532 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dagr88 wrote...

What exactly and how much should be revealed?

Whether they release them now doesn't really concern me at all, but I would very much like to see a detailed description of the game's mechanics made available before release.

The mechanics are the backbone of the game.  Knowledge of them shouldn't be kept secret.

Names and pictures of all companions?

I count these as spoilers.  I wish they wouldn't release these at all.

[SeismicGravy]

The Hierophant wrote...
But still... Alright i'll stop Hudsoning out as it's scaring Newt.

Game over man, Game over!

Modifié par SeismicGravy, 25 février 2013 - 11:23 .

[TheBlackAdder13]

I can't believe we're even having this discussion when the devs have repeatedly said they're using a "show vs tell" approach to market the game. It's not some fricken jacked up conspiracy.

Releasing detailed info about the game mechanics, concept art, characters, plot points, etc. without showing us how they play out in game is TELLING not SHOWING. And that is the exact opposite of how they've repeatedly told us they're marketing it. It's not that hard to figure out.

I think it's a pretty good idea personally, after the DA 2 backlash, but I don't really know anything about marketing.

[ElitePinecone]

Expecting the BSN to not believe in vast conspiracies is probably asking too much, I'd think.

The show-vs-tell approach has been stated for years now. It'll be shown when it's shown, and people can judge the game then on its own merits. I really don't see what else there is to discuss - it's laughable to be worried about a game's development that we don't know a thing about.

[David7204]

What forced BioWare's hand in revealing Dragon Age III?

It's pretty obvious it happened with the next Mass Effect, given that they revealed it without knowing a damn thing about the story, judging by some of the questions they've been asking. Which I'm certain was to reassure frustrated and upset fans that they didn't intentionally set out to 'kill' the franchise.

I'm not sure if it worked.

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 02:57 .

[imbs]

ElitePinecone wrote...


The show-vs-tell approach has been stated for years now. It'll be shown when it's shown, and people can judge the game then on its own merits. I really don't see what else there is to discuss - it's laughable to be worried about a game's development that we don't know a thing about.

Except its not nearly as clear cut as you make out. Bioware have a history of hiding things till the last minute, often to the point where without a large amount of effort you infact won't be making an informed decision if you buy a Bioware game. They should relax their policies imo assuming that DA:I is good. If not then they are going the correct path. This is the line of thinking that leads one to believe it probably isnt a good thing that they are revealing nothing.

Take this comment with a grain of salt mind you, it is too early to tell atm but it isn't insignificant either.

[Volus Warlord]

David7204 wrote...

What forced BioWare's hand in revealing Dragon Age III?

It's pretty obvious it happened with the next Mass Effect, given that they revealed it without knowing a damn thing about the story, judging by some of the questions they've been asking. Which I'm certain was to reassure frustrated and upset fans that they didn't intentionally set out to 'kill' the franchise.

I'm not sure if it worked.

What forced Bioware's hand is when founders of Bioware left the company, and they wanted to give everyone some assurance that Bioware is alive and well. So they announced 3 games along with the doctor's retirement: Dragon Age 3, the next Mass Effect, and a third game that is not much is known about other than the project's existance (my best guess is an ME MMO, but that is based on next to nothing).

And here we are now. 

I doubt anyone believes that Bioware would intentionally try to kill it's own IPs, but there is some concern that they might be mucked up by any number of factors-short development schedule, marketing fiasco, and the list goes on. Frankly Bioware can do whatever the hell they want with them, but I'm sure we'd all prefer something very memorable in a good way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Releasing detailed info about the game mechanics, concept art, characters, plot points, etc. without showing us how they play out in game is TELLING not SHOWING.

There is no showing when it comes to the mechanics.  It's all data tables and formulae.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Releasing detailed info about the game mechanics, concept art, characters, plot points, etc. without showing us how they play out in game is TELLING not SHOWING.

There is no showing when it comes to the mechanics.  It's all data tables and formulae.

