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[Uccio]

You people are forgetting that Old Gods may be somewhere else than in Thedas, those dragons could be just avatars. Now sleeping since their puppet masters are gone.

[dragonflight288]

Chantry's teachings aren't entirely the red-herring [like communism! ⌐.⌐ yeah, I may be showing my age there]

I LOVE that movie!

out 9 hours ago
^ Somehow the whole Dark Ritual was supposed to not only ensure the birth of the OGB, but also ensure that the "soul retrieved" was that of the Old God and NOT the tainted arch-demon the Old God became.

Morrigan talks about how she wishes to preserve the essence of an Old God in its uncorrupted form. She's very vague about her intentions, but she says some things are worth preserving.

[Damate]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Chantry's teachings aren't entirely the red-herring [like communism! ⌐.⌐ yeah, I may be showing my age there]

I LOVE that movie!

 Because it's one of the bestest movies EVAR. 

dragonflight288 wrote...
Morrigan talks about how she wishes to preserve the essence of an Old God in its uncorrupted form. She's very vague about her intentions, but she says some things are worth preserving.

Yeah, precisely, so what she was aiming for was something, ah, 'purer' than the tainted corruption of the Archdemon... which suggests that Morrigan/Flemeth at least believe the Archdemons are, indeed, the Old Gods of befor... or, at least, they are willing to speak in terms of that belief, wether or not it's true.

That's the thing with Morrigan and Flemeth: It isn't so much that they run about lying and conniving, it's just that their words are so utterly devoid of revelations of their true motives most of the time. I think David Gaider himself recently said... somewhere... that one of the things he loved most about Morrigan as a character was that NPCs and many players were so accustomed to viewing anything she said or did with suspicion that she could tell bold-faced truths left and right and people would still question it. And Flemeth speaks in damned riddles.  I love and hate this about the characters. 

And who knows? With revelations from the recent comic series regarding Yavana and Flemeth's desire to awaken/breed/preserve dragons, which they claim are somehow tied to the very lifeforce of Thedas... maybe the Dark Rituals attempt to 'cleanse', preserve and reincarnate the soul of an Old God is somehow also crucial to the mystical/magical/spiritual/whatever well-being of the world? 

[TEWR]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

1) If the OGB has the taint as part of the process by which the Old God's soul is attracted, and the presence of the Darkspawn taint causes the Old God to be transformed into an Archdemon, then why does the taint in the OGB not cause the soul of the Old God to be insane and turn into an Archdemon immediately?

A wizard did it. Quite literally, in both senses of the phrase.

2) We know there are souls in the DA universe, as through the explanation of both the Dark Ritual as well as the Arcane Warrior soul stone. This proves that many beings have a soul that exists beyond the death of the body. Both examples also tell us that a soul can be destroyed. Does the Chant address this in any way that we have seen? Is there any afterlife for the good, other than "to be at be Maker's side?" And is there any punishment to being evil for Andrastians in the next life?

There's a version of Hell in Thedas called the "Void" where the wicked walk, and I think we can assume that Claudio Valisti or whoever the hell he was from The Silent Grove was in the Void before Yavana summoned his soul back to Thedas for some interrogation.

3) Lastly, was the Dark Ritual necessary? There exists ways to capture souls (again, reference back to the Arcane Warrior) that doesn't involve having them reborn. Could not a piece of the taint as well as the same homing beacon Morrigan put in the child exist instead in a soul stone of sorts? Preserving the soul in a contained method, but not having it be reborn? Or some other solution that could easily exist in the lore we have seen? If so, what could be the purpose of sealing the soul inside a mortal child?

What use would a trapped soul in a stone be to Morrigan? The child would be alive and able to help the world. Trapped in a stone serves no one, least of all Morrigan.

[Fast Jimmy]

The soul in the stone could communicate all the knowledge of the forgotten art of the Arcane Warriors. What knowledge could, instead, a soul of an immortal god confer? Lots, I would wager.

So what about being reborn in a child that would retain no memories (after all Morrigan said the child would be taught to respect where it came from, implying the child wouldn't know) benefit? I don't think anyone would know that except maybe Gaider, but the point bears being made - Morrigan possibly sacrificed a once in a universe opportunity to glean untold information to instead have a knowledgeless child of unknown power or ability. If this is true, then the purpose of the OGB would need to be of serious value.


Or not. I'm leaning towards not, practically speaking. Just because of Save Imports and the fact that not everyone participated in the Dark Ritual, meaning the significance of the OGB is going to be more minor than major.

Still, it seems from a lore perspective that Morrigan could have better alternatives than the OGB route to gain power or knowledge from the soul of an old god, so the fact that she went the route of the child is interesting.

[Damate]

Well, like Reznore57 pointed out, heh, the Dark Ritual as it happened in game does have - literally - more good old fashioned sex appeal going for it than, you know: "Take zee this pendant! And the soul of the old god shall pass forth into it!"

Not to mention, a child you raise yourself, teach, watch, guide (manipulate?) --> these are things you can control more than the soul of a cognizant, aware, possibly pissed-