532 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

LinksOcarina wrote...
snip

The target release window at this time is widely understood to be late 2013, as confirmed by Mike Laidlaw and Chris Priestly. 

[Tootles FTW]

I thought the initial date for release was 2014, and all was right in the world. Now suddenly I hear that they're shooting for a late-2013 release and I'm finding myself anxious. 2014 = not anxious. 2013 = anxious. It's amazing, really, what a digit can do.

[Fast Jimmy]

Commander Kurt wrote...

But, Jimmy, what you're asking for is consumer testing, not media presence (unless you're suggesting a trailer where they show the ending and focus on the crafting system and menues). Also, are you sure they didn't do that with DA2 and ME3? I'm pretty sure they HAVE been showing DA3 to fans, wasn't there talk about that in the Twitter thread? If you lived in Edmonton you could sign up and hopefully be selected to sneak a peek or somesuch nonsense of which I am certainly not jealous.

They're actually here almost every day collecting fan feedback, but they're the professionals and they have to go with their gut and their experience. Putting info out there for our judgement could never end well (the protag should be voiced but silent, romances should be gay, bi and straight (but NOT all of them), and the game would never ever have enough slides).

Collecting fan feedback at this point is nearly worthless. The only feedback we are giving is based off of total conjecture or from a game that was released over two years ago. 

And yes, I did see where they were collecting test gamers in Edmonton. And I would have been super excited to live in Canada to get that chance.

That being said, there is a saying in the Psychology field... that college students are the most studied and documented segment in the Psychology world. Meaning that college professors doing experiments for their theses often post fliers around their campus to get test subjects, which results in college students being, by and large, the most tested demographic in the field. 

While I am sure that the field of possible testers in Edmonton is diverse, I doubt it is a good subset of the DA population... just like the BSN isn't a good subset either. But the more people you get involved at a time when you can gather feedback that results in the most opportunity for change, the better. 

Having 50 people test your game in a really rough sense is pretty cool. Having millions know what your game is going to involve and being able to provide feedback while feedback still means something is also good. But that's not the way it seems things are going to go, so I'll just wait like everyone else and give my feedback after the game is announced/released so Bioware can take it into account (or not) for DA4. That's all that really can happen at this point.

[Fiddzz]

 I agree with David's post, we haven't had a reveal yet, just the announce.  We are listening to fans and have taking their input into consideration, and will continue to do so through out the development cycle.

I don't understand the recent trend in marketing for games where they show you a design document and some concepts, then cut to a bunch of developers standing around a PC screen going "man that's cool" Leaves too much room for backlash if you change something, have to cut something, etc etc.  But those are the things the big marketing guys have to figure out.  

I like our plan of we are not going to show anything till its awesome and will blow you away.


On a less serious note, reading through this thread made me think of this.  If we followed everything everyone said on the BSN for how to make the game... we'd end up with this.



 i kid.

Modifié par Blair Brown, 21 février 2013 - 05:16 .

[LinksOcarina]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Collecting fan feedback at this point is nearly worthless. The only feedback we are giving is based off of total conjecture or from a game that was released over two years ago. 

And yes, I did see where they were collecting test gamers in Edmonton. And I would have been super excited to live in Canada to get that chance.

That being said, there is a saying in the Psychology field... that college students are the most studied and documented segment in the Psychology world. Meaning that college professors doing experiments for their theses often post fliers around their campus to get test subjects, which results in college students being, by and large, the most tested demographic in the field. 

While I am sure that the field of possible testers in Edmonton is diverse, I doubt it is a good subset of the DA population... just like the BSN isn't a good subset either. But the more people you get involved at a time when you can gather feedback that results in the most opportunity for change, the better. 

Having 50 people test your game in a really rough sense is pretty cool. Having millions know what your game is going to involve and being able to provide feedback while feedback still means something is also good. But that's not the way it seems things are going to go, so I'll just wait like everyone else and give my feedback after the game is announced/released so Bioware can take it into account (or not) for DA4. That's all that really can happen at this point.

You raise a very interesting point, Jimmy, and it (I'm tempted to say "begs the question, but I know better") raises the question of how they went about selecting their test subjects. I personally would be interesting in knowing that, to determine if their sample was representative or, more realistically, HOW representative it was. As far as we know, they did not select for any particular demographic, did they?

Unless if its an open survey/test, chances are the demographics won't be released sadly.

But hey, we can ask. Did BioWare do testing like this and was it a diverse demographic of both young and old game players of both sexes?

[JCAP]

Blair Brown wrote...

 I agree with David's post, we haven't had a reveal yet, just the announce.  We are listening to fans and have taking their input into consideration, and will continue to do so through out the development cycle.

