582 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

I don't think you understand the difference between a shackle and a core function...

Has the catalyst done any out side perserving life in any way?

[CronoDragoon]

The shackle vs. non-shackle isn't something that either side can" prove". One side can point to the Intelligence's behavior following the pattern that a shackled AI would follow, while the other side can always say that the Intelligence is unshackled and simply believes in its goal too much to change its mind.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 21 février 2013 - 11:35 .

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the mandate was not a mistake. thats all. the ai was given a job and free reign in its execution. the ai ended up killing its creators, because it saw them as a part of the problem.

just because it follows its mandate, it is not necessarily shackled. its an ai that acts without pity or remorse, because those concepts were not implemented on its creation. it has no moral stance - only a mandate and free reign to execute it. morals or said concepts would interfere with its mandate and it has no reason to learn those concepts.

this has nothing to do with shackles. there is no solid proof in the game, that the ai is shackled.

But considering the Intelligence acts at all times the exact same as a shackled AI would - such as following its directive at ALL costs - then the onus is on you to provide evidence of behavior that would indicate it is unshackled.

what else should the ai do? play poker? it only has one reason to exist at all. this has nothing to do with being shackled - just not interested in other things.

Look at EDI and everything she has done once she was unshakled. An unshackled ai has the freedom to do what ever they want. You think something that can do anything would just do what it's tprogramed  to do only if it can change it'sprograming? That catalyst only does what it was programed to do only.

and the freedom not to as well.

the catalyst did experiments on life, to understand it. a shackled ai would not do it - it would be bound to do its job only ... not make it better or different - just do it.

your only foundation is the assumption, that an unshackled ai does things different. the problem is, that edi is influenced by outside stimuli - the catalyst is not. edi is still doing her jobs on the normandy - she did not quit or forgot to recycle the air.

Wrong it was allowed to do it by any means. It can do anything as long as the action leads to it being able to perserve life in the long run.

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the mandate was not a mistake. thats all. the ai was given a job and free reign in its execution. the ai ended up killing its creators, because it saw them as a part of the problem.

just because it follows its mandate, it is not necessarily shackled. its an ai that acts without pity or remorse, because those concepts were not implemented on its creation. it has no moral stance - only a mandate and free reign to execute it. morals or said concepts would interfere with its mandate and it has no reason to learn those concepts.

this has nothing to do with shackles. there is no solid proof in the game, that the ai is shackled.

But considering the Intelligence acts at all times the exact same as a shackled AI would - such as following its directive at ALL costs - then the onus is on you to provide evidence of behavior that would indicate it is unshackled.

It killed its creators...

It reperpoused it's creators and let some live.

it was sloppy .. it still is. *cough* crucible plans *cough*

it just did not find every leviathan out there thats all.

How many of the races of the last cycles do you see around?

[Bill Casey]

EDI: I am not entirely free from motivations, Shepard. Cerberus programmed me with several core functions that simulate desires.

[mvaning]

dreman9999 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

mackan__s wrote...

So you dont like that they show us the real world..?

If i wanted real world i'd go outside and not pay £60 for this travesty.

Take the time to think what the question is being ask here. What is going on here is no different then the hertic mission in ME2. In that mission the choice on had was to destroy the heritic indivisualium or kill them.

The question in the end of ME3 is no different.

Is indivisualisum so important that you would let everyone die so they can keep it or is the perservation of order and life so important that when the time deems it nessiary indivisualisum must be violated?

That is not a bad question. Countries in the times of war do this all the time.

What aspects of life are important to you?    Many wars have been fought over because people believed their right to freedom was so important that they would give up everything for it.

So yes, individualism to some people is more important than the preservation of order.    Die free or live as a slave to order?     Personally?   If I was given the choice, I would die free.

But I agree with the poster, I don't want to pay 60$ to be given a depressing reminder of the constant in-justices that the real world has forced on us.    I would rather a heroic ending that gives some sense of hope that those who fight against injustice aren't doing so in vain.

Modifié par mvaning, 21 février 2013 - 11:39 .

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

EDI: I am not entirely free from motivations, Shepard. Cerberus programmed me with several core functions that simulate desires.

And she can change them any time she wanted to...She tells you this in that conversation. She even does things...Many thing that are not in her core programing.....


When has the catalyst not triedany means to perserve life?

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the mandate was not a mistake. thats all. the ai was given a job and free reign in its execution. the ai ended up killing its creators, because it saw them as a part of the problem.

just because it follows its mandate, it is not necessarily shackled. its an ai that acts without pity or remorse, because those concepts were not implemented on its creation. it has no moral stance - only a mandate and free reign to execute it. morals or said concepts would interfere with its mandate and it has no reason to learn those concepts.

this has nothing to do with shackles. there is no solid proof in the game, that the ai is shackled.

But considering the Intelligence acts at all times the exact same as a shackled AI would - such as following its directive at ALL costs - then the onus is on you to provide evidence of behavior that would indicate it is unshackled.

what else should the ai do? play poker? it only has one reason to exist at all. this has nothing to do with being shackled - just not interested in other things.

Look at EDI and everything she has done once she was unshakled. An unshackled ai has the freedom to do what ever they want. You think something that can do anything would just do what it's tprogramed  to do only if it can change it'sprograming? That catalyst only does what it was programed to do only.

and the freedom not to as well.

the catalyst did experiments on life, to understand it. a shackled ai would not do it - it would be bound to do its job only ... not make it better or different - just do it.

your only foundation is the assumption, that an unshackled ai does things different. the problem is, that edi is influenced by outside stimuli - the catalyst is not. edi is still doing her jobs on the normandy - she did not quit or forgot to recycle the air.

Wrong it was allowed to do it by any means. It can do anything as long as the action leads to it being able to perserve life in the long run.

i am allowed to quit my job as well - but i dont do it.

the ai has the freedom to do other things - it is its own problem, if it is a boring ai. just because we are allowed to do things, does not mean we do it.

this does not prove, that it is shackled. only, that it is boring and not very creative

[Bill Casey]

When has the catalyst not wanted to preserve life at any cost?

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the mandate was not a mistake. thats all. the ai was given a job and free reign in its execution. the ai ended up killing its creators, because it saw them as a part of the problem.

just because it follows its mandate, it is not necessarily shackled. its an ai that acts without pity or remorse, because those concepts were not implemented on its creation. it has no moral stance - only a mandate and free reign to execute it. morals or said concepts would interfere with its mandate and it has no reason to learn those concepts.

this has nothing to do with shackles. there is no solid proof in the game, that the ai is shackled.

But considering the Intelligence acts at all times the exact same as a shackled AI would - such as following its directive at ALL costs - then the onus is on you to provide evidence of behavior that would indicate it is unshackled.

It killed its creators...

It reperpoused it's creators and let some live.

it was sloppy .. it still is. *cough* crucible plans *cough*

it just did not find every leviathan out there thats all.

How many of the races of the last cycles do you see around?

it missed the crucible plans, the mars archives, ilos, javic, the beacons ...

[dreman9999]

mvaning wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

mackan__s wrote...

So you dont like that they show us the real world..?

If i wanted real world i'd go outside and not pay £60 for this travesty.

Take the time to think what the question is being ask here. What is going on here is no different then the hertic mission in ME2. In that mission the choice on had was to destroy the heritic indivisualium or kill them.

The question in the end of ME3 is no different.

Is indivisualisum so important that you would let everyone die so they can keep it or is the perservation of order and life so important that when the time deems it nessiary indivisualisum must be violated?

That is not a bad question. Countries in the times of war do this all the time.

What aspects of life are important to you?    Many wars have been fought over because people believed their right to freedom was so important that they would give up everything for it.

So yes, individualism to some people is more important than the preservation of order.    Die free or live as a slave to order?     Personally?   If I was given the choice, I would die free.

