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Why not connected origins?


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#1
JoaoBeraldo

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Well, it's about time I started posting instead of just lurking about. Now, if such discussion already came up, sorry!

A few friends at work are playing DA:O right now, each at different level of completion (I'm the slow guy who hardly has time to play :(). Now, the good thing about it is that it allowed us to discuss many of the things that happen in the game or what we expected to happen.

One of the things that bothered me and came up in one of these discussions this week was how your choice of an Origin immediatelly invalidates the other 5 storylines. Allow me to explain.

Each of the Origins have Duncan present and ends with him picking you as a recruit for one reason or another. All roads lead to Ostagar, as we know. The fact is that, if I choose to play with the Noble Dwarf, it means Duncan is not there to recruit (and in most cases save) the others. So, if you are a Noble Dwarf, the Dalish Elf never lives, the City Elf is probably put under arrest, etc.

While I understand the need for a strong character like Duncan to tie whichever origin you pick to the storyline, and the impact it must have as Ostagar ends, we question why couldn't it be different.

The point was brought up by one of the guys who is now at the dwarven city (mind you, I didn't get there yet) as the Human Noble. He mentioned how the ongoing plot sounded different from what he played as a Dwarf Noble (most of us played all 6 origins before picking on to play through the game). His idea was this: the player should play all of the origins, one after the other, before choosing which one to go on, in a way that all his decisions made a difference to the story.

While I think that's an interesting idea, I believe it ends up with an issue of identity. The player has to go through 6 different characters before moving on and growing attached to any of them may not be easy to most players. From Ostagar on, it would mean the others 5 recruits went separate ways (maybe even killed on the Joining or during the Battle).

I see it a bit differently. Ok, the player picks an Origin and plays it through. But each of the other origins are NPCs, each with their own subplots. The player COULD play each of the origins, if he so wishes, and whatever choices he made are 'recorded' on the 'main game' (again, if he wishes so). From that point on, each of the 5 origins not chosen are NPCs you may find, recruit to your party and help complete their subplots. (If the player do not play any of the 'npc' origins, they are decided randomly, since the content already exists).

There are, of course, several factors that would have to be addresses so that the current effect was kept.
 - Only Grey Wardens left: Well, its less dramatic if its not just you and Allister, but also 5 other people. The first option is that these 5 others (or some of them) didn't do the Joining for some reason and never became Grey Wardens (Ostagar happened before?)
 - Multiple Duncans: Again, the events of the Battle of Ostagar have great impact to the story because of who Duncan is. Having 6 'Duncans' might work, especially if they were men sent by Duncan to recruit new Wardens (notice at the Noble Dwarf's origin there are 3 other Wardens with Duncan?). It would be a matter of trading Duncan for the chosen origin's Warden, at least up to the moment where the player reaches Ostagar.
 - Too many NPCs: Often we end up with too many NPCs to handle and some are left out (poor Dog...). It might be a matter of not only handling the usual NPCs plus the 5 'origin' ones, but choosing if they should or not become part of the party. Choices may involve picking, say, the Dalish or Zevran. Or maybe the 'Origin NPCs' are temporary NPCs... or just Quest givers?

Anyway, I'm not here to say how things should be done. I'm a Bioware fan and DA:O is currently on top of my favorite games list (after pushing Mass Effect down from the top, which first pushed KOTOR down from the top). But I figured I might share these ideas with the community and find out if others have similar ideas and/or concerns.

#2
IPerrin

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I've had similar thoughts, and it wouldn't take multiple Duncans I don't think. No matter what origin you play, Duncan has time to recruit Daveth from Denerim and Ser Jory from Redcliff. Why couldn't he pick up a city elf NPC with a city elf origin story while he was collecting Daveth? I thought having more companion choices, and possibly additional scenes like the jailbreak and the Denerim gate defence, where you are not controlling your main PC but a full group of followers might have been an improvement.



Great game though don't take this as a complaint

#3
eschilde

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Actually, you can sort of figure out what happened to the other potential recruits throughout the game, and assume that Duncan missed recruiting them because of weird timing.