I don't understand the recent trend in marketing for games where they show you a design document and some concepts, then cut to a bunch of developers standing around a PC screen going "man that's cool" Leaves too much room for backlash if you change something, have to cut something, etc etc.  But those are the things the big marketing guys have to figure out.  

I like our plan of we are not going to show anything till its awesome and will blow you away.


On a less serious note, reading through this thread made me think of this.  If we followed everything everyone said on the BSN for how to make the game... we'd end up with this.



 i kid.

True story, Cullen as an companion and LI, Qunari (race) LI, Anora as companion and LI, Griffons magical return, Hawke and Warden as LI (I remember one thread suggesting this), GodChild as companion... Jesus, it would be a very "interesting" game, that's for sure. 


AND wait just a little longer, someone will suggest Flemeth as LI!!! 

[Arcadian Legend]

JCAP wrote...

AND wait just a little longer, someone will suggest Flemeth as LI!!! 

I'm sure that's already happened.

[LinksOcarina]

Flemeth as a love interest would be interesting...in a creepy sort of way.

[Paul E Dangerously]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Flemeth as a love interest would be interesting...in a creepy sort of way.

I'm up for this, if it's got a "dealing with this LI is like walking through a minefield" type feel, like Viconia in BG2.

[9TailsFox]

I am the only one here who want start game and know nothing about it and experience it fresh? And people who think they know how create game better than company whose job to create games please stop cry because you don't. Blair Brown exactly this good one . I don't want DA3 to be something everybody like I want Bioware DA3. I loved DA:O and liked DA2 I am sure I enjoy DA3. Lead writer still David Gaider and I am happy with his and team work.

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 21 février 2013 - 05:42 .

[Brockololly]

Blair Brown wrote...
I don't understand the recent trend in marketing for games where they show you a design document and some concepts, then cut to a bunch of developers standing around a PC screen going "man that's cool" Leaves too much room for backlash if you change something, have to cut something, etc etc.  But those are the things the big marketing guys have to figure out.  

I like our plan of we are not going to show anything till its awesome and will blow you away.

I think the recent trend of showing things or at least talking about things early is interesting, especially if you look at Kickstarter. Take Project Eternity- I absolutely love how they pretty regularly have updates every couple of weeks where a different developer just gives a little breakdown on what they're working on or talks about some general design things.

Especially if you're talking high level concept stuff, I think discussing that sort of thing early on can alleviate and squash any potential backlash because you're likely not going to change core tenets of your game's design. Hell, that sort of design document pitch is basically what earned Project Eternity however many millions it earned for its Kickstarter. The nitty gritty details are fluid but talking about some of that in a frank way is nice to hear, IMO.

I can understand holding off too I guess, since then you have the core design tenets not only set in stone but you can hopefully showcase them in a concrete way instead of just talking about them. The risk there is if people see that and possibly disagree with or dislike how one of those core features looks/plays, especially if its something that goes against what their expectation was, then you're likely dealing with backlash much closer to the game's release. Whereas if you open up earlier, then any backlash has time to simmer down and those disgruntled people maybe won't be as vocal later on. Maybe being the key word.

I think Bungie kind of botched their reveal of Destiny in that they made a big hulabaloo about nothing, flashed some concept art and opened up preorders which is just gross. But if you're simply doing more like The Witcher 3 where you're stating some general goals and principles of the game without any  super specific details, it lets people know what to expect early on to set their expectations accordingly. People know to expect an open world game for The Witcher 3. They know its going to focus on Geralt and the main story deals with more personal aspects of those around him. They know the general setting and timeframe of the start of the story. They know CDPR is tweaking the combat in certain ways. And so on.

Especially with Dragon Age 3, I don't know what to expect really. So my expectations might be completely out of whack with somebody else, since we haven't heard anything and thus can imagine what DA3 might be without developers/publishers swatting down and crushing those dreams early on. Especially since Origins and DA2 are so different and the existing fanbase is pretty split on those games and what they liked from them. So while some people might get to the reveal and think its amazing, without enough expectation management early on in terms of what to expect, I just think the risk of having backlash is pretty great too. And I can't imagine having negative backlash relatively close to a game's launch would be a good thing for sales.

[Fast Jimmy]

JCAP wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

 I agree with David's post, we haven't had a reveal yet, just the announce.  We are listening to fans and have taking their input into consideration, and will continue to do so through out the development cycle.

I don't understand the recent trend in marketing for games where they show you a design document and some concepts, then cut to a bunch of developers standing around a PC screen going "man that's cool" Leaves too much room for backlash if you change something, have to cut something, etc etc.  But those are the things the big marketing guys have to figure out.  