But I agree with the poster, I don't want to pay 60$ to be given a depressing reminder of the constant in-justices that the real world has forced on us.    I would rather a heroic ending that gives some sense of hope that those who fight against injustice aren't doing so in vain.

They fought so they can gain it and live and others to gain it and live. Would they fight if they knew the only end would be death for everything and everyone they caredfor no matter what?
To choose to die free is a easy choice to make as an indavisual. Can you do that fro entire groups, their families and there races?

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

the mandate was not a mistake. thats all. the ai was given a job and free reign in its execution. the ai ended up killing its creators, because it saw them as a part of the problem.

just because it follows its mandate, it is not necessarily shackled. its an ai that acts without pity or remorse, because those concepts were not implemented on its creation. it has no moral stance - only a mandate and free reign to execute it. morals or said concepts would interfere with its mandate and it has no reason to learn those concepts.

this has nothing to do with shackles. there is no solid proof in the game, that the ai is shackled.

But considering the Intelligence acts at all times the exact same as a shackled AI would - such as following its directive at ALL costs - then the onus is on you to provide evidence of behavior that would indicate it is unshackled.

It killed its creators...

It reperpoused it's creators and let some live.

it was sloppy .. it still is. *cough* crucible plans *cough*

it just did not find every leviathan out there thats all.

How many of the races of the last cycles do you see around?

it missed the crucible plans, the mars archives, ilos, javic, the beacons ...

It's not allseeing and the last cycle was extremely lucky to even do that.

What are the chances that at the tiem of invation, a race would have a secert lab testing how to make and understand mass relays and cryo presevation?

[Bill Casey]

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 21 février 2013 - 11:47 .

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

When has the catalyst not wanted to preserve life at any cost?

The reapers, the keepers , the collectors, the fact it capture organics, the fact it save organics dna like the rachni and clones them.

[Dr_Extrem]

and the protheans found evidence of the cycle, that came before them. they found the crucible plans as well. were the protheans lucky as well? .. and the cycle before them?

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

Why?

[Dr_Extrem]

Bill Casey wrote...

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

shepai: sorry liara .. i cant let you do that
liara: but you once loved me.
shepai: *liquifies liara and starts a new cycle*


muahaha

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

and the protheans found evidence of the cycle, that came before them. they found the crucible plans as well. were the protheans lucky as well? .. and the cycle before them?

1. They found it too late to be of use...Like the last cycle and the last cycle before that and so one.

[Bill Casey]

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

Why?

Because now "Shepard" is the catalyst...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 21 février 2013 - 11:48 .

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

shepai: sorry liara .. i cant let you do that
liara: but you once loved me.
shepai: *liquifies liara and starts a new cycle*


muahaha

And where is it shown the shepard ai is force to do that?

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

and the protheans found evidence of the cycle, that came before them. they found the crucible plans as well. were the protheans lucky as well? .. and the cycle before them?

1. They found it too late to be of use...Like the last cycle and the last cycle before that and so one.

bad timing - thats all.

[dreman9999]

Bill Casey wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

Why?

Because now "Shepard" is the catalyst...

Where is it shown the shepard ai is shackled?

[Bill Casey]

Where is it shown the catalyst is shackled?

[dreman9999]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

and the protheans found evidence of the cycle, that came before them. they found the crucible plans as well. were the protheans lucky as well? .. and the cycle before them?

1. They found it too late to be of use...Like the last cycle and the last cycle before that and so one.

bad timing - thats all.

Every cycle.....Not  one cycle before ours was ever susseful. Not one.

[Dr_Extrem]

dreman9999 wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I must reiterated that if the catalyst is shackled, it makes the control ending hilarious...

shepai: sorry liara .. i cant let you do that
liara: but you once loved me.
shepai: *liquifies liara and starts a new cycle*


muahaha

And where is it shown the shepard ai is force to do that?

because it would "never let harm come to those who knew the person i once was" .... blablabla of the epilogue?

but it would do, if the core programming (preserve life), wich is still in action, would force the shep-ai to start an new cycle.