582 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

Dragon Age doesn't make you join in on the slaughter (well, except for the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC)
 
Or turn the Warden into the next Archdemon

Or turn everyone on Thedas into Awakened darkspawn..

DA story is not finished yet. Added, it does allow you to commit genocide twice over and enforce a police state rule with a governement thatcan enslave peoples souls.

[Nerevar-as]

dreman9999 wrote...

As long as you understand they are not forcing you to agree with the catalyst. Call the ending what you want, it will make no difference.

Agree with its ideology? No. Being forced to follow it? Yes. One way or the other the Starbrat´s terms are met.

And beware of Dragon Age. Remember the Architect´s plan was Synthesis.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...

We were never forced to agree. We were only forced to choose or have the galexy die. If you don't agree with what there,pick refuse, rage quit and write your own ending.

So we're only forced to agree if we want to save the galaxy in-game, thanks for clarifying

[Hadeedak]

I hate to be that guy, but it's not as though "Inability to understand something truly alien, no matter how familiar it seems, leads to conflict" is a new message for science fiction.

The interesting part is usually how we resolve it, and reactions when/if understanding is reached.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

We were never forced to agree. We were only forced to choose or have the galexy die. If you don't agree with what there,pick refuse, rage quit and write your own ending.

So we're only forced to agree if we want to save the galaxy in-game, thanks for clarifying

Your not forced to agree at all. You're just force to choose. You don't need to agree with what you choose.

[Wayning_Star]

Reorte wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I say this thread deserves a stan lock.

yeah, it's turned into another boooo synthesis thread..got plenty of those on board..

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

The lack of any ability to really question it, combined with what appears to result in the best option, appears to support the OP. Another example is the geth - everything about changing their completely unique yet valid method of working to be much more like us is portrayed as entirely positive for them, at least once you've kicked out the direct Reaper controlling them part.

The real question is will synthesis or any other apex type concept actually upend diversity, or freedom of choice.

It won't, the universe,nature and evolution is too big an issue to compartmentalize. Eventually different stuff will evolve, apparently and there'll be another ME game to play..

folks needs to 'get back to the land'.. The flat earth theory has been mostly debunked!!

[dreman9999]

Nerevar-as wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

As long as you understand they are not forcing you to agree with the catalyst. Call the ending what you want, it will make no difference.

Agree with its ideology? No. Being forced to follow it? Yes. One way or the other the Starbrat´s terms are met.

And beware of Dragon Age. Remember the Architect´s plan was Synthesis.

1. The architect plan was to free his people.
2.In a do or die situation what else could you do. Saying the ending of ME3 is anit-diversity is like saying the geth mission in ME2 and the arrival mission is anti-diversity.

It's not about doing what you like to do, it's about doing what you have to do to save as many people as you can.

[Wayning_Star]

saving the galaxy? good luck with that.. changing it..maybe, if you choose correctly, it'll vary for bit... a cost of interactivity.

and it's 'immersed in the game' not submerged into the game..

[Cainhurst Crow]

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

Dragon Age doesn't make you join in on the slaughter (well, except for the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC)
 
Or turn the Warden into the next Archdemon

Or turn everyone on Thedas into Awakened darkspawn..

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

[BD Manchild]

OP: Yup, that's pretty much what the endings are saying, and it still sickens me to my stomach. We'll never know for sure if it's intentional or not, but it's still a disgusting message to send out.

Modifié par BD Manchild, 21 février 2013 - 07:51 .

[Nerevar-as]

Wayning_Star wrote...
The real question is will synthesis or any other apex type concept actually upend diversity, or freedom of choice.

It won't, the universe,nature and evolution is too big an issue to compartmentalize. Eventually different stuff will evolve, apparently and there'll be another ME game to play..

folks needs to 'get back to the land'.. The flat earth theory has been mostly debunked!!

Freedom of choice is answered. Just look at Javik.

Evolution? No idea. Maybe a virus will evolve from scratch, attack the tech-organic unions and target every living being in the galaxy. Fast forward some tens of millions of years and you can do another ME.

And the world is on the back of four elephants standing on a turtle. So yeah, it´s flat.

[Dusen]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm not sure the ending means what the OP thinks it means. Shepard is free to think that the Catalyst is wrong and always has been.

Is Shepard really free though? If he chooses to reject the Catalyst's racism then he dies. Also, this isn't really a matter of what Shepard would think, it's a matter of what the developers were thinking when they made the seemingly "good" ending to be the complete removal of any and all diversity, all the way down to the level of DNA.

Control doesn't reduce diversity, and Destroy is only temporary since new AIs will be constructed soon enough.

Yes, control doesn't reduce diversity, instead it imposes a dictatorship over the races backed by a god-like Reaper-Shepard . . . all still based on the faulty, racist premise that diversity, without strict control, will lead to destruction. As for destroy, what you are saying about the Geth is ridiculous. It's similar to someone wiping out people of asian descent only to state that in time, their features will return to the gene-pool through mutation. . . and that somehow makes it okay?

[dreman9999]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

Dragon Age doesn't make you join in on the slaughter (well, except for the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC)
 
Or turn the Warden into the next Archdemon

Or turn everyone on Thedas into Awakened darkspawn..

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

Don't forget that da:o is the same game you can commit genoside on elves and mages and ture a dwaven kingdon into a police state which can enslave peoples souls.

Modifié par dreman9999, 21 février 2013 - 07:52 .

[Bill Casey]

Groundskeeper: "It would be so much easier if we all had the same dna, but nooo the universe loves diversity"

Modifié par Bill Casey, 21 février 2013 - 07:55 .

[Nerevar-as]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

More likely because you are forced to follow those choices, or in the future someone else will anyway.

And personally I don´t find the writing racist, just something incredibly stupid thinking itself incredibly smart.

[dreman9999]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

More likely because you are forced to follow those choices, or in the future someone else will anyway.

And personally I don´t find the writing racist, just something incredibly stupid thinking itself incredibly smart.

Bioware made the player do the same choices in legions loyalty mission in ME2 and in arrival.

And some how NOW they are anti-diversity?

[Nitrocuban]

Starbrat is kinda Uber-Racist.
It's up to the player to prove him wrong.

[Wayning_Star]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
The real question is will synthesis or any other apex type concept actually upend diversity, or freedom of choice.

It won't, the universe,nature and evolution is too big an issue to compartmentalize. Eventually different stuff will evolve, apparently and there'll be another ME game to play..

folks needs to 'get back to the land'.. The flat earth theory has been mostly debunked!!

Freedom of choice is answered. Just look at Javik.

Evolution? No idea. Maybe a virus will evolve from scratch, attack the tech-organic unions and target every living being in the galaxy. Fast forward some tens of millions of years and you can do another ME.

And the world is on the back of four elephants standing on a turtle. So yeah, it´s flat.

there you go, trusty diversity..now why they educate doctors to unravel pesky virus must be evolutionary. Upend natures version of diversity?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

More likely because you are forced to follow those choices, or in the future someone else will anyway.

And personally I don´t find the writing racist, just something incredibly stupid thinking itself incredibly smart.

I can understand not liking the choices, my only problem is people thinking that bioware sees diversity as wrong and that they frown upon it. And that they use out of context examples the motivations of the villian of the game, to justify this assertion.

Also framing the whole argument as if only destroy and synthesis were the only present choices, when control and refuse exist. And claiming you can't disagree with these claims, when you very clearly can in the dialouge choices.

[Legbiter]

Wait, the main villain is a meanie?

I am stunned and outraged.

[Dusen]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

Dragon Age doesn't make you join in on the slaughter (well, except for the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC)
 
Or turn the Warden into the next Archdemon

Or turn everyone on Thedas into Awakened darkspawn..

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

No, what he's stating is that Bioware only presented (at first) these three racist choices as though they were in fact righteous decisions with noble outcomes. We have little choice but to accept the racist ideals of the antagonist, in effect allowing the antagonist to win. Bioware even presents the synthesis ending (where diversity is essentially removed all the way down to the level of DNA) as the best outcome, the "true" ending if you will. That is why many of us are associating the racist ideals of the antagonist with the actual beliefs of Bioware. . . not because those are the views of the villian, but because Bioware, through the game and the choices we are given, actually makes it seem as though they believe that the villian is right.

[Wayning_Star]

I hope the OP opinion piece isn't just another canned anti synthesis 'last straw' scenerio.. why would a video game interest someone threatened in such a way, seems like they'd have more pressing matters to attend to than discourse on the BSN?

Are they playing ME at the United Nations?

[Nerevar-as]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I can understand not liking the choices, my only problem is people thinking that bioware sees diversity as wrong and that they frown upon it. And that they use out of context examples the motivations of the villian of the game, to justify this assertion.

Also framing the whole argument as if only destroy and synthesis were the only present choices, when control and refuse exist. And claiming you can't disagree with these claims, when you very clearly can in the dialouge choices.

It´s the Unfortunate Implications trope, at full strenght. All endings have it.

[dreman9999]

Dusen wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

Dragon Age doesn't make you join in on the slaughter (well, except for the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC)
 
Or turn the Warden into the next Archdemon

Or turn everyone on Thedas into Awakened darkspawn..

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

No, what he's stating is that Bioware only presented (at first) these three racist choices as though they were in fact righteous decisions with noble outcomes. We have little choice but to accept the racist ideals of the antagonist, in effect allowing the antagonist to win. Bioware even presents the synthesis ending (where diversity is essentially removed all the way down to the level of DNA) as the best outcome, the "true" ending if you will. That is why many of us are associating the racist ideals of the antagonist with the actual beliefs of Bioware. . . not because those are the views of the villian, but because Bioware, through the game and the choices we are given, actually makes it seem as though they believe that the villian is right.

No they did not. They never made these choices look noble. They onlymade the choices nessary to save the galexy. They never made them to be moral choices.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Dusen wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

That, and saying that the villians mindset is the same as bioware's mindset.

That's like saying bioware promotes genocide because the darkspawn in dragon age want to wipe out life on thedas.

It's just stupid, as was pointed out above.

Dragon Age doesn't make you join in on the slaughter (well, except for the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC)
 
Or turn the Warden into the next Archdemon

Or turn everyone on Thedas into Awakened darkspawn..

So what your saying is, because you don't like the ending choices, suddenly bioware is racist and anti-diversity, because the villain proclaims these facts.

No, what he's stating is that Bioware only presented (at first) these three racist choices as though they were in fact righteous decisions with noble outcomes. We have little choice but to accept the racist ideals of the antagonist, in effect allowing the antagonist to win. Bioware even presents the synthesis ending (where diversity is essentially removed all the way down to the level of DNA) as the best outcome, the "true" ending if you will. That is why many of us are associating the racist ideals of the antagonist with the actual beliefs of Bioware. . . not because those are the views of the villian, but because Bioware, through the game and the choices we are given, actually makes it seem as though they believe that the villian is right.

So when bioware made you have to pick between brainwashing and genocide in ME2, and had both affirmed by legion as good choices, that was different how?

Also, your assertion of synthesis I find false and lacking evidence. In Me3, high ems destroy takes the most ems to achive, not synthesis. Had the reverse been true, your argument would contain more cloat, but it is not the case.

And I never found synthesis as presented in an appealing way, that strikes me much more as projecting than anything else.