Unless the female turians have less shealth/shields than the guys (I'm not discounting this, be it error like Quarian marksman, or "lore") yeah, I agree with this. She'll be pretty durable. Not likely krogard tough, but she might have a dodge. She has a lot of potential to be very tanky, and the potential pleases me. I'm not placing bets on it though. <.<Cyonan wrote...
Constant Motion wrote...
Weapons experts that just wap a power on and leave it aren't common at all, though. Tactical Cloak, used aggressively, is a weapon souper-upper. Just like Marksman, just like Adrenaline Rush. I don't think it's fair to argue that infiltrators are a power class at the same time as lauding soldiers for their weapon-dependent playstyle. All characters make some use of powers, and I can only name three who can activate multiple powers and forget about them.Rebel_Raven wrote...
Oh, no, it's not that I don't want to count them as a weapons class. They are weapons platforms, but they are power spammy weapons platforms.
I mean lets look at the Geth who get a constant weapon buff mode. Or the Destroyer. Less power spam reliance, and better weapon use via those powers.
Sure Soldiers need to use AR, and marksmanship a lot, but the power's damage boost does last longer than tac cloaks, so they spam their powers less often.
Power spam for peak damage is power spam for peak damage, bluntly.
I will give you the fact that Tac Cloak can't be dodged, and never misses, doesn't get negated by protective bubbles, and such so it's not like having to hurl warp, or throw repeatedly.
It's not situational like having to get within meters of enemies like Annihillation field either.
Tac cloak is a good power, but it's activation is required enoough to be considered spammy.
Exactly, and the difference between AR and TC isn't all that much. 4 seconds min for TC(assuming you never use up any of the duration of your cloak) and about 6-7 for Adrenaline Rush if you spec melee at rank 5 like I do.
I don't really think it's fair to call them power spammy just because TC has a short cooldown, when it gives such a massive boost to weapon damage and their powers are used primarily to buff up their weapon damage.
On the other side, if the Female Turian is the Vanguard, then she's going to be pretty tough regardless of her other 2 abilities simply because Biotic Charge + Turian health.
Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 22 février 2013 - 03:10 .
Rebel_Raven wrote...
Unless the female turians have less shealth/shields than the guys (I'm not discounting this, be it error like Quarian marksman, or "lore") yeah, I agree with this. She'll be pretty durable. Not likely krogard tough, but she might have a dodge. She has a lot of potential to be very tanky, and the potential pleases me. I'm not placing bets on it though. <.<
I've said what I have to say about tac cloak. The damage boost is all too brief for me to put it up there with AR, or marksman, or Hunter Mode, and so on. Every second counts.
Further Tac Cloak requires lots and lots of activation. More so than comparable damage boosting powers.
Guest_manbearpig654_*
PKchu wrote...
I really wanted a new quarian who had biotic powers (a female would be cool), but the last DLC had too many fluff characters.
If it's six pure quality characters, then I guess that's better than 16 medicore ones.
PoetryAvenger wrote...
Bosh'tet please, six is plenty.
Cyonan wrote...
They should surprise us with 16 pure quality characters.
They did say that Reckoning has the most new powers, and Earth had 13 over 6 characters.
Cyonan wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
Unless the female turians have less shealth/shields than the guys (I'm not discounting this, be it error like Quarian marksman, or "lore") yeah, I agree with this. She'll be pretty durable. Not likely krogard tough, but she might have a dodge. She has a lot of potential to be very tanky, and the potential pleases me. I'm not placing bets on it though. <.<
I've said what I have to say about tac cloak. The damage boost is all too brief for me to put it up there with AR, or marksman, or Hunter Mode, and so on. Every second counts.
Further Tac Cloak requires lots and lots of activation. More so than comparable damage boosting powers.
Well it's worth noting that every Vanguard without a dodge(all 2 of them) has a secondary DR effect, which is all that's needed to achieve nigh immortality since they're guarantee'd to have Biotic Charge.
Being a Turian also means 2 things: Increased health/shields and an amazing weapon based passive. On the off-chance that we see a Quarian Marksman repeat, she will most certainly be buffed to compensate for it(possibly in even more DR, which would actually be better than having Turian Male base shields).
