn't like the "auto-dialogue" (as some like to call it-- I never have, and I find it a bit vague as to what people are referring to when they mention this) in ME3 might be concerned about how it's going to be done in DA3. I suppose there's always an assumption that whatever game BioWare put out last, its next game is going to follow suit even if a completely different team within the company made it. Not everyone knows that, and that's fine.

As I've said previously when the subject came up, DA3 won't use auto-dialogue any more than it previously did. If there are lines being spoken by the player without prompt, they're either "neutral" lines that occur during a cutscene ("What do you mean?") or occur as a result of something you've already chosen. There are reasons why, in fact, there might be less auto-dialogue than in DA2, but I won't go into them as that would require explanations which cannot occur yet.

If, however, you dislike the PC from ever speaking a single line you haven't directly chosen, then you've come to the wrong place. That's not going to happen.

An example would be in ME3 with Shepard's chastisement of Joker post-Thesia, regardless of how the individual player's Shepard would actually react.