532 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

And if the DA team came out tomorrow and said they will be moving the planned release date back into 2014, all my worries would go away. Well, it would bring to mind concerns that people on this board and elsewhere are already fanning the flames on in regards to TW3 and DA3 being at war with each other with close release dates... but it would soothe concerns about the game either not being ready or the gaming community at large missing the release, for lack of a better phrase.

I don't understand why moving an arbitrary release date would assuage all your concerns, though. 

We don't even know what the game is like, now. We haven't seen a single screenshot or second of gameplay footage. How on earth can you possibly make a judgement about the state it's in now, the readiness of the game to be shipped, or suggest that it's on track to be a rushed job if released in late 2013?

Surely the most appropriate time to gauge whether the game is ready is when we've actually seen it? I just can't understand why there's even a reason for concern at this point. "Pre-emptive concern just in case" strikes me as extraordinarily pessimistic. 

[Fast Jimmy]

<sigh>

As I've said many times, I'm not making a judgment, I'm discussing a risk. 

Anywhere in my posts, do you see me saying "DA3 is not ready, the game is doomed?" No. Because I am expressing concern over the POSSIBILITY. I don't know. You don't know. Heck, I'd say even most Bioware employees aside from Mark and Mike don't KNOW know. 

But given what we do know, the powers that be that would make the call if the game is ready to show says it isn't right now. And that it won't be for PAX East, at the end of March. 

To move out the projected holiday release date means the game doesn't have to fight with next gen console launches (which we know at least the PS4 is going to be coming out the same time) as well as big name heavy hitters which will accompany the next gen console launches. It also means that if the game isn't polished enough to show anyone to give a good idea what your game is like nine months before release, then pushing out that release to a close to a full year can only reduce the risk that the game is not fully finished at launch. 

After all, how many tweets and posts have we seen that they had to build all tools and systems from scratch for the Frostbite 2 conversion? A process which, as far as we can tell, ended towards the end of 2012, hinting that content has possibly only been created in-game for less than six months.

If any of that is true (it may very well not be), then that could mean that there is still a monumental amount of work to be done, which could be helped with a later release date. If it isn't true, a later release date would help to not compete not just big name game releases, but new console releases, which will stretch gamer's dollars more thin than the highly competitive holiday release slot already is.

In a nut shell - if the promotion train won't start before late Spring, I'd say it would be much less risky to go for a 2014 release date.

Can that risk be overcome? Of course. But it is still risky.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 25 février 2013 - 02:20 .

[Volus Warlord]

People won't care if the game is particularly well polished if it goes with a new console launch. It will (obviously) have to be functional, but a new console makes people more flexible in what they will try and tolerate and what they won't.

[tishyw]

If Bioware are going to PAX East but aren't going to be talking about DA:I, then what are they going to be talking about? They don't have any other games on the horizon that I'm aware of.
Why are they going if they're not talking DA:I? It seems very strange to me ...

[Volus Warlord]

tishyw wrote...

If Bioware are going to PAX East but aren't going to be talking about DA:I, then what are they going to be talking about? They don't have any other games on the horizon that I'm aware of.
Why are they going if they're not talking DA:I? It seems very strange to me ...

They may just be making an obligatory appearance to remind us they still exist. 

They are making plans for a fourth Mass Effect of some sort, as well as one additional game which is currently a question mark. They may give some detail for ME4 or unveil, if only in part, their new game plan.

[Fast Jimmy]

tishyw wrote...

If Bioware are going to PAX East but aren't going to be talking about DA:I, then what are they going to be talking about? They don't have any other games on the horizon that I'm aware of.
Why are they going if they're not talking DA:I? It seems very strange to me ...

I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. I also believe that Laidlaw is going to be presenting there talking in a game design capacity, but as a gaming industry expert, not in a "revealing info about DA3" sense. 

[Volus Warlord]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. 

Oh God. WHY? 

There is about a million better things he could do!

He could unveil a new character, or hint at character(s), or speak about the setting, or flash some concept art, or, well, anything.