I like our plan of we are not going to show anything till its awesome and will blow you away.


On a less serious note, reading through this thread made me think of this.  If we followed everything everyone said on the BSN for how to make the game... we'd end up with this.



 i kid.

True story, Cullen as an companion and LI, Qunari (race) LI, Anora as companion and LI, Griffons magical return, Hawke and Warden as LI (I remember one thread suggesting this), GodChild as companion... Jesus, it would be a very "interesting" game, that's for sure. 


AND wait just a little longer, someone will suggest Flemeth as LI!!! 

LOL Oh, it has. Many, many times. The DA:O forums were swamped with them. And so were the DA2 forums for quite some time (people REALLY got randy about Flemeth's new skin-tight, claw outfit with horn hair).

That being said, I wouldn't want Bioware to collect a list of wants here from the BSN. But bouncing ideas off the BSN about concepts might not be a bad idea. 

Sure, people post threads about Griffons and Qunari sex, but if Bioware posted a thread saying "Here's what we're thinking about crafting - what are your thoughts? No promises, just some ideas we've been bouncing around." then I think some really good feedback could be given when the mechanics of such a system were revealed.

Instead, if it follows DA2, we won't hear anything about the crafting system at all, unless you count playing the game as "hearing" about it. 


I'm not asking for Bioware to seek fan feedback about how the series should move forward or anything, but something along the lines of what you all had been spitballing in terms of certain mechanics or features and asking us what we think could be productive. Not a design-by-committee type of feedback, but a "well, if you all are thinking about going this route, here are my thoughts and here's what I think my work/not work/what I've seen in other games."

But that's just my own two cents on things.

[Sanunes]

I am actually liking the silence on the game so far, for the Mass Effect boards still have people going on about how BioWare "lied" and I can see that happening with this game if they released details on something that either changes or is removed from the game.

[devSin]

David Gaider wrote...

Our hand was a bit forced in DA3's case, but until the reveal you're simply not going to hear much about it from us.

Next-gen consoles confirmed. ;-)

But I approve anyway. Although it was nice in the old days to hear about the game five years before it released, the fun of it was being able to get your (and Mary and Sheryl; miss those gals) thoughts on how the world was shaping up and the things you were trying to do and the sorts of things the team wasn't going to be aiming for (oh, the discussions of static lighting!).

These days, there doesn't seem to be that camaraderie, and since the game isn't coming out any sooner regardless of when you announce it, I can afford to wait.

Bring your (and your team's) signature humor and wit and charm and wonder and nuance (as if you guys could ever do different), and you'll have at least one pleased customer, even if I end up criticizing some things (and I'm sure I'll find some things to complain about with the engine switch, pretty though the game may look). And keep using the em-dash, please! I heartily approve! :-)

Modifié par devSin, 21 février 2013 - 05:57 .

[schalafi]

Worrying about when the game will be released is just futile, and all the "what ifs" in the world won't change it one iota. It will be done when it's done, and released when it's released! I learned that a long time ago when I was waiting for Baldur's Gate 2. ; -)

[Fast Jimmy]

Brockololly wrote...


Especially if you're talking high level concept stuff, I think discussing that sort of thing early on can alleviate and squash any potential backlash because you're likely not going to change core tenets of your game's design.

I agree with most of this statement, and wanted to single this out in particular.

It is one thing to hype a game (Awesome Button; think like a general, fight like a Spartan; 16 different endings; etc.) and its another to discuss the mechanics and the design philosophy. 

ME3 was talked about a ton before release, but very little was said about the mechanics. For instance, multiplayer. At first, it was like "no MP is going to be in ME3." Then, it was "okay, syke, MP is going to be in it." Then it was just vague references and descriptions, with the RNG store and the Horde mode concepts only brought up right towards the end. That's not discussing your vision for a feature. That's pumping the hype train.

Anyway, like I said, its not my choice to make, since its not my game. And I am not chomping at the bit for more details just for details sake (after all, the game will get here when it gets here, and I hope you don't release it a day before you think its ready). But getting the input of others about the underlying foundations of how the game works just seems like a route that would offer more value than harm. The way Bethesda does it, where they have numerous 10/15 minute long videos that show what happens in the game being explained by developers (NOT developer interviews where they use silly catchphrases, but showing and explaining) is a much more effective way at selling a game then putting the Marketing department on tailoring an advertisement campaign about a product they don't know to a group of potential buyers they don't understand.

[Emzamination]

David Gaider wrote...

DA3 has been announced. We have not yet, however, done the game's reveal... the part where we show it off and talk about it. The Witcher 3 did both (albeit their reveal has been of limited scope), and that's great for them. Companies will do it differently.

Our hand was a bit forced in DA3's case, but until the reveal you're simply not going to hear much about it from us. The moment we start talking about it, fans are going to want to know everything, so we'll wait until we can show something that answers as many questions as it prompts. If you're impatient, then tune out and wait until the reveal happens. We're not asking you to buy the game at the moment, or even think about it. Once the reveal happens, that will change rather quickly I'm sure.

Yeah. Can't do that David. It was the dragon age teams choice, not ours, to stop production on all Da2 dlc and leave the fans cold turkey with absolutely nothing for a year. If we're restless and gnawing at the bit for info, it's because the Da team made us this way.

This is why it is important to release a steady stream of dlc and expansions inbetween game releases, so your fan base doesn't start exhibiting withdrawal symptons.

[LadyVaJedi]

At least we know that DA3 is coming. I don't blame the Devs. being quiet on the progress of the game. It would be nice to hear from y'all on how y'all are doing. It's nice just to "hear" y'alls voice.

xoxox

[n7stormrunner]

Emzamination wrote...

Yeah. Can't do that David. It was the dragon age teams choice, not ours, to stop production on all Da2 dlc and leave the fans cold turkey with absolutely nothing for a year. If we're restless and gnawing at the bit for info, it's because the Da team made us this way.

This is why it is important to release a steady stream of dlc and expansions inbetween game releases, so your fan base doesn't start exhibiting withdrawal symptons.

do what I do. feed one of your other addictions, when I can't get new games I read manga and anime... oh and tvtropes. sure, it'll ruin your life but it will distract you from from your dragon age withdraw.

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I'm not asking for Bioware to seek fan feedback about how the series should move forward or anything, but something along the lines of what you all had been spitballing in terms of certain mechanics or features and asking us what we think could be productive. Not a design-by-committee type of feedback, but a "well, if you all are thinking about going this route, here are my thoughts and here's what I think my work/not work/what I've seen in other games."

There's already plenty of that, especially with the comparisons to other games.

Such comparisons are inevitable, because what other context does the fan have to offer their opinions? They know how things worked in DAO and DA2. They know how things work in the Witcher series, or in Skyrim, or whatever else they're drawing their experiences from. All perfectly valid. They will never have the context of a developer, however-- even if we tried to explain it until we were blue in the face, the majority of fans will still only relate to whatever we say by what's gone before-- and thus there's only so much consultation that's useful... ignoring the idea that fans want so many different things it'd be impossible to get a consensus now more than before. And that's putting aside the idea of any such consultation possibly starting a war in the fanbase which is, let's face it, pretty polarized on some issues.

We have a good idea what fans want. We also get early feedback from select groups, both locally and through focus groups-- in batches of people who self-identify as "I'm a DA fan", "I'm an RPG fan but not a fan of DA specifically" or "I'm a gamer, but not one who plays RPG's regularly"-- and, beyond that, we have our QA people. They're the people who give us feedback throughout development, and have the context of knowing not only what went before but what we're doing now, in full.

When it comes time for the reveal, we'll no doubt still want feedback on some things we haven't already decided (or which we have time to course-correct on, would be perhaps better to say). But if you want to give thoughts on the development process, basic design stuff-- that "equal seat at the table" I mentioned earlier-- then what you want to be is a developer. Otherwise, that's just not how it works, even if you think it should be. Not for us, and as I mentioned above, not necessarily a good idea for the DA fanbase even so.

Modifié par David Gaider, 21 février 2013 - 06:36 .

[Emzamination]

n7stormrunner wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Yeah. Can't do that David. It was the dragon age teams choice, not ours, to stop production on all Da2 dlc and leave the fans cold turkey with absolutely nothing for a year. If we're restless and gnawing at the bit for info, it's because the Da team made us this way.

This is why it is important to release a steady stream of dlc and expansions inbetween game releases, so your fan base doesn't start exhibiting withdrawal symptons.

do what I do. feed one of your other addictions, when I can't get new games I read manga and anime... oh and tvtropes. sure, it'll ruin your life but it will distract you from from your dragon age withdraw.

I totally wish I could just read manga all day, but classes consume all my time now from sun-up to to sun-down. If it wasn't for the merciful week I'm required to wait for a course grade, I'd never see these boards, tv or my 360

[Fiddzz]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Brockololly wrote...


Especially if you're talking high level concept stuff, I think discussing that sort of thing early on can alleviate and squash any potential backlash because you're likely not going to change core tenets of your game's design.

I agree with most of this statement, and wanted to single this out in particular.

And I disagree, I think it is a poor marketing idea, but thats just my opinion, and why i'm happy we are doing what we are.  But hey, thats for the people with the MBA in marketing to figure out :happy: