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Biowares anti-diversity message.


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#501
Loreshield

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EntropicAngel wrote...

 Grow up, children.

To say that THE CATALYST'S point of view is BIOWARE'S point of view is nothing short of ignorance--and if not that, then stupidity.

It's called writing a villian, folks.

In addition, do you even know what they choice "Destroy" means? It means you reject that premise.

The game supports you being able to reject that premise.


It is not Bioware's mesage. You are wrong.


...This.

Seriously, every time I think it can not possibly get any more insane around here...

#502
Wayning_Star

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Indy_S wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

Universal peace is a fairy tale, and weak writing, as i said elsewhere.
But there can be reasons for it's existence and continuation beyond 'brainwashing'. After all the main reasons, both real and fictitious, for waging wars are pretty much removed in the Synthesis ending. 

Besides, if you're right, did the Reapers then 'brainwash' everyone into ushering in an era of peace and prosperity?

O_o


This seems similar to 'conflict created a Utopia without conflict'. That's a fine instance of irony. And if there is no more conflict, on any level, life as we knew it is over.


well, we could try it.. lets say a 30 day trial period.. Return if not utterly deligted!!Image IPB

#503
Rhayak

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This seems similar to 'conflict created a Utopia without conflict'. That's a fine instance of irony. And if there is no more conflict, on any level, life as we knew it is over.



I don't think Lions will stop jumping Zebras post-Synthesis.

I mean, the whole reason behind Synthesis is to build a bridge between Creators and Created.  All other lifeforms might want to keep eating each other.

At least i hope so....

Modifié par Rhayak, 22 février 2013 - 01:06 .


#504
Wayning_Star

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Loreshield wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

 Grow up, children.

To say that THE CATALYST'S point of view is BIOWARE'S point of view is nothing short of ignorance--and if not that, then stupidity.

It's called writing a villian, folks.

In addition, do you even know what they choice "Destroy" means? It means you reject that premise.

The game supports you being able to reject that premise.


It is not Bioware's mesage. You are wrong.


...This.

Seriously, every time I think it can not possibly get any more insane around here...


one flew over into the Koo Koo's nest... Image IPB

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 22 février 2013 - 01:11 .


#505
Dr_Extrem

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Rhayak wrote...


This seems similar to 'conflict created a Utopia without conflict'. That's a fine instance of irony. And if there is no more conflict, on any level, life as we knew it is over.



I don't think Lions will stop jumping Zebras post-Synthesis.

I mean, the whole reason behind Synthesis is to build a bridge between Creators and Created.  All other lifeforms might want to keep eating each other.

Or at least i hope so....


good question ... if synthesis creates unlimited understanding, the lion will understand the fear of the zebra as well.

#506
Wayning_Star

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

Rhayak wrote...


This seems similar to 'conflict created a Utopia without conflict'. That's a fine instance of irony. And if there is no more conflict, on any level, life as we knew it is over.



I don't think Lions will stop jumping Zebras post-Synthesis.

I mean, the whole reason behind Synthesis is to build a bridge between Creators and Created.  All other lifeforms might want to keep eating each other.

Or at least i hope so....




good question ... if synthesis creates unlimited understanding, the lion will understand the fear of the zebra as well.

I think the Lion might in any event, but just plain don't care..dinnertime is evolution at it's nidus.Image IPB

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 22 février 2013 - 01:10 .


#507
Indy_S

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

good question ... if synthesis creates unlimited understanding, the lion will understand the fear of the zebra as well.


Or the zebra will understand the inevitability of giving its life to the lion. It just wants to survive, after all.

#508
Wayning_Star

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Indy_S wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

good question ... if synthesis creates unlimited understanding, the lion will understand the fear of the zebra as well.


Or the zebra will understand the inevitability of giving its life to the lion. It just wants to survive, after all.