That souns like a terrible marketing strategy. Why would they release that? 

The important thing is how that translates in the game, hence showing. 

[Vaeliorin]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...
Releasing detailed info about the game mechanics, concept art, characters, plot points, etc. without showing us how they play out in game is TELLING not SHOWING.

There is no showing when it comes to the mechanics.  It's all data tables and formulae.

That souns like a terrible marketing strategy. Why would they release that? 

The important thing is how that translates in the game, hence showing.

It is kind of important to some of us.  Granted, it's not the type of marketing that will attract a lot of the audience Bioware wants (sadly) but it's something they could release essentially free of cost that would make those of us who care about the mechanics quite happy.  It would also give us a lot to discuss.

Also, I would say that how something related to game mechanics translates in game shouldn't be any different than how it translates to paper.  The animations are unimportant, I want the numbers and formulae.

[David7204]

Volus Warlord wrote...

David7204 wrote...

What forced BioWare's hand in revealing Dragon Age III?

It's pretty obvious it happened with the next Mass Effect, given that they revealed it without knowing a damn thing about the story, judging by some of the questions they've been asking. Which I'm certain was to reassure frustrated and upset fans that they didn't intentionally set out to 'kill' the franchise.

I'm not sure if it worked.

What forced Bioware's hand is when founders of Bioware left the company, and they wanted to give everyone some assurance that Bioware is alive and well. So they announced 3 games along with the doctor's retirement: Dragon Age 3, the next Mass Effect, and a third game that is not much is known about other than the project's existance (my best guess is an ME MMO, but that is based on next to nothing).

And here we are now. 

I doubt anyone believes that Bioware would intentionally try to kill it's own IPs, but there is some concern that they might be mucked up by any number of factors-short development schedule, marketing fiasco, and the list goes on. Frankly Bioware can do whatever the hell they want with them, but I'm sure we'd all prefer something very memorable in a good way.

There are some really goddamn stupid people on the BSN. The motive for not changing the endings changes by the day. Today, it's because BioWare is full of prideful egoists who are determined to hold onto their artistic integrity to the detriment of their product. Tomorrow, it's because EA hates RPGs and wants to have all developers focus on Call of Duty games. The day after, it's because BioWare and EA are nothing but greedy, money-grubbing scumbags who cooked up this debacle to generate press and 'force' players to buy DLC. The day after, who knows?

Modifié par David7204, 26 février 2013 - 04:11 .

[David Gaider]

David7204 wrote...
There are some really goddamn stupid people on the BSN. The motive for not changing the endings changes by the day. Today, it's because BioWare is full of prideful egoists who are determined to hold onto their artistic integrity to the detriment of their product. Tomorrow, it's because EA hates RPGs and wants to have all developers focus on Call of Duty games. The day after, it's because BioWare and EA are nothing but greedy, money-grubbing scumbags who cooked up this debacle to generate press and 'force' players to buy DLC. The day after, who knows?

Meh. You should have seen the forums before the reveal of DAO-- about two years (or two and a half?) of almost no information and endless speculation. It got to the point where some people were livid. How dare we withhold information they needed to make their purchase? Etc. etc.

And then, almost the moment we revealed, that went away... to be replaced by endless jumping to conclusions on what they'd seen, followed by annoyance at there being too much information.

Like I said before, this is pretty typical and will happen again.

We have said no official release date, only a vague target-- which can always change. If, by the time the reveal is done, someone feels they don't have enough information to make their purchase by the release date... then don't purchase it. Wait for a review from someone you trust, or whatever works for you. It's really encumbent on us to provide enough information, and that's rarely an issue once the marketing effort begins. And if you really think our information isn't reliable, then I'm not sure why you'd be asking for us to provide any-- since you don't trust it anyway.

So this really seems like a lot of angst, to be honest. Which is normal. We want to make sure what we show gives a good first impression, nothing more. Blame us for that, if you like, but that's really the extent of the conspiracy behind our silence.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 février 2013 - 05:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

That souns like a terrible marketing strategy.

I'm not saying they should publicise it.  I'm not saying it should be an important part of the marketing strategy.

Why would they release that?

Why wouldn't they?  Why is it so important to keep it a secret?

I can see why they wouldn't release it yet - they're still balancing it - but when the game comes out those mechanics should be written down in some deveoper's office.  I'd like to see them.

[ElitePinecone]

imbs wrote...

Except its not nearly as clear cut as you make out. Bioware have a history of hiding things till the last minute, often to the point where without a large amount of effort you infact won't be making an informed decision if you buy a Bioware game. They should relax their policies imo assuming that DA:I is good. If not then they are going the correct path. This is the line of thinking that leads one to believe it probably isnt a good thing that they are revealing nothing.

Take this comment with a grain of salt mind you, it is too early to tell atm but it isn't insignificant either.

I respect your caution, but I've never felt tricked or deluded by Bioware's products, only occasionally disappointed (and rather baffled by That Ending).

Mike Laidlaw has said previously that his overriding aim with the marketing for DA3 is to make sure fans know what they're getting before they buy the game, and can make an informed decision about whether Inquisition is the game for them.  Part of that is waiting until they can show actual game assets rather than leaving everything up to developer statements - as we found with ME3, letting devs talk for ages leaves open the possibility of enormously ambiguous, optimistic or just plain misleading statements. If in a month or two we can see game assets and the combat system without a dev having to explain all the innovations they've made (or improvements, even), I think it's a far better way to market the game.

Lke you say, though, it's best to take everything with a grain of salt. We won't know for sure until Bioware actually starts showing off the game.

[KiwiQuiche]

I would assume they don't make the same mistake they did with ME3- that was overhyped and given such media exposure, the devs dropping hints and insinuations, going on about how awesome it will be and how no ending will be the same and how each playthrough will be so different.

Then the actual game came out and you know the rest.

[The Heretic of Time]

I guess BioWare is going the Nintendo route with DA3, which is a good thing. Nintendo usually doesn't show anything of their games until it's almost finished. I think that's smart, because that way Nintendo can assure you that what they show you, is not only good, it's actually gonna be in the game.

Nintendo usually doesn't start the hype until they're in the last half-year of their development cycle. Maybe BioWare is doing the same with DA3.

[Savber100]

Mad? Why the frack are you guys mad? Don't you have better things in life to get upset about?

I am concerned but even then I know my concerns are still based on speculations and implications... Not worth getting angry about...

Seriously get a life if this is actually upsetting you.

[rolson00]

David Gaider wrote...

David7204 wrote...
There are some really goddamn stupid people on the BSN. The motive for not changing the endings changes by the day. Today, it's because BioWare is full of prideful egoists who are determined to hold onto their artistic integrity to the detriment of their product. Tomorrow, it's because EA hates RPGs and wants to have all developers focus on Call of Duty games. The day after, it's because BioWare and EA are nothing but greedy, money-grubbing scumbags who cooked up this debacle to generate press and 'force' players to buy DLC. The day after, who knows?

Meh. You should have seen the forums before the reveal of DAO-- about two years (or two and a half?) of almost no information and endless speculation. It got to the point where some people were livid. How dare we withhold information they needed to make their purchase? Etc. etc.

And then, almost the moment we revealed, that went away... to be replaced by endless jumping to conclusions on what they'd seen, followed by annoyance at there being too much information.

Like I said before, this is pretty typical and will happen again.

We have said no official release date, only a vague target-- which can always change. If, by the time the reveal is done, someone feels they don't have enough information to make their purchase by the release date... then don't purchase it. Wait for a review from someone you trust, or whatever works for you. It's really encumbent on us to provide enough information, and that's rarely an issue once the marketing effort begins. And if you really think our information isn't reliable, then I'm not sure why you'd be asking for us to provide any-- since you don't trust it anyway.

So this really seems like a lot of angst, to be honest. Which is normal. We want to make sure what we show gives a good first impression, nothing more. Blame us for that, if you like, but that's really the extent of the conspiracy behind our silence.

biowares far more understanding and exepting than i'd be in your shoes

[EpicBoot2daFace]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

I would assume they don't make the same mistake they did with ME3- that was overhyped and given such media exposure, the devs dropping hints and insinuations, going on about how awesome it will be and how no ending will be the same and how each playthrough will be so different.

Then the actual game came out and you know the rest.

Well, it was pretty awesome even if the endings weren't. That's better than how DA2 turned out. I remember it's media exposure quite well. I remember feeling terrible after reading literally every preview and hands-on before the game came out.

[Travie]

David Gaider wrote...

Hopefully. What typically happens is that fans are starved for information and complain (I won't even mention the years-long period that was the dry spell prior to DAO's reveal) and then, when the reveal occurs and the marketing machine kicks into overdrive, they instead pay attention to every piece of information that's released and complain that they've already heard about it.

Such is the Circle of Life in these parts, I think.

Oh lawdy, which button will we be pressing for awesome this time? 

I'm gonna go pre-write some complaints, what else is there to do? 

[LinksOcarina]

rolson00 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

David7204 wrote...
There are some really goddamn stupid people on the BSN. The motive for not changing the endings changes by the day. Today, it's because BioWare is full of prideful egoists who are determined to hold onto their artistic integrity to the detriment of their product. Tomorrow, it's because EA hates RPGs and wants to have all developers focus on Call of Duty games. The day after, it's because BioWare and EA are nothing but greedy, money-grubbing scumbags who cooked up this debacle to generate press and 'force' players to buy DLC. The day after, who knows?

Meh. You should have seen the forums before the reveal of DAO-- about two years (or two and a half?) of almost no information and endless speculation. It got to the point where some people were livid. How dare we withhold information they needed to make their purchase? Etc. etc.

And then, almost the moment we revealed, that went away... to be replaced by endless jumping to conclusions on what they'd seen, followed by annoyance at there being too much information.

Like I said before, this is pretty typical and will happen again.

We have said no official release date, only a vague target-- which can always change. If, by the time the reveal is done, someone feels they don't have enough information to make their purchase by the release date... then don't purchase it. Wait for a review from someone you trust, or whatever works for you. It's really encumbent on us to provide enough information, and that's rarely an issue once the marketing effort begins. And if you really think our information isn't reliable, then I'm not sure why you'd be asking for us to provide any-- since you don't trust it anyway.

So this really seems like a lot of angst, to be honest. Which is normal. We want to make sure what we show gives a good first impression, nothing more. Blame us for that, if you like, but that's really the extent of the conspiracy behind our silence.

biowares far more understanding and exepting than i'd be in your shoes

The company has pretty good patience with lunatics like us, all things considered.

Either that, or they just drown us out in the end. Still, at least its more realistic than the sunshine blown up our behinds by other groups trying to hold things together with tape and chewing gum. 

[Renmiri1]

And running all out of chewing gum..

Modifié par Renmiri1, 26 février 2013 - 09:08 .

[Swoopdogg]

 Personally I think it's fun to watch everyone blindly speculate about it (including myself)

[tishyw]

what do you think the chances of us getting a demo are? I really appreciated the release of the DA:2 demo even though I was still ultimately disappointed with the game.
The demo tempered my expectations.

[Fast Jimmy]

tishyw wrote...

what do you think the chances of us getting a demo are? I really appreciated the release of the DA:2 demo even though I was still ultimately disappointed with the game.
The demo tempered my expectations.

We have no info on a demo, but there has been some comments that make me think we may not get one. Dev statements to the effect of "it's nice to have things like demos, but we have to decide if we'd rather work on a demo or work on making the game the best it can be." would seem to hint that, at the very least, a demo is not a given. 

However, I think the demo will be something we won't hear about for a long, long time.