Indy_S wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
Indy_S wrote...
I agree. We should nuke the rainforests to prevent genocidal environmentalists from acting out their plans. More seriously, though, I like the idea of holding the galaxy hostage.
catalyst lover..lol
Even to make that joke you are missing a whole lot of context.
Wayning_Star wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
the confusion with all this talk of anti diversity is the simple truth that we don't understand diversity.
Actually the ME game promotes and encourges diversity, the very opposite of the OP suggestion. Her premise decries the notion. The arguement is over before it starts. Only the signiture, myth and legend remain as support. Fantasy.
really? .. that was the ops point.
the game promotes and encourages diversity only to tell you at the end, that is is a concept, that is not working and has to be abandoned - decide how .. .now!
necessity breeds invention. The game asks for conclusions from information garnered from the catalyst observations. That is all it can do. It doesn't suggest anything, Many Sheps decide it does, but that is simply not true.
The OP is a shining example of that confusion, based on world view and paranoia. Human condition, or conditioning, via evolution. That is the trap, evolution in nature, the ulimate 'adversary'. We function in regards to our enviornment, be it diverse or not, leads to diversity as that is the way of nature it's self. Ther is no escape..
Unless you happen to run across a handy crucible and jump into a cosmic beam, a choice left to you by unknown agents.. take a chance, be diversive, change the nature of "things". Having 'intellect' has that effect, once self aware.
your first statement is right. but it only works to some degree. most species dont adapt to a changed environment and die out. less diversity is the outcome.
the catalyst "helped" the synthetics if they were not hostile enough ... "the old machine contacted us" ... it was altering the premise of its own experiment to make it fit to its theory.
the messages are still the same - diversity does not work (cause reasons and selffulfilling prophecy), abandon it.
you are confusing reaperships with the catalyst. Two distinct and different agents. The old machines are reaperships, it's their contract with the catalyst to perform the grizzlies of harvest, it's what they do, the catalyst observes changes,and apparent finds none, so the harvest is to continue. In the destroy choice, it informs Shep that the chaos will not be stopped in destroy.
reaperships .. controled by the catalyst ..
It is following its designed function.: Leviathan
you missed the point, the reaperships do the harvest, the catalyst observes for changes to end the chaos, if it finds none, the harvest continues.. via the tool set/ reaperships.
(who are, by the way, the harvested 'ascended' to the level of reaperships. This is the opinion OF reaperships,not the catalyst. It only observes the experiment, set forth by the Leviathan, inadvertantly. Pesky diversity on full stupid?)
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
Dr_Extrem wrote...
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
but synthesis gets rid of genetic diversity to impose order on the system.
Dr_Extrem wrote...
btw. the last part is headcanon .. nobody really knows how a post synthesis world really looks like.
Rhayak wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
btw. the last part is headcanon .. nobody really knows how a post synthesis world really looks like.
-.-
The cinematics talk only about harmony and prosperity and building a future beyond imagining. Every talk Synthbashers make about an eventual reignition of hostilities is mere convenience.
TheRealJayDee wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
Actually the ME game promotes and encourges diversity,
The games absolutely do. The endings however clash with that. Hence the problems...
maaaze wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
but synthesis gets rid of genetic diversity to impose order on the system.
no, genetic diversity is still present (krogan are still krogan, reapers are still reapers), it just gives us a way to understand each other better through borderless communication.
Indy_S wrote...
Rhayak wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
btw. the last part is headcanon .. nobody really knows how a post synthesis world really looks like.
-.-
The cinematics talk only about harmony and prosperity and building a future beyond imagining. Every talk Synthbashers make about an eventual reignition of hostilities is mere convenience.
And every inference that this isn't the case is horrifying. There are reasons Utopia doesn't work.
Wayning_Star wrote...
apples and oranges, as one diversity is better than another diversity..and that is supposed to considered anti diverse.
The OP is engaging in semantics as basis for arguement for/to the effect that bioware purposely founded anti diversity through the sythesis choice. AS if that is basis for unpinning freedom of choice absolutely.
An absolute assumption without evidence is speculation, but that still erases the basis of the OP. At most the story threatens anti diversity, but anti diversity is the threat to the MEU. From observations of the catalyst, the MEU is stuck in a rut by organics need to create synthetic life as tools not actually "alive" to acsend to the level of the great and powerful organic Apex races. All self inflicted wounds, apperntly a by product of evolution/nature.
Rhayak wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
btw. the last part is headcanon .. nobody really knows how a post synthesis world really looks like.
-.-
The cinematics talk only about harmony and prosperity and building a future beyond imagining. Every talk Synthbashers make about an eventual reignition of hostilities is mere convenience.