Instead, he chooses that subject. DAMMIT!

[The Hierophant]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. 

Oh God. WHY? 

There is about a million better things he could do!

He could unveil a new character, or hint at character(s), or speak about the setting, or flash some concept art, or, well, anything.

Instead, he chooses that subject. DAMMIT!

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

[Volus Warlord]

The Hierophant wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. 

Oh God. WHY? 

There is about a million better things he could do!

He could unveil a new character, or hint at character(s), or speak about the setting, or flash some concept art, or, well, anything.

Instead, he chooses that subject. DAMMIT!

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

Stop. You are trolling. You have to be trolling me. And it's working. Dammit.

I can understand why Gaider would feel this would need to be addressed, given all the emphasis it receives on our forums.

That being said, when looking through my Pessimist Foresight goggles, I do not see a positive outcome of him doing this. 

If he says "ra ra romance it's a symbol of equality and a core element of our games" or some crap along those lines, it will ****** off and alienate the people that don't buy into that. Like me.

If he says "I believe a vocal minority overemphasizes romance to the point of being detrimental to everything else" he will ****** of and alienate the romance fanatics.

If he tries to pull some middle ground, he will ****** off everyone. There isn't one. Not here, anyway.

If he says nothing really profound or relevant (essentially BSing) he will also ****** off everyone. Everyone will be looking for some assurance and they won't get it.

Damn it. I am not looking forward to this.

[Steppenwolf]

Volus Warlord wrote...

People won't care if the game is particularly well polished if it goes with a new console launch. It will (obviously) have to be functional, but a new console makes people more flexible in what they will try and tolerate and what they won't.

Launch titles have low sales and never have lenghty lives in the sales department. If DA3 is going to be next-gen exclusive then Bioware's only hope of beating DA2's sales would rely on releasing well after the consoles launch. The Holiday season the year after console launches is when third-party titles really start selling.

Modifié par BasilKarlo, 25 février 2013 - 03:44 .

[jillabender]

Volus Warlord wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. 

Oh God. WHY? 

There is about a million better things he could do!

He could unveil a new character, or hint at character(s), or speak about the setting, or flash some concept art, or, well, anything.

Instead, he chooses that subject. DAMMIT!

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

Stop. You are trolling. You have to be trolling me. And it's working. Dammit.

I can understand why Gaider would feel this would need to be addressed, given all the emphasis it receives on our forums.

That being said, when looking through my Pessimist Foresight goggles, I do not see a positive outcome of him doing this. 

If he says "ra ra romance it's a symbol of equality and a core element of our games" or some crap along those lines, it will ****** off and alienate the people that don't buy into that. Like me.

If he says "I believe a vocal minority overemphasizes romance to the point of being detrimental to everything else" he will ****** of and alienate the romance fanatics.

If he tries to pull some middle ground, he will ****** off everyone. There isn't one. Not here, anyway.

If he says nothing really profound or relevant (essentially BSing) he will also ****** off everyone. Everyone will be looking for some assurance and they won't get it.

Damn it. I am not looking forward to this.

I can understand your frustration - with how heated the discussions about romance and sexuality on these forums can get at times, it's easy to be left with the feeling that they never go anywhere good.

I would also say that while I think David Gaider is a really cool person, I think even he would admit that he's not especially diplomatic. He's often snarky, and he's often blunt to the point of being abrasive.

But I don't necessarily have a problem with that - given the mountain of criticism that he has to deal with, it would be surprising if he didn't get snarky sometimes!

Personally, I appreciate his wit and even his sarcasm - there's no bull**** or insincerity about him, and I think that even the people who express the most frustration toward him appreciate that on some level. I've noticed that many of the people who express the most frustration with him and with BioWare in general continue to engage him in conversations, and I think that's partly because, on some level, they appreciate that he's willing to be straight with them, instead of just telling them what they want to hear.

In short, I've found that David Gaider does have some funny and thoughtful things to say on his blog about romance in games, and even if I don't always see things the way he does, I appreciate that he's candid enough to say things like "we'll do our best to make the most enjoyable game possible, but if 'x' is really important to your enjoyment, you might be disappointed" (that's a paraphrase, of course).