1) Mage origin: Jowan's friend gets tranquilized, killed or sent to the magi prison
2) City elf: killed in attempt to rescue wife or escape the estate
3) Dalish elf: doesn't survive the mirror taint
4) Dwarven casteless: dead in the other cell where Leske is (edit: this is the only one you actually see the remains of)
5) Dwarven noble: assumed dead, sentenced to deep roads
6) Human noble: dead in Howe's attack on Highever

Basically, since Duncan can only be in one place at a time and if you assume he did travel to all these places, it would be quite easy to miss the other recruits because of the time he spends picking one.

Modifié par eschilde, 10 janvier 2010 - 09:14 .


#4
SarEnyaDor

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I like to think of it like that one ST:TNG episode with all the alternate threads and only Worf keeps jumping from one reality to the next.... When we pick our origin, we start down one thread, if we pick another we go down another thread. It is really fun to see parts of other Origins your play - like when you aren't a dwarf commoner and you liberate Leske from Jarvia's cell and you find the skeleton of what could have been you in the cell next to him...



Think of it like two people in a place crash, one freezes for 5 seconds and the other immediately tears off their seat belt and the the plane is engulfed in flames, the one who hesitate a mere 5 second is toast, while the one who didn't managed to get just far enough away to survive with burns and not die. That is what it is like, without the player giving the other Origin characters that push, they become the one who waited a moment too long and their story is ended.



Plus, you don't have to compete to be the star of the show. ;)





PS -> yes, I was watching the Science of Survival last night :s

#5
Bhatair

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SarEnyaDor wrote...

I like to think of it like that one ST:TNG episode with all the alternate threads and only Worf keeps jumping from one reality to the next....


Good episode, and the way I like to look at it too :)

#6
SusanStoHelit

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Yes. And I like the separate origins. It makes each character 'unique'. And since I already have at least one character of every origin, why would I want them all linked to the others? If you're only going to make one character, this might be attractive, but ...

#7
Xandurpein

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There can for plot reasons only be two Grey Wardens or the choice Morrigan offers at the end would be pointless.

#8
Sarethus

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I'm ideally planning on writing a fanfic where Duncan did pick each and every origin but of those, the Dalish died during the Joining, the City Elf & Dwarf Commoner were at Cailan's side during the Battle and the Dwarf & Human Noble + Elf mage survived.

#9
BardKesnit

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eschilde wrote...

4) Dwarven casteless: dead in the other cell where Leske is (edit: this is the only one you actually see the remains of)


My fiancee is of the opinion that the Dwarven casteless becomes the leader of the gang in Dust town. According to her (I haven't played it), you and your partner talk about taking over once the current leader is dead. Well, you kill the then-leader and take over.

#10
eschilde

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BardKesnit wrote...

eschilde wrote...

4) Dwarven casteless: dead in the other cell where Leske is (edit: this is the only one you actually see the remains of)


My fiancee is of the opinion that the Dwarven casteless becomes the leader of the gang in Dust town. According to her (I haven't played it), you and your partner talk about taking over once the current leader is dead. Well, you kill the then-leader and take over.


Erm.. I'm not sure if I'm spoiling you here.. but Jarvia is an NPC in the DC origin and is always the gang leader you're sent to kill in the Orzammar main quest. Leske is always in a cell if you play any origin other than DC, with a dwarven corpse in an adjacent cell. He'll also say "My friend didn't make it.. all for a stupid bet," which, if you play the DC origin, you'll know what he's talking about. DC obviously leaves and becomes a GW so can't take over the gang in that origin, in any case :b

#11
JoaoBeraldo

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Just reached Demerin (sp?) and wandered around a little. Then I came across the entrance to the Alienage and heard from the guard what happened (as there was no Duncan there as in the city elf's end). And suddenly I see it in a different perspective. Like what SarEnyaDor said, it's a matter of alternate realities in which you, the player (and not the character), also chooses which of the 6 characters will survive. Like in the game itself, where each of your character's choises have consequences, as you the player picks one of the origins, the consequences are not having Duncan to help the other 5 characters. Nifty idea ;)