Must be why cats can hypnotize birds... chomp! mmmm thanks..(stupid bird ;)

#509
Dr_Extrem

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Indy_S wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

good question ... if synthesis creates unlimited understanding, the lion will understand the fear of the zebra as well.


Or the zebra will understand the inevitability of giving its life to the lion. It just wants to survive, after all.


well i would call this a conflict of interests.

maybe the zebra and the lion discuss it over some grass and the body of a dead human?

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 22 février 2013 - 01:15 .


#510
Wayning_Star

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Next Hot Multi Player DLC

Operation Anti Diversity

#511
Mazebook

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Indy_S wrote...

maaaze wrote...

tolerance might be the next best thing to understanding but it is very fragile and more of the acknolgement of the differences instead of embracing them.
You can only embrace something you truly understand..


As an example, I understand that there are a diverse range of issues with the ending. Many people do. Some, however, are intolerant in regards to these issues. They understand them fine. 'You think Synthesis is an abomination? Well that's just ludditism.' That's not an issue about understanding. Diversity requires tolerance above all.


I guess what i am trying to say is that you can not truly tolerate something without understanding it.
To tolerate something without understanding it will always lead to misunderstandings over time .

for example you can tolerate the geth...but their reasoning and doing will always be alien to you if you can not undertand and relate to them. which can lead to a point were your tolerance will eventually break.

You need a common ground for understanding. As i see it, Synthesis is that common ground between A.I and Organics. A way to communicate that is not only binary or organic based. It is a new way to understand each other, equally owned by both partys.

#512
Rhayak

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The Zebra's post-Synth wisdom might go as deep as: "I die so that my descendants may become faster."

Modifié par Rhayak, 22 février 2013 - 01:20 .


#513
shodiswe

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Conflict is created when at least one party/group/whatever separates them from the others, be it social group, religion, etnicity, language, has a tough time and is facing hardship of some type.

People never want to blame themselves for those issues so they project it on others, sometimes there might be some sliver of truth to it. Sometimes it's just a conveniet target for their frustrations.

The Hitlernattzziss genocides.

The hoto/tutsi genocides in Rwanda

Jugoslavia...

But there is also a small amount of truth in the claim that the greater the differences the easier it is for a conflict to spark up. Even if the differences in culture or other factors arn't the direct reason, it can catalyze the effect when people feel less conection to this other person it's harder to forgive or see the person behind the mask of culture or whatever it is that sets them appart.

People who get pressed into a corner tend to look for simple, direct solutions.
It's also a part of humannature that's very... Let's just say it's everywhere in todays society but it can take several different forms. It doesn't have to be about race/etnicity, it could be distrust or dislike or lawyers, politicians, bankers.. Whatever, and people say. Lets tax them to death! the Fatbasturds have been sucking us dry long enough.
The French revolution killed a lot of people not because they were of a different etnicity or culture but because they were of a different social group.
The French revolution was sparked by a series of event's like failed harvests, finanicial crisis, poverty, diseses and poor sanitation(which of course "catalyzed" the spread of diseases)
When bakers charged high prices for bread because flour was very expensive and fresh clean water was hard to get then they got sent to guiljotines by angrymobs that stormed their shops.

It's usualy easier to blame someone else than to fix the problem yourself, especialy when there is no easy or perhaps even no viable fix.

When animals get marginalized then they try to aquire another individuals territory, resources and or females and whatever other resources, hoping that will improve their situation. Are we that different from animals?

Considering the Earth has a growing population and dwindling resources and a "hardpressed" ecosystem I can't say the future looks very bright. People don't nessesarily stop having a lot of children because they are starving and people don't sit down and wait for their death peacefully, unless ofcourse they are too weak physicly and/or mentaly to move or do anything about it. The Drell even if they are just a fictional species from the mass effect universe almost went extinct due to this problem. They survived because the Hanar saved a few of their people, (far less than the amount of quarrians that fleed the Geth).