At the very least you should at least try these characters before being seemingly determined to be unhappy that you didn't get two very specific character setups(even though there is a female character with Adrenaline Rush who is an amazing weapons user and a female who can take a full Scion burst on Gold and only break shields).
We don't always get the exact things that we wanted =P
Modifié par Rebel_Raven, 22 février 2013 - 04:34 .
Rebel_Raven wrote...
That and being consistently burned has taught me not to get hyped.
No new female soldier ever, no new female quarian ever, female units being in more and more of the minority with less and less solid variety, often getting nothing new. Heck, huntress only got something new (and arguably an improvement I'm sure) because she was bugged to begin with.
I'm not determined to be unhappy, I -am- unhappy. I'm not mad. Dissapointed, sure.
I know what I want, and -another- infiltrator is very unlikely to be it. Having to use cloak every time I want to shoot for better damage for a small window of extra damage is not fun anymore. I never liked the idea in the first place, honestly.
Human Soldier is one unit, and I want variety. It's as simple as that.
Valkyrie is a grand unit provided she's up close to debuff. Warp is way too unreliable, and she has no bonus to weapons, so she really needs to rely on her AF to get those debuffs in for that extra damage. Large maps really hurt this.
I just want to have a variety of ranges to do large amounts of weapon based or instant (Or very near instant) damage instead which is immensely needed.
Sure we have fine units, but their tactics don't differ enough, and it's usually reliant on dots, having someone else for detonating to detonate quickly, and tac cloak when immediate, or near heavy damage is oft needed.
I want a quick damage unit that doesn't rely on biotic/tech explosions. I.E. weapons, or powers like flamer.
Explosions are nice, but melting armored units with a rock and roll weapon booster power, and such is something I'd like on more than one or two units.
Tac Cloak doesn't have enough duration for the extra damage.
What is it with bioware and female infiltrators? Why do we get so many?!
I want a monster! A weapons expert that can be on par with a lot of other male/robot units that specialize in weapons, and has above average durability.
As much as I'm not getting what I want, I think I have room for some gripes.
He makes sense sometimes. You get hyped you set yourself for being let down.Cyonan wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
That and being consistently burned has taught me not to get hyped.
No new female soldier ever, no new female quarian ever, female units being in more and more of the minority with less and less solid variety, often getting nothing new. Heck, huntress only got something new (and arguably an improvement I'm sure) because she was bugged to begin with.
I'm not determined to be unhappy, I -am- unhappy. I'm not mad. Dissapointed, sure.
I know what I want, and -another- infiltrator is very unlikely to be it. Having to use cloak every time I want to shoot for better damage for a small window of extra damage is not fun anymore. I never liked the idea in the first place, honestly.
Human Soldier is one unit, and I want variety. It's as simple as that.
Valkyrie is a grand unit provided she's up close to debuff. Warp is way too unreliable, and she has no bonus to weapons, so she really needs to rely on her AF to get those debuffs in for that extra damage. Large maps really hurt this.
I just want to have a variety of ranges to do large amounts of weapon based or instant (Or very near instant) damage instead which is immensely needed.
Sure we have fine units, but their tactics don't differ enough, and it's usually reliant on dots, having someone else for detonating to detonate quickly, and tac cloak when immediate, or near heavy damage is oft needed.
I want a quick damage unit that doesn't rely on biotic/tech explosions. I.E. weapons, or powers like flamer.
Explosions are nice, but melting armored units with a rock and roll weapon booster power, and such is something I'd like on more than one or two units.
Tac Cloak doesn't have enough duration for the extra damage.
What is it with bioware and female infiltrators? Why do we get so many?!
I want a monster! A weapons expert that can be on par with a lot of other male/robot units that specialize in weapons, and has above average durability.
As much as I'm not getting what I want, I think I have room for some gripes.
I'm pretty sure that you are supposed to take basically everything Yahtzee says with a grain of salt =P
I'm not saying everybody should be hyped for it, but I can't understand the logic behind people harping on the DLC and being dissappointed before it's even been released.
We've been through this dicussion a dozen times and I've mentioned plenty of women that can use weapons very effectively, but every time I do, you have some reason to remain unhappy about the situation.
Talking about casters that do high damage without needing combos you aren't talking about a whole lot of characters male or female, and the vast majority of them are made up of grenadiers which include the N7 Demolisher and Asari Vanguard.
