532 réponses à ce sujet

[Steppenwolf]

My job in the Air Force was basically advertisement. You know how everybody already knows that the military exists, but there's still a constant barrage of advertisements proclaiming its existence? Guess why they do that. One hint- it's not because doing the opposite is successful.

[Conduit0]

Fortlowe wrote...

I'm starting a new DA2 play through (Yup. I like the game). I remember there was an expansion planned for it, that got canned. The agitation about when we'll be getting some info about DA:I, is almost tangible. And it's starting to look like we're in for a really long wait. The expansion could be a salve for that irritation.

I wonder how far into development the expansion was? Maybe far enough that, for instance if the wait for DA:I isn't just a matter of months but maybe a year or more, that the DA2 expansion could be dusted off finished and released before DA:I drops? Even a, dare I say, abbreviated version of the expansion?

It could be a means of testing whatever microtransactional scheme we've in store for DA:I, bridge the storylines a bit, and wrap up any threads that might not to make it into the next game. Not to mention it might make a tidy profit on an asset that is currently just collecting digital dust.

Developing the expansion in concert with DA:I to its intended, glory might be too much. Hell, developing it at all probably is. But EA is a big company with lots of resources. It there some small studio looking for a project to cut their teeth within the company, maybe throw this at them. The Bioware devs could gently consult and focus on DA:I. Rather than release it as a full blown expansion, make it a rather large DLC.

Anyways, the waiting...it burns. New content and info can dull the pain a bit though until the game ships.

A dev(Gaider I think) has already said that some of the story from the scrapped expansion has been rolled over into DA3. So expansion, not going to happen.

[imbs]

ElitePinecone wrote...

It's hardly condescending to point out that nobody in this thread has any inside knowledge of marketing whatsoever, nor any actual experience in marketing games, nor even any understanding of the game development process. Fans giving advice to developers on the business side of things with the expectation that they know better is absurd, and I have no qualms about saying so.

EA and Bioware are paying their marketing teams for a reason. Even if you think the products of their work are sometimes baffling or ridiculous (and I do), they're clearly doing something right if the company is still in business. Better yet, the people who decide the marketing strategy are actually employees of the company, rather than random people on a forum thread.

The idea that "company still in business therefore marketing is fine" is just 1 example from your post of utterly terrible logic. Your opinion that their work is sometimes baffling or ridiculous contradicts your entire point. I'm sure you will deny this part but there are several reasons I cba to go into why this is the case frankly.

PS It certainly is condescending to do so, and you could easily be wrong is the funniest part, and no the developers are not gods. Your views are so ridiculously naive it isn't even funny.

Modifié par imbs, 28 février 2013 - 08:42 .

[Volus Warlord]

Dirty **** wrote...

DA3: VaporWare

release date TBA

Yeah no. DA3 has NOTHING pointing towards vaporware.

[Volus Warlord]

ElitePinecone wrote...

It's hardly condescending to point out that nobody in this thread has any inside knowledge of marketing whatsoever, nor any actual experience in marketing games, nor even any understanding of the game development process. Fans giving advice to developers on the business side of things with the expectation that they know better is absurd, and I have no qualms about saying so.

EA and Bioware are paying their marketing teams for a reason. Even if you think the products of their work are sometimes baffling or ridiculous (and I do), they're clearly doing something right if the company is still in business. Better yet, the people who decide the marketing strategy are actually employees of the company, rather than random people on a forum thread.

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO!

First off, unless you happen to be a marketing expert, you've nothing to say either. Says you.

Next, these are SUGGESTIONS. These are ideas that Bioware can use or ignore at their discretion. Bioware has used our ideas on multiple occasions in the past (says Bioware) on a variety of subjects. Given, the vast majority of them will be total nonsense, and many of the solid ones will get ignored, but this is to be expected-there is only so much content, and Bioware's got their own ideas. Also, if we are not supposed to make suggestions, what the hell is the point of this forum?

As per your second paragraph,



This is trolling, dronism, or both. It hurts.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 28 février 2013 - 04:46 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I have never marketed a video game.

I have never designed a video game.

I have never written a movie script.

I have never been a chef in a five star restaurant.

I have never been an engineer involved with the building of a car.

I have never drawn up the schematics of an airplane, nor been the purchasing officer in charge of how it is stocked.

Yet I can say I don't like being a tall guy on a plane whose legs get crushed for hours on end. I can say that I don't like when my car makes bad noises like the alignment has gone out of whack or has a terrible design that makes handling the car a pain. I can say I don't like the majority of French cooking that seems to have the been the standard for the pinnacle of culinary arts for decades because it's use of eggs and butter in nearly everything. I can say a script for a movie is weak or has a silly premise. I can say a game is not fun and I can point out exactly where in my experience that fun breaks down and for what reasons.

And I can say, as a consumer of video games and their subsequent marketing techniques for the past nearly three decades, what I think will work and what will not. Does that make me an expert? Absolutely not. Does it mean my opinion should not matter because I am not an expert? DEFINITELY not. Because nearly every bad decision a multi-million dollar company has ever made were decisions by "experts" and yet the decision on whether it was a bad decision or not is almost unanimously made by an end-user consumer who is NOT an expert.

Do I know what Bioware's Marketing team had planned for DA3? No. But I have seen more consoles released than I can count without using my toes. And I have seen more games released than I could really ever want to sit down and figure out. I have seen marketing campaigns utterly fail, and I've seen campaigns work better than their designers ever thought possible. I've seen what works for me when I know nothing about a game and what works when I know everything. I am an EXPERT in how marketing does or does not appeal to me.

Keeping tight lipped works for me. Showing, not telling, works for me as well. As does not using over-hyped, over-sensationalized campaigns.

But underestimating how much buzz the gaming world is going to generate for other products has not worked well in the past. Assuming all of your fans and potential customers are going to be paying attention when you make an announcement and begin releasing information when there is a lot going on to capture their attention also has not worked well in the past.

If anyone thinks more people are going to be reading reviews for DA3 instead of reviews for the PS4 being released mere weeks apart, then I think that is setting themselves up for disappointment. Even if the game is a next gen title, the game doesn't stack up to its competitors in terms of fanbase size and established brand names.

To reestablish itself as a dominant name in the RPG market, Bioware needs to keep all the new fans from DA2, return all of the old fans from DA:O and add a good chunk of brand new gamers in the mix as well. I'm not saying DA3 has to sell as much or more copies of DA:O to be a success, as no one can know that at this point. But I am saying that for Bioware to cement itself as a leader in story-telling and RPG games, it needs to get out from the shadow of its former success and begin establishing a new legacy, otherwise the game will be constantly chasing its own tail of being compared to the original.

Again, as I've said, I really like the strategy of keeping quiet so far. My concern is the lack of reveal only in terms of the projected release date. If the projected release date is moved, then all my concerns dissolve into mist. But if Bioware is committing to a <9 month time frame to get the game out the door and want to avoid being just another game lost in the shuffle of 2013, then they really want to look at getting the wheels rolling before early-Spring is over and the craziness of the video game industry for this Spring/Summer begins.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 28 février 2013 - 03:51 .

[MerinTB]

I'm all for them not saying boo until the game is just about ready to go gold.

[Everwarden]

Hey, I think the silence is a good thing. We don't want another rushed Dragon Age.

[Fast Jimmy]

MerinTB wrote...

I'm all for them not saying boo until the game is just about ready to go gold.

Personally, I would be as well. Except for the fact that the release date is tentatively set for Holiday 2013. If that is the case, then the game WILL be drowned out. It doesn't have the visceral, action combat that a Skyrim does to show off in trailers, nor does it even have the facial recognition of Shepherd since DA goes with a new PC every game. There is literally nothing to make it stand out to any non-DA fan strong enough to combat the over-saturation that will be going on in the video game industry during this Holiday.

If you were to ask your average gamer what Top 10 Games they are looking forward to for this Holiday, DA3 wouldn't even make the list. If that doesn't change by August or September, then there is very little chance that the game will come close DA:O numbers, let alone Skyrim's. And before anyone says "Sales aren't the most important thing" I would just like to point out that with the engine change, the likely leap to next-gen graphics and fidelity and the long development cycle (not quite DA:O, but DA:O's production costs were lower), this could very well be close to the most expensive game Bioware has ever produced.  Even if the game is one of the best ever made, if peoeple don't know about it and the sales take a hit that is corresponding to that, it could be a very bad scenario for the DA team and Bioware. After all, we've all played great, amazing games that did not sell well at all, critically acclaimed installments that show up in the bargain bin instead of the Hall of Fame. Nothing is preventing DA from being a great game that is a total flop.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 28 février 2013 - 04:15 .

[MerinTB]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
I'm all for them not saying boo until the game is just about ready to go gold.

If you were to ask your average gamer what Top 10 Games they are looking forward to for this Holiday, DA3 wouldn't even make the list.

Honestly, and I guess I'm not the average gamer by a mile, I cannot think of ten games I'm looking forward to period.

Some games I've Kickstartered (there's about five of them I believe) and BioShock Infinite are all that come to mind.  So, as blaise as I'm am towards DA:I, it actually makes the list for me.

I'll have to double check my KS list - there might be more then five games in that list.  Dead State, Shadowrun Returns, Shadowrun Online, Wasteland 2, Project Eternity...
the next Broken Sword game, okay, that is six.  Hmmm... The Banner Saga, that's seven.  DoubleFine Adventure, that's eight.

Hey, okay, that makes ten games if I include BioShock and Dragon Age!

EDIT- though, to be fair, my "enthusiam" for Shadowrun Online is probably below that of Inquisition... as in not very high at all.

Modifié par MerinTB, 28 février 2013 - 04:41 .

[ElitePinecone]

imbs wrote...
snip

Volus Warlord wrote...
snip

Fast Jimmy wrote...
snip

There is a huge difference between suggestions made in good-faith and the faux-omniscient grandstanding "they'd better do as I think or they'll FAIL at everything!!" kind of posts that make up huge parts of this thread.

Your ability to a consumer to say "yes, I like being marketed to in THIS way!" doesn't imbue instant knowledge of all game marketing ever, and waxing lyrical about what Bioware *must* do with DA3's marketing to avoid total collapse just makes everyone involved look silly. Opinions have a really different tone to ultimatums.

[Volus Warlord]

 @Jimmy I'm fine with a sleeper hit 

Based on what we've seen recently, I doubt DA3's marketing will be insufficient.

[Fast Jimmy]

ElitePinecone wrote...

imbs wrote...
snip

Volus Warlord wrote...
snip

Fast Jimmy wrote...
snip

There is a huge difference between suggestions made in good-faith and the faux-omniscient grandstanding "they'd better do as I think or they'll FAIL at everything!!" kind of posts that make up huge parts of this thread.

Your ability to a consumer to say "yes, I like being marketed to in THIS way!" doesn't imbue instant knowledge of all game marketing ever, and waxing lyrical about what Bioware *must* do with DA3's marketing to avoid total collapse just makes everyone involved look silly. Opinions have a really different tone to ultimatums.

It is my opinion that based on what we know of both the remaining work to be done on DA3 (not ready to be shown to the world by PAX East at the end of March) and the competition in Marketing it will face with its current Holiday 2013 Release Date (new consoles, big-name franchise releases, even RPG Kickstarters as Merin pointed out), that the game will be incredibly hard-pressed to penetrate the psyche of gamers enough to result in the level of DA:O sales.

That's my opinion. Its not an expert opinion, but it isn't an illogical one. I'm not sure there is anything anyone (even Bioware) could show me at this point that could convince me it isn't a risk. And if there is a risk without a solid plan to mitigate said risks, then risks all too often become problems that result in less-than-ideal outcomes.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 28 février 2013 - 04:58 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

So... the crux of your problem is on a release date that is just as tentative as the date they plan to start talking about it?

Yes. It isn't a set date, but it is the only date we have so far. I was fine with a holiday 2013 date when we were told things would start being revealed as early as Spring, with the natural assumption that it would be Early Spring.. But saying that things won't be ready to show until at least after PAX East (the end of March) means the earliest any information could start being diseminated would be April or May. Possibly not even until later. That's pushing it.

Holiday is a long way away,

No it is not. 40 weeks. 280 days. ~6700 hours. And that's for a later Fall Release date AND not taking into account that the game will be going Gold many weeks or even months before that.

and I would fancy a guess that they capture most of their customers toward the end during the marketing blitz anyway. That's how I am for 99% of the games I buy-- Bioware is practically the only developer I actually "follow." Yet my money is only just as valid to Bioware as it is to all those other companies.

I think you may also be making a big ado about how "ready" they are when from all they've said their standard for something being "ready to show" is simply excessively cautious this time around, inferrably as a result of how DA2's reveal with the blazing fire trails, terrible blightland textures, even uglier darkspawn than the final game had, etc. was generally received. It doesn't mean they are behind or that it must be another rush job.

 

I don't disgaree. But there is going to be a LOT of companies doing a LOT of things to attract the attention of gamers within the next nine months. In a normal year, I'd be slightly concerned, but not see this as a true RISK. But this year, there is so much being hidden, revealed, rumored and speculated about video games that it will be very easy for a game to be drowned out in all of the noise. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 28 février 2013 - 05:12 .