Modifié par jillabender, 27 février 2013 - 11:27 .

[ElitePinecone]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

tishyw wrote...

If Bioware are going to PAX East but aren't going to be talking about DA:I, then what are they going to be talking about? They don't have any other games on the horizon that I'm aware of.
Why are they going if they're not talking DA:I? It seems very strange to me ...

I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. I also believe that Laidlaw is going to be presenting there talking in a game design capacity, but as a gaming industry expert, not in a "revealing info about DA3" sense. 

Gaider is presenting at GDC, not PAX East, but for some inexplicable reason they're being held at the same time. His talk is in the context of briefing other game developers on topics in the industry, so it's about sexism/sexuality's effects on the public perception of the company, sales, etc. 

Mike Laidlaw is so far the only developer confirmed to be going to PAX East, as far as I know, so it's possible Bioware may not even have a panel there. He may just be going to appear on another panel, or for Dark Horse etc.

We'll just have to wait and see. For the other PAXes last year, even when they hadn't announced DA3 officially, Bioware still used them to discuss the development of their next DA game - something like that could happen this time also. 

[IanPolaris]

The Hierophant wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


I know Gaider is going to be talking about romance and sexuality in video games. 

Oh God. WHY? 

There is about a million better things he could do!

He could unveil a new character, or hint at character(s), or speak about the setting, or flash some concept art, or, well, anything.

Instead, he chooses that subject. DAMMIT!

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

Nobody take this bet.  We already know that Bioware came out in full offense mode and essentially called all those that criticized the "Hawkesexual" model for romances as "homophobic bigots".  Some of the critics were, but many were not, but it sure didn't stop the broad brush.

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

Wasn't that the reason given for why the developers felt Tallis wasn't well liked by women?

[Dutchess]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

Wasn't that the reason given for why the developers felt Tallis wasn't well liked by women?

What, really? That it has boobs is the last reason I have to hate that character.


As for the original topic: I haven't really followed other games pre-release (DA2 for the last few weeks or something), so I'm not an expert. But CDPR's handling of TW3's announcement does come across as more straightforward and honest. It sounds... nicer than Bioware locking themself up in their basement and refusing to say anything yet. With the current image they struggle with it wouldn't hurt for them to appear a bit more sympathetic. I honestly don't mean this as an attack. I'm just describing the way I feel about both companies' approaches, and so far CDPR definitely has my preference.

[Lennard Testarossa]

renjility wrote...
It sounds... nicer than Bioware locking themself up in their basement and refusing to say anything yet.

CDPR has received vast amounts of fan love for TW2 and has the unconditional trust of its fans right now, while Bioware received lots of hate for DA 2 and ME 3. Part of that hate was due to unfulfilled promises. The apporach they seem to be taking this time is not to promise things they think they'll include but might not be able to include. Given that any unheld promise is likely to create quite a bit of backlash, I think this is a reasonable approach.

[Conduit0]

renjility wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

I get the feeling that if the game  isn't well received that Bio will use sexism as an excuse. 

Wasn't that the reason given for why the developers felt Tallis wasn't well liked by women?

What, really? That it has boobs is the last reason I have to hate that character.


As for the original topic: I haven't really followed other games pre-release (DA2 for the last few weeks or something), so I'm not an expert. But CDPR's handling of TW3's announcement does come across as more straightforward and honest. It sounds... nicer than Bioware locking themself up in their basement and refusing to say anything yet. With the current image they struggle with it wouldn't hurt for them to appear a bit more sympathetic. I honestly don't mean this as an attack. I'm just describing the way I feel about both companies' approaches, and so far CDPR definitely has my preference.

CDPR doesn't have a fan base that twists every word you say into something negative just so they have an excuse to cry foul either.

[IanPolaris]

Conduit0 wrote...

CDPR doesn't have a fan base that twists every word you say into something negative just so they have an excuse to cry foul either.