Asari Justicar also has a bit of extra weapon damage from her passive, and while she doesn't rock incredibly high weapon damage from abilities(unless you use Warp Rounds in which case she can nearly match Adrenaline Rush's damage boost) she is incredibly durable. Throw up a defensive Biotic Sphere with a Reave and you have massive amounts of damage reduction plus very fast barrier regeneration. While in cover she has DR on par with the Krogan Vanguard in Rage(who will never be in cover because he needs to Biotic Charge).
and yeah, I mentioned consumables there, but the truth is that if you want to be a weapons beast on Gold+ you gotta use them unless you're confining yourself to very specific weapons like the Harrier(or are very skilled). Even the famed N7 Destroyer needs them, because they simply add way too much damage to not take them.
Looking forward we're at minimum getting a Female Turian and a Feminine robot to the Geth's masculine robot. Nobody knows what the Talon Merc is, the 6th character, or if there are more than 6 characters. Again I'm not saying people should all be incredibly hyped but being overly pessimistic is just as pointless as being overly optimistic.
The BSN begged and begged for their female characters(especially Turian once Omega hit), and now that we've gotten them I've seen mostly complaints and people being unhappy with them.
My CDO likes this human. He understands.BleedingUranium wrote...
We're short a Sentinel and Vanguard, so maybe eight?
DJ Airsurfer wrote...
xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...
DoubleHell wrote...
What we really want is...
I mean if they can put in an EDI / EVA class infiltrator bot (of which I'd assume there aren't that many of anyway), surely they can squeeze in you know who
For the Empire!
We need green biotics, BioWare.
Rebel_Raven wrote...
He makes sense sometimes. You get hyped you set yourself for being let down.
Yes, I pick apart your suggestions because they aren't what I'm craving, wanting, or needing. They just aren't. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades as the saying goes.
I respect your opinions, and what you say is right, but you're trying to sell me something that doesn't fit the bill, so it's just not going to work. I'm tired of settling while non-female units just don't have to.
Everything is so situational with the suggestions. I don't want astericts next to boasts about durability, damage output, etc. coz they only work in certain situations.
I gotta push for more since Bioware seems hard pressed to deliver. DLC Female Soldier. Why is that so elusive? You don't have to answer.
I know we need/should use consumeables, but bringing consumeables to catch up means those same consumeables can take someone that much farther. That's not helping anything.
As far as Female Turians, I'm glad we're getting them. I really am! I'm not complaining about them, themselves. It really is a victory that they're included! And a Gynoid who could have an excuse to be armored/durable, too!
I just worry about their mechanics since the female turian's said to be a vanguard. Bioware stumbled before. They may stumble again.
Honestly, I play off host a lot while my partner hosts. Vanguards aren't too off host friendly, but damned if I won't try and make it work if she's not mysteriously squishy/bugged, or something like that. Maybe even then! If I like a unit, I'll use her. Simple as that.
And then another female infiltrator. Augh. Don't we have enough of them? Can't they be utilized elsewhere? I just hope that the gynoid has some powers that make her something that stands out among the other infiltrators like the huntress, and shadow have.
Again don't get me wrong! I like who we have, and they are good units, but my point about their similarities tends to stand. Most rely on DoT damage, don't have fast acting enemy melting powers (I.E. Flamer), don't supply their gun with immense firepower for long (Something that isn't tactical cloak. Yes, we have AR, but I want another power on another character. Variety! <.<), so on. I've said it all before, though not likely all at once. It's not going to change until Bioware delivers.
I can't help being overly pessimistic about this. I had my faith in Bioware shattered. They wandered a long way from where I thought they were 9 months ago.
It's not something that'll get pieced back together easily, and, well, this seems like Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer's last go at it. Will it happen? I can't say it's likely, but I won't say it's impossible either.
Someone has to be negative about this DLC anyhow.
Yes, I know Yahtzee well, and appreciate his style.Cyonan wrote...
He usually has something of a point, but almost always plays up being negative about things for comedic value =P
You know what I didn't get over the course of the last 5 DLC?
I didn't get the exact tank I wanted either, but the Kroguard comes about as close as Tactical Cloak does for you.
I didn't get the exact Platinum I wanted, and instead I play Gold.
I didn't get the exact support specialist I wanted, and the Volus actually didn't come all that close to what I had in mind(but they're still pretty awesome).
I even wanted the high powered biotic that didn't need to rely on grenade spam , BEs, or weapons but again the Phoenix wasn't exactly what I wanted(plus he's kind of underwhelming, especially the Vanguard) and he comes the closest to being that character.
That's my point. You say you're unhappy because things are close to what you want, but not exact. I'm saying that most people didn't get the exact thing that they wanted. BioWare just can't do that, as there are way too many of us that all want different things. If you're losing faith in developers for them not being able to do it, then I'd be surprised if you had any faith left in the games industry as a whole.
The only thing situational about my suggestions was the Justicar's durability which doesn't let you play incredibly recklessly like the Kroguard does. There is nothing situational about the Asari Vanguard being a 1 woman biotic nuclear strike with her Lift Grenades and not needing combos to do it, or the N7 Demolisher being able to rain Arc Grenades on the enemy spawn. Most kits are going to have some way of playing that doesn't work quite as well, however.
I would argue that many of our female casters do not rely on DoT damage. Yes they have abilities like Warp and Incinerate that do damage over time, but that's not what the power is there for. Submission Net, Flamer, and Reave are the only purely damage over time based abilities built for doing damage. I can't make the same argument for combos though since the vast majority of our casters(male or female) are built around either A. Grenade Spam or B. Combo Spam, other than Flamer or a few biotics using Warp Rounds or the Incendiary Rounds + Warp bug.
The point I was making with consumables is that even the weapons platforms need them unless you want to restrict yourself to very specific weapons or are very skilled if you want to be a beast(and really, the Harrier pumps out amazing damage on even casters). Warp Rounds are unique because they deal increased damage to biotically primed targets, something the Justicar can do that the N7 Destroyer can't. That's an extra 60% damage to everything but shields for the Justicar, which is nearly as much damage as an offensively specced Adrenaline Rush.
I was agreeing with you when you first said that there should be more female characters. I liked the idea of having a Female Quarian Sentinel with very high DR to the point where it was the only suggestion I posted in any "suggest a new character" threads. I still like the idea and think it would be a good character(though they should probably replace Reave with a new ability that's biotic and has DR but isn't the best biotic primer in the game)
but losing faith in a company simply because the character you got wasn't exactly what you wanted? That just seems a tad silly.
Rebel_Raven wrote...
Yes, I know Yahtzee well, and appreciate his style.
Point is, there's wisdom in that picture. Sure it's not litteral, but look at some of the games that get hyped, and hype, then are terrible?
It applies to DLC, too.
Yeah, you're right, we don't get what we want. Still I can't see getting one DLC female soldier as unreasonable though. It's baffling. 've asked for one for months. I was civil, I tried the crazy approach, I tried the emotional/passionate approach. I'unno. Still trying to wrap my head around why there were never any.
Yes, I know Weapon platforms use consumeables, too. I fully expect it in gold and up really. But while I'm catching up to their damage/durability/etc., they're going that much ahead of me thanks to consumeables.
Are you trying to tell me that a destroyer, TSOL, or GI can't use warp rounds, and pummel a biotically primed target and enjoy the best of both worlds? They may not be able to prime, but they sure can take advantage of it, and amplify their damage output, no?
I was rooting for the female quarian sentinel idea, too. A lot of good ideas just aren't going to make it, it seems.
And please don't boil down my loss of faith to that. It's not that simple.
Just over one character? No. Not even remotely just one character, but the lack of female soldiers in DLC certainly planted a big red flag. I expected better.
There's so many reasons that I don't feel the same about Bioware as I used to. MP sprinkled a lot of straws on the camel's back, but no one straw broke the back.
SP did very little to dissuade me from the series amazingly, but it's hard to go back to it like I can in MP.
The same practices that annoy me have pretty much driven away my partner from the game which was a double whammy. She wants a lot of what I want to do. Variety, hitting like a semi-truck instead of a slow poison. Heavy weapons use, durability to be a bit reckless with. Putting up with everything just to get to this point was too much, so she quit for greener pastures. I dunno if she'll wanna come back for this DLC.
It's the alienation that's killing things, honestly.
The JoeMan wrote...
Rebel_Raven wrote...
Yes, I know Yahtzee well, and appreciate his style.
Point is, there's wisdom in that picture. Sure it's not litteral, but look at some of the games that get hyped, and hype, then are terrible?
It applies to DLC, too.
Yeah, you're right, we don't get what we want. Still I can't see getting one DLC female soldier as unreasonable though. It's baffling. 've asked for one for months. I was civil, I tried the crazy approach, I tried the emotional/passionate approach. I'unno. Still trying to wrap my head around why there were never any.
Yes, I know Weapon platforms use consumeables, too. I fully expect it in gold and up really. But while I'm catching up to their damage/durability/etc., they're going that much ahead of me thanks to consumeables.
Are you trying to tell me that a destroyer, TSOL, or GI can't use warp rounds, and pummel a biotically primed target and enjoy the best of both worlds? They may not be able to prime, but they sure can take advantage of it, and amplify their damage output, no?
I was rooting for the female quarian sentinel idea, too. A lot of good ideas just aren't going to make it, it seems.
And please don't boil down my loss of faith to that. It's not that simple.
Just over one character? No. Not even remotely just one character, but the lack of female soldiers in DLC certainly planted a big red flag. I expected better.
There's so many reasons that I don't feel the same about Bioware as I used to. MP sprinkled a lot of straws on the camel's back, but no one straw broke the back.
SP did very little to dissuade me from the series amazingly, but it's hard to go back to it like I can in MP.
The same practices that annoy me have pretty much driven away my partner from the game which was a double whammy. She wants a lot of what I want to do. Variety, hitting like a semi-truck instead of a slow poison. Heavy weapons use, durability to be a bit reckless with. Putting up with everything just to get to this point was too much, so she quit for greener pastures. I dunno if she'll wanna come back for this DLC.
It's the alienation that's killing things, honestly.
Really Raven. At some point you're going to have to admit that it's not them, it's you. Bioware has bent over backwards to be as inclusionary as possible to female gamers throughout the Mass Effect series and especially so in ME3. Yet here you still stand, pointing fingers and calling sexism at every turn. In this case because there is no female destroyer type soldier. There is an ample supply of female characters to choose from and more are getting added on Tuesday. I'm sorry that you haven't been able to find ANY that you like but this is getting really old.
Rebel_Raven wrote...
Yes, I know Yahtzee well, and appreciate his style.
Point is, there's wisdom in that picture. Sure it's not litteral, but look at some of the games that get hyped, and hype, then are terrible?
It applies to DLC, too.
Yeah, you're right, we don't get what we want. Still I can't see getting one DLC female soldier as unreasonable though. It's baffling. 've asked for one for months. I was civil, I tried the crazy approach, I tried the emotional/passionate approach. I'unno. Still trying to wrap my head around why there were never any.
Yes, I know Weapon platforms use consumeables, too. I fully expect it in gold and up really. But while I'm catching up to their damage/durability/etc., they're going that much ahead of me thanks to consumeables.
Are you trying to tell me that a destroyer, TSOL, or GI can't use warp rounds, and pummel a biotically primed target and enjoy the best of both worlds? They may not be able to prime, but they sure can take advantage of it, and amplify their damage output, no?
I was rooting for the female quarian sentinel idea, too. A lot of good ideas just aren't going to make it, it seems.
And please don't boil down my loss of faith to that. It's not that simple.
Just over one character? No. Not even remotely just one character, but the lack of female soldiers in DLC certainly planted a big red flag. I expected better.
There's so many reasons that I don't feel the same about Bioware as I used to. MP sprinkled a lot of straws on the camel's back, but no one straw broke the back.
SP did very little to dissuade me from the series amazingly, but it's hard to go back to it like I can in MP.
The same practices that annoy me have pretty much driven away my partner from the game which was a double whammy. She wants a lot of what I want to do. Variety, hitting like a semi-truck instead of a slow poison. Heavy weapons use, durability to be a bit reckless with. Putting up with everything just to get to this point was too much, so she quit for greener pastures. I dunno if she'll wanna come back for this DLC.
It's the alienation that's killing things, honestly.
Modifié par Cyonan, 22 février 2013 - 09:29 .
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