532 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I really miss companies who thought fans were worth listening to through out the entire process of the game development. Interplay for example took multiple fan ideas from the forums and the very beginning of the process and they made it right into the game. Sex appeal, night owl, those perks in FO2 were direct fan contributions. What a more simple and glorious time then one we now inhabit.

I have literally passed on more than a mere handful of ideas I have read on this very forum to the point where I am probably annoying Mike with spam.

I find this nice to hear at least. It is great when the devs get on the forums a lot and something sparks in the community. Like Blasto for example, although I personally didn't care for Blasto.

Anyway, I am also thankful to see the BioWare name under more threads than it was a while back. I even approve of the snarky and grumpy ones.

I am still dying for more info, though. Even if it is just a screen shot of a wire skeleton for the basic walking animation for a NPC. At least NPCs walking can be confirmed.

Still love you guys and gals (even though you haven't made another magical, steampunkish, and colorful world like Jade Empire...)


...

Seriously though, just a screen shot of a wired skeleton just waving would be awesome, or an eyeball, or even a screenshot of a dirt road! Anything!

Please?
I can remain patient though...

[Fortlowe]

I'd just like to know more about the game, quite simply. No soap box. No entitlement. No hard feelings. No ulteriormotives to speak of whatsoever. I'll wait for the game, sure. But, frankly I'm tired of waiting to find out what I'm waiting for.

[ElitePinecone]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

MrCrabby wrote...

To be fair they have announced details, and coincidentally they were all the things fans specifically said they didn't want. We get the return of the dialogue wheel, one single race and no origins.
But of course they are taking feedback into consideration <_<

This again?  Fans who post on the forums are not the majority of BioWare's customers.  We're a dedicated and often obnoxiously loud and opinionated minority.  And "feedback" is more like telemetry than anything else, an aggregate of lots of different opinions and experiences.  It's not homogeneous, and it's not individualized either.

This is a really nice way to put it.

If anything, I'd wager that the focus testing EA does with various groups of players (Bioware fans, DA fans, RPG players, non-RPG players, whatever) that a dev mentioned above is far more useful in terms of player feedback. Those responses can be controlled and quantified, generalised to a larger audience, used for sales projections, etc. Telemetry and statistics collected in the games alone would seem to be a far more worthwhile source of data than forum threads, in terms of determining *actual* player behaviour patterns and areas that were popular/unused.

The BSN is a cacaphony of chaotic responses by people who assuredly don't represent the typical DA player, let alone the market Bioware might be trying to target. 

[Wolfva2]

Information on a new game in production is like heroin. Yeah, sure, you just want ONE little taste! That's all! Just gi' us a shot o' dat sweeet sweeet horse and we'll be happy! You'll see! Of course, if they tell us something....then we'll want another shot. And another. Pretty soon we're toothless, addled addicts doing lurid acts in alleyways for whatever scrap of info our dealers at Bioware care to give out.

Way I see it, we can either trust that Bioware knows what they're doing, or assume they don't. If you trust them, sit back, take a deep breath, and practice being patient. If you don't trust them, then why are you even here? Lords know if *I* didn't think a company could produce a product I will like, I wouldn't be haunting their forums...or purchasing their products. That's just crazy.

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

I think its funny how BioWare said in the beginning they'll tell more about the game and reveal more things earlier on so potential players can see. That's almost Hudson-esk, right there.

My guess is that they only announced it because they figured by announcing it a day before the Drs. left they could overshadow their departure.

Wild Hunt!!!! (The Wild Hunt is a cavalry of interdemensional wraith riders in the heavens who abduct innocents and enlist them to join their cavalry. Not too much is known about them...they abducted Geralt's former lover, but having lost his memory his memory is still fragmented on the events. The elves don't comment about them, but I think they know more about the Wild Hunt then they are letting on. Where is Yennefer...and what happened? Will Geralt find his former love? Will the sorcress Triss Merigold feel hurt if he finds Yen and reunites with her? What does the Hunt want with a professional monster slayer...and does this tie into the warring of the Northern Kingdoms?)

Modifié par sympathy4sarenreturns, 22 février 2013 - 07:29 .

[9TailsFox]

sympathy4sarenreturns wrote...

I think its funny how BioWare said in the beginning they'll tell more about the game and reveal more things earlier on so potential players can see. That's almost Hudson-esk, right there.

They did  if you expect Bioware give us gameplay, companions and skill lists, and all game script they don't.

[Steppenwolf]

I don't buy the "Bioware can't talk about/show DA3 because it's on next-gen consoles" argument for a second. It makes zero sense. Watchdogs was shown last summer. Even if it is next-gen there is no rule against showing off pretty or impressive games because they might make people think about the next consoles. Microsoft and Sony know that people are already thinking about them because gaming news has been all about the next consoles for 2 years.

[Fredward]

Is it REALLY "media silence" when they've said that they would be discussing the game only in American spring? I think the whinging would be justified then, but not really now.

[Commander Kurt]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

It is really interesting about Kickstarter. I actually do have a MBA in marketing and I really look forward to seeing the results of the fans effectively turning into investors. I suspect much of the rage and entitlement we see in the gaming industry stems from this model of developers keeping fans in the loop during planning and production and maintaining an unusually strong connection with the consumers. It's pretty much unheard of in other industries, even within the entertainment segment, and I wonder if demands and expectations will rise or fall when involving the fans even further.

Exciting times, for sure.

From what I can tell from seeing a disappointing end to a Kickstarter project (not game-related though), it's definitely not pretty.

Yeah, I can imagine as much. Still, having an arena for players who are willing to pay up front for a gaming experience specifically catered to their tastes could have the effect of removing much of this entitlement from the traditionally developed games. Which would of course make the BSN a much lonelier place.

Fast Jimmy wrote...


See, I disagree about this not happening in other mediums. In software development (which video game development is a type of, it simply has an entertainment correspondent integrated into it), features are explained in great detail before an application is rolled out. In addition, end user testing is done almost regularly to make sure that it is prodcuing results that are in line with expectations/demands. 

The problem comes in when the entertainment section of the product is considered and Bioware doesn't want anything about the game "leaked." So they have all the need of end user testing like software development, but all the secrecy and hype-building like a movie release. It makes for a very difficult environment to balance things out, but I don't think that it is impossible to float out broad, general "here's the mechanic we're thinking about and how we would implement it roughly - does that sound like something you'd enjoy?" types of inquiries that also don't ruin or spoil anything about the story aspect of the game.

I also have the exact opposite outlook of Kickstarter games. The more sucessful Kickstarters have great communication with their fanbases and are very upfront with the style and feel of the game they are angling for. 

Don't like IE type RPG games? Then Obsidian made it pretty clear you probably don't want to invest in Project Eternity. Don't like games where you can't run around, shooting everything all willy nillylike its Wolfenstein 3D? Then you probably don't want to invest in Wasteland 2. 

I don't think that every single fan who paid money is going to be 100% satisfied with the end product, but I don't think it will be from lack of knowledge or from a feeling that the developer wasn't listening (at least not for the big ticket, popular games). If a hack in his basement tries to do the same thing and can't even make a game before the money is all gone? Sure, that's one thing. But just like any investing - you have to do your homework. And just like regular investing, if you're money gets wasted on something that doesn't pay out for you, that's on you as the investor. 

I see far more positives than negatives with Kickstarter. And the number one positive to me is the idea that people who paid money for the game to be made are also the ones with the biggest stake in if the game is enjoyable. The fact that the developers should and are listening to them (althoguh not bending to every whim, of course) is much more promising to me than many of the big blockbuster games that ignore fan requests in favor of certain policies or business decisions at the corporate level.

It wasn't too long ago when one would sit up late waiting for a beta key to hopefully appear in the mailbox, and I'm not saying it was a bad system (some still use it, right?). Also, explaining features is a good idea, but it's rare to see companies then changing these features before launch due to feedback from fans. But, I guess it could be done the way you suggest. I'm still not sure it would turn up anything useful, but some things we could probably agree on. Sort of. Maybe. Well, probably not.

I must admit that I am trying to do something similar at work, gunning for full disclosure and letting the guys take part in the descission making process. Honestly, it turns every little detail that used to take seconds to brush past into a major hassle, but I'm sticking with it a while longer to see if it might have long term effects that haven't surfaced yet.