[vortex216]

I have faith in Bioware. Why would they want a repeat of the fans blowing their heads off because they made a decent, not spectaculous game? Besides, even if it does come out more like DA2 I will be...satisfied.

[Renmiri1]

I am finding people excited about DA3 that I didn't even knew liked RPGs so there must be some word of mouth thing going on. I think the success of Skyrim will help in this case. People want another game with dragons and RP and DA is an excellent franchise to get in, if you like RPG and slashing/ throwing fireballs at things.

If Dragon Age was another FPS then I'd say it could get lost in the shuffle but being something different and on the same league as Skyrim, I think it can get a lot of new fans in this 2013 xmas.

[bEVEsthda]

I don't exactly have faith in Bioware, not exactly... But I agree with Jimmy's assessment.
And I'll add another reason why it's a good idea to keep quiet now. There could be bitterenders left who could go active again. Releasing tidbits could generate critical comments, creating a negative buzz. There has to be a break between DA2 and DA3. A fresh launch for DA3.

[Fast Jimmy]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I don't exactly have faith in Bioware, not exactly... But I agree with Jimmy's assessment.
And I'll add another reason why it's a good idea to keep quiet now. There could be bitterenders left who could go active again. Releasing tidbits could generate critical comments, creating a negative buzz. There has to be a break between DA2 and DA3. A fresh launch for DA3.

That's going to happen, regardless. Just look at the thread here that was started from the PCGamer article where the author was still bashing elements of DA2.

You're going to have people negging on DA2 and ME3 even if the game was released ten years from now. A few extra months isn't going to be able to remedy that in a significant way.

[bEVEsthda]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I don't exactly have faith in Bioware, not exactly... But I agree with Jimmy's assessment.
And I'll add another reason why it's a good idea to keep quiet now. There could be bitterenders left who could go active again. Releasing tidbits could generate critical comments, creating a negative buzz. There has to be a break between DA2 and DA3. A fresh launch for DA3.

That's going to happen, regardless. Just look at the thread here that was started from the PCGamer article where the author was still bashing elements of DA2.

You're going to have people negging on DA2 and ME3 even if the game was released ten years from now. A few extra months isn't going to be able to remedy that in a significant way.

Well, of course people are going to nag about DA2 and ME3 forever. ...If you bring up the subject.
That's the point. Keep quiet until they have something to show that is not DA2, but something of its own.
A few more months won't change it, no. But being able to show something different, making the buzz being about DA3, instead of DA2, might.

[Cainhurst Crow]

While waiting for a game CDPR was making called cyberpunk, they had said they would make it about 10 months ago. Than there was absolutely nothing until the game's trailer was formally released, and than they started to talk about it, interviews started popping up everywhere, and game info began to flow to the public.

Same situation here. While bioware has let people know about the bare basics of DA3, they haven't released any kind of official announcement to show off what the game will have, and are not ready to do so. So, please suck it up and learn to be patient until they actually release some info, instead of whining that you aren't getting anything given to you before it's ready like a kid constantly asking "are we there yet?"

[Steppenwolf]

I'm pretty sure everyone who keeps saying "They'll show us content when it's ready, get over it" aren't actually reading these threads.

We're not bothered by waiting. We're bothered by the fact that Bioware says the game isn't even ready for a teaser trailer or screenshots for a magazine reveal. They still say the game is set for a calendar 2013 release and won't be be ready to show ANYTHING even by the end of March. If the plan is to release during the Holiday season the game will have to go GOLD late Summer/early Fall. If you don't think that means anything then you are not a critically thinking person.

Renmiri1 wrote...

I am finding people excited about DA3 that I didn't even knew liked RPGs

Excited by what?

Renmiri1 wrote...
so there must be some word of mouth thing going on.

Spread by who?

[Yuoaman]

David Gaider wrote...

DragonAgeTemplar wrote...
in 2 days its march 1st
how long do they gonna wait? until it becomes june or what?

Possibly, or even longer. That's the problem with mentioning even a vague date-- some people think that's a promise. Back when it was mentioned, that may have even been the idea... but things change. And when we say "the earliest you'll hear more", we do for honest to goodness certain mean "the earliest."

You could be waiting a while. Or it could be right around the corner. We're not saying.

I expect an announcement at exactly midnight, Mr. Gaider, or I will only pre-order the game with 99.7% enthusiasm.

You definitely don't want that.

[bondari reloads.]

http://www.eurogamer...t-be-as-obvious

"Watch for that moment...and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap."

Modifié par abspenst, 28 février 2013 - 11:33 .