Edit: I've avoided this thread because it's so sad to think about it, because there is a lot of truth in how dire the situation is really is. Everyone want's to avoid the issue, truth be told, because it represents the worst of what we are, that which we become when our basic needs are no longer satisfied.

Modifié par shodiswe, 22 février 2013 - 01:25 .


#514
Indy_S

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Rhayak wrote...

The Zebra's post-Synth wisdom might go as deep as: "I die so that my descendants may become faster."


According to the Catalyst, it is the 'final evolution'. They are unlikely to get any faster.

#515
Dr_Extrem

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Rhayak wrote...

The Zebra's post-Synth wisdom might go as deep as: "I die so that my descendants may become faster."


why should they become faster? this does not make sense.

#516
Wayning_Star

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Whould destroying the life form catalyst be anti diversive? It has a right to exist in the universe just like any planet, solar system? It should have a right to choose, be self determined.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 22 février 2013 - 01:22 .


#517
Wayning_Star

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

The Zebra's post-Synth wisdom might go as deep as: "I die so that my descendants may become faster."


why should they become faster? this does not make sense.


out run the Lion?

#518
Indy_S

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Whould destroying the life form catalyst be anti diversive? It has a right to exist in the universe just like any planet, solar system? It should have a right to choose, be self determined.


It determined a path that prevented co-existance.

Thankyou Legion for providing great lines to paraphrase.

#519
Rhayak

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Dr_Extrem wrote...

why should they become faster? this does not make sense.


It's how Darwinism works: slower Zebras get eaten, while the faster survive and get to breed = the species as a whole tends to get faster.

About the final evolution: if organic life has indeed reached a "dead end", to use a horrible term, then perhaps it'll be able to keep evolving anyway through continued technological progress. That marries pretty well to the newfound harmony with synthetics.

And no, that doesn't have to mean The Borg.

#520
Dubozz

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Good post OP, thanks.

#521
Konfined

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Wayning_Star wrote...

Whould destroying the life form catalyst be anti diversive? It has a right to exist in the universe just like any planet, solar system? It should have a right to choose, be self determined.

Its right to exist ended the moment it began determining the right to exist for others.  Now it is simply a target to be eliminated.  Perfect example of kill or be killed.

#522
Wayning_Star

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Indy_S wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

The Zebra's post-Synth wisdom might go as deep as: "I die so that my descendants may become faster."


According to the Catalyst, it is the 'final evolution'. They are unlikely to get any faster.


final evolution for synthetics getting back to their creators...not organics however,there is no hope for them..lol

utopias suck!!

#523
Dr_Extrem

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shodiswe wrote...

Conflict is created when at least one party/group/whatever separates them from the others, be it social group, religion, etnicity, language, has a tough time and is facing hardship of some type.


but synthesis (if it does not effect the mindsets), does not stop people form forming new groups within the society.

- i doubt that hanar are suddenly not religious anymore.
- will turians stop having their "colonial attitude"?
- will humans stop to poof their value?

and synthetics are still synthetics .. the only thing that changes, is that they now understand us. thats all ... understanding does not prevent conflict. i may bmakes it harder for conflict to arise - but thats all.

#524
Wayning_Star

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Konfined wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Whould destroying the life form catalyst be anti diversive? It has a right to exist in the universe just like any planet, solar system? It should have a right to choose, be self determined.

Its right to exist ended the moment it began determining the right to exist for others.  Now it is simply a target to be eliminated.  Perfect example of kill or be killed.


hence the term anti diversity.

It's what I'm talking about when complaining of argument through semantics. Besides the catalyst didn't decide, it's creators, thrall saving Leviathan thought that scheme up. lol

#525
MrStoob

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Do BioWare advocate shooting people in the face to resolve difficult situations because they wrote that into the story? I wouldn't think so. It's fiction, where at times writers like to explore the darker sides of life but that doesn't mean a writer believes that to be a correct course of action or morality.