CDPR hasn't given their fans a reason to distrust them, nor have they gone to war against their fans calling them entitled or worse BEFORE the fans turned on them.

Bioware did all that (and worse) both for DA2 and ME3.

-Polaris

[David Gaider]

ElitePinecone wrote...
Gaider is presenting at GDC, not PAX East, but for some inexplicable reason they're being held at the same time. His talk is in the context of briefing other game developers on topics in the industry, so it's about sexism/sexuality's effects on the public perception of the company, sales, etc.

Indeed. GDC is a developer conference where I'll be talking to other developers. If someone doesn't care for the topic, my suggestion would be to not pay attention to it (if GDC talks are even available to the public; I'm not sure they are). GDC certainly wouldn't be the place to go and advertise upcoming releases, at any rate.

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
Gaider is presenting at GDC, not PAX East, but for some inexplicable reason they're being held at the same time. His talk is in the context of briefing other game developers on topics in the industry, so it's about sexism/sexuality's effects on the public perception of the company, sales, etc.

Indeed. GDC is a developer conference where I'll be talking to other developers. If someone doesn't care for the topic, my suggestion would be to not pay attention to it (if GDC talks are even available to the public; I'm not sure they are). GDC certainly wouldn't be the place to go and advertise upcoming releases, at any rate.

You could do a tumblr with some of the talking points from your GDC presentation!


[edit]
From the article you linked on twitter, the description of "How much responsibility do we have in addressing issues of sexism and sexuality, and are we inadvertently making statements about what is acceptable, even when we don’t mean to say anything at all? Our industry is struggling with a conflict between the desire to be taken seriously as an art form, and the desire to avoid addressing social issues because what we make are 'just games,' " was very interesting, so I'd like to actually read/see the presentation.

I tend to think of Bioware as a progressive company, and you all have certainly taken stances on issues as you've been forced to, but I do wonder if, had the decision been left up to you, would you prefer the games' content to speak for itself, rather than having to come out and make statements about it.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 25 février 2013 - 08:34 .

[Conduit0]

IanPolaris wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

CDPR doesn't have a fan base that twists every word you say into something negative just so they have an excuse to cry foul either.

CDPR hasn't given their fans a reason to distrust them, nor have they gone to war against their fans calling them entitled or worse BEFORE the fans turned on them.

Bioware did all that (and worse) both for DA2 and ME3.

-Polaris

The fans most certainly turned on Bioware first, don't even try to claim otherwise, and quite frankly the majority of the most vocal fans are entitled or worse.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Conduit0 wrote...
The fans most certainly turned on Bioware first

I am curious, how does a consummer "turn on" a company exactly?
I would say accusing a company of turning on its fans for not delivering on what it said it would (and don't say that didn't happen), is more appropriate. 

[IanPolaris]

Conduit0 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

CDPR doesn't have a fan base that twists every word you say into something negative just so they have an excuse to cry foul either.

CDPR hasn't given their fans a reason to distrust them, nor have they gone to war against their fans calling them entitled or worse BEFORE the fans turned on them.

Bioware did all that (and worse) both for DA2 and ME3.

-Polaris

The fans most certainly turned on Bioware first, don't even try to claim otherwise, and quite frankly the majority of the most vocal fans are entitled or worse.

Wrong.  This isn't a matter of opinion but a matter of public record.  You had Bioware fans asking even pleading for clarification for the endings almost from the moment that ME3 was released but with the exception of a couple of usual suspects (which will always exist) there was NOT an anti-Bioware crusade.  That changed when Bioware turned on the fans after about two weeks.

-Polaris

[Mr.House]

I rather Bioware not start showing stuff till they are ready. ME2, DA2 and ME3 media spotlight before launch was horrible for many reasons. Lies, massive spoilers, contradictions, things stated that where not in the game, false staments made when teh game went gold, too many months of no details ect

I rather Bioware start doing DA3 advertising when they are 100% sure they can feed fans proper info with little blank spots(ME3 had 6 months of nothing for example after the SPike trailer and GI article which upset alot of people)