Dr_Extrem wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
but synthesis gets rid of genetic diversity to impose order on the system.
no, genetic diversity is still present (krogan are still krogan, reapers are still reapers), it just gives us a way to understand each other better through borderless communication.
superficial .. we all look different but we are all human and our genom is nearly identical. we share 98% of our genes with wild hogs.
understanding does not bring peace or anything else ...
acceptance and tolerance do.
Wayning_Star wrote...
Indy_S wrote...
Rhayak wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
btw. the last part is headcanon .. nobody really knows how a post synthesis world really looks like.
-.-
The cinematics talk only about harmony and prosperity and building a future beyond imagining. Every talk Synthbashers make about an eventual reignition of hostilities is mere convenience.
And every inference that this isn't the case is horrifying. There are reasons Utopia doesn't work.
well, we have to admit, we've never actuall tried one..sooo
Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 22 février 2013 - 12:51 .
Indy_S wrote...
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
That's not true at all. It requires tolerance.
Modifié par maaaze, 22 février 2013 - 12:56 .
Wayning_Star wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Dr_Extrem wrote...
maaaze wrote...
no, it means diversity requires understanding to work...(synthesis)
that is the massage.
but synthesis gets rid of genetic diversity to impose order on the system.
no, genetic diversity is still present (krogan are still krogan, reapers are still reapers), it just gives us a way to understand each other better through borderless communication.
superficial .. we all look different but we are all human and our genom is nearly identical. we share 98% of our genes with wild hogs.
understanding does not bring peace or anything else ...
acceptance and tolerance do.
uh..synthesis is based on acceptance and tolorance..
Indy_S wrote...
And every inference that this isn't the case is horrifying. There are reasons Utopia doesn't work.
maaaze wrote...
tolerance might be the next best thing to understanding but it is very fragile and more of the acknolgement of the differences instead of embracing them.
You can only embrace something you truly understand..
In the context of a Dark Energy motivation, I could see thematically-appropriate negotiations for both a Paragon and Renegade persuasion. Think of it in terms of a Crucible that can resolve the Dark Energy threat one way or another if used, but the use of it has heavy costs. If you have the conditions/war assets to fight out the war long enough at which the Dark Energy point of no return will kick off, you can negotiate with the Reapers.Indy_S wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...Move it beyond our particular cycle and put it in terms of all future cycles, ie 'All Future Life.' The Reapers might be willing to call our cycle a loss, but all future cycles?
This works better in a context of a motivation like Dark Energy, in which the Reaper preservationist goals are tied to keeping the galaxy in a state to continue supporting life, rather than individual species in particular. By threatening the galaxy, rather than yourselves, you're hitting their actual goals.
It would be, oh, comparable to forcing a genocidal environmentalist movement to stop their genocide (which is their means to saving Mother Nature) by threatening to destroy Mother Nature. Sure, you might die as well, but you'd die anyway if they had their way: it's the planet they really care about.
I agree. We should nuke the rainforests to prevent genocidal environmentalists from acting out their plans. More seriously, though, I like the idea of holding the galaxy hostage.
Rhayak wrote...
Indy_S wrote...
And every inference that this isn't the case is horrifying. There are reasons Utopia doesn't work.
Universal peace is a fairy tale, and weak writing, as i said elsewhere.
But there can be reasons for it's existence and continuation beyond 'brainwashing'. After all the main reasons, both real and fictitious, for waging wars are pretty much removed in the Synthesis ending.
Besides, if you're right, did the Reapers then 'brainwash' everyone into ushering in an era of peace and prosperity?
O_o
Rhayak wrote...
Universal peace is a fairy tale, and weak writing, as i said elsewhere.
But there can be reasons for it's existence and continuation beyond 'brainwashing'. After all the main reasons, both real and fictitious, for waging wars are pretty much removed in the Synthesis ending.
Besides, if you're right, did the Reapers then 'brainwash' everyone into ushering in an era of peace and prosperity?
O_o
Dean_the_Young wrote...
In the context of a Dark Energy motivation, I could see thematically-appropriate negotiations for both a Paragon and Renegade persuasion. Think of it in terms of a Crucible that can resolve the Dark Energy threat one way or another if used, but the use of it has heavy costs. If you have the conditions/war assets to fight out the war long enough at which the Dark Energy point of no return will kick off, you can negotiate with the Reapers.
Paragon works on addressing the problem in a cooperative manner: while promising to never give in and never give up, it makes the offer to the Reapers of 'work with us, and we can solve the problem.' You know, cooperation and all that.
Renegade, however, goes Dirty Harry: either threatening to use the Dark Energy Crucible, or indeed putting it in terms of holding the galaxy hostage. 'Will fighting you to the end destroy the galaxy? Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't know. But I've got one question for you, Catalyst... feeling lucky, punk?'
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