Kickstarter will prove to be an important counter weight to the direction the rest of the industry is going, I'm sure. I would hate for it to be the dominant model though, seeing how insanely conservative gamers as a demographic are.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

horacethegrey wrote...

I figured they ought to dole out the news soon since their main competition is now being active.

Wouldnt call it much of a competition, more like a Demi god whipping a blind kid, I mean CDProject Red put all of Bioware's recent games to shame with just their second game, imagine what they have in store with their third. 

It's still possible that CDPR will disappoint massively at some point down the road. They're not infallible. Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk 2077 might not be all their fans are hoping they will be. Cyberpunk, being their first open-world, open-ended venture is a risky one.

Personally I think the Witcher games are somewhat overrated. They're based on fantasy, that at least going from the English translation (which I realize could be a problem in itself), is not especially well-written or compelling. I've taken a crack at Sapkowski's Blood of Elves and thus far find it quite poor, honestly. Yes it's the writers first book and maybe the translator is a complete ******, but the dialogue is stilted and wooden, the prose makes use of sentence fragments for effect or to seem cool and stylish, and there's unnecessary repetition of the same exact idea, just worded slightly different in one sentence then followed in the next. Overall Geralt of Rivia seems like a cheap knock-off of Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, although Sapkowski swears he's never read any books featuring that character; it could just be a coincidence.

Aside from not being impressed by the source material, I find that these games, while allegedly dark and mature, actually often come off as though they are aimed at boys aged fourteen to sixteen. The sex cards are stupid and lame, aimed at sad, desperate virgin nerds.

The English voice-acting in both games suck! This is not a good thing when you're trying to reach an international audience. I find myself having to play these games in Polish w/ subtitles.

Is that your professional review or some butthurt attempt at defending the honour of the vastly inferior Dragon Age series? You're trying to hard fella.

[CrystaJ]

Don't care what CDProjekt does or doesn't do. Never will. It's not relevant to anything here, either, so I don't know why you'd even bring it up.

I want more information on Dragon Age 3, sure, but I don't doubt it will come when they said it would (which was Spring, if I recall correctly).

It's still Winter as far as I know.

[iOnlySignIn]

Maybe BioWare do not want to be sued for false advertising again?

[Sutekh]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Maybe BioWare do not want to be sued for false advertising again?

Again? They were?

Well, judges probably need a good laugh from time to time, so why not?

Considering this ^ among other posts here, I really wonder why they're so cautious about giving any news. It's not like there would be people ready to tear them apart over the slightest thing no matter what. Perish the thought.

[Danny Boy 7]

MrCrabby wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

MrCrabby wrote...

To be fair they have announced details, and coincidentally they were all the things fans specifically said they didn't want. We get the return of the dialogue wheel, one single race and no origins.
But of course they are taking feedback into consideration <_<

This again?  Fans who post on the forums are not the majority of BioWare's customers.  We're a dedicated and often obnoxiously loud and opinionated minority.  And "feedback" is more like telemetry than anything else, an aggregate of lots of different opinions and experiences.  It's not homogeneous, and it's not individualized either.

I don't recall saying this forum was the majority, however I can read sales numbers. I can also gauge the feelings of a wide variety of people by reading forums such as here, Kotaku, 4chan, IGN and so on. I'm sure there are indeed some people who like Dragon Age 2, just like there are some people who like Manos: Hands of Fate. They are however a minority.

My answer was not to bash the design choices on the game but merely to speculate on why they released those tidbits and are keeping silent otherwise.

Not to be antagonistic, but sales numbers, and opinions on those websites aren't exactly...built to be read into, know what I mean? I mean the first two weeks of sales on the game could have meant that everyone interested in the game had bought it. You could say that Origins had more sales...doesn't mean the game was necessarily enjoyed by those numbers that are missing, I'd also avoid reading into the "variety" of feelings on forums as they are generally the same people just posting the same opinion....over.....and over.

It's also a little short-sighted to call any one group the "minority", you could be right and say that people who enjoyed DA2 are the minority whereas someone else could turn around and say the exact same about fans of Origins or people who feel DA2 was an abomination.

I think the safest assumption one can make about the franchise is, they're divided. 

As to your previous post I don't think the inclusion of the dialogue wheel is a sign they aren't listening to their fans. In fact I'd say that they are listening to their fans, but there are multiple reasons why it's still there. 1. It's already there and it's easier to go from a silent protagonist to a voiced one, but harder the opposite way around. 2. Fans are so divided on the topic that either way they're going to dissapoint someone (and really both sides could say that they're listening to the wrong people, it's just going to happen that way), but and this is in my opinion. If they choose to implement the feature that best shows their game I can't blame them for making that decision.

Races is something I'm a bit iffy on. I mean I want everybody to have their customization, if it's what makes them happy great, it doesn't really effect me so I'm okay with that. However on the flip side. I wasn't promised more races so I can't really complain. But that's just me, I mean some people just really loved races and come to Dragon Age for those races. Which is something I can respect. Similar to how I respect people who want romances. I just hope everybody knows what the game is, not what you (not you in particular) have made it to be.

Origins was a unique feature for...er Origins, but DA3 is supposed to have non-playable backgrounds which idk, might not fit into what people were looking for. It's a compromise, but idk it's not like they aren't listening. I guess this falls into the, I wan't promised it, so I shouldn't expect it. 

[Danny Boy 7]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Is it REALLY "media silence" when they've said that they would be discussing the game only in American spring? I think the whinging would be justified then, but not really now.

I've been wondering this myself. They said spring, it's not spring yet, why you complainin?

I will say though that some people are more concerned with a percieved lack of consumer feedback. Not that I disagree or that I got that right entirely but that's what I'm getting from this.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sutekh wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Maybe BioWare do not want to be sued for false advertising again?

Again? They were?

Well, judges probably need a good laugh from time to time, so why not?

Considering this ^ among other posts here, I really wonder why they're so cautious about giving any news. It's not like there would be people ready to tear them apart over the slightest thing no matter what. Perish the thought. 

 

To clear this up, Bioware was never sued.

A claim was brought to a Better Business Bureau analyst to determine if such a claim could be made in regards to Mass Effect 3. It reviewed two criteria: pre-release statements and actual explanations of the game on the game box or for online descriptions in places where you can buy/order the game via the Internet.

The analyst concluded that the pre-release statements, while misleading and possibly unethical, we're technically not part of any product facing materials and could not be grounds for action.

The analyst did say that comments made on the promotional materials on the box and the online description, however, did state that there were vastly different outcomes that took into account your choices, a claim they said was refutable by the original "3 different colors" endings that were nearly identical pre-EC.

The final review was that consumers did have a right to a formal comaint through the Bureau and that a refund for not providing the experience promised by any employee stating such was valid. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 février 2013 - 02:45 .

[ElitePinecone]

CrystaJ wrote...

Don't care what CDProjekt does or doesn't do. Never will. It's not relevant to anything here, either, so I don't know why you'd even bring it up.

I want more information on Dragon Age 3, sure, but I don't doubt it will come when they said it would (which was Spring, if I recall correctly).

It's still Winter as far as I know.

Spring is coming.

[horacethegrey]

CrystaJ wrote...

Don't care what CDProjekt does or doesn't do. Never will. It's not relevant to anything here, either, so I don't know why you'd even bring it up.

And why not? They are Bioware's biggest competition right now, and they've been quite generous with all the prerelease info on The Witcher 3 since they formally announced the game. Whereas Bioware has been somewhat hesitant to release any info on DA3, beyond a few screenshots and story details. 

I think it's a perfectly valid question to bring up, given I'm really curious about the game. And for the last time, I started this thread not to pit CDProjekt against Bioware, but because I'm hankering for info regarding DA3. 

Anyway, David Gaider replied to my OP already, so I'll respect what he said and be patient.

[MerinTB]

EntropicAngel wrote...
That was not refutable at all.

In one ending, all synthetics along with the Reapers are DEAD.

In another ending, the Reapers are STILL HERE, with COMMANDER SHEPARD at their head.

In still another, everything is HALF SYNTHETIC HALF ORGANIC.



Not arguing with you Jimmy, just the clain that these are NOT wildly variant.

Those are what you are TOLD happens.  What you watched on the screen?  Remarkably little variance.

And so much not DA3 related. <_<

Modifié par MerinTB, 22 février 2013 - 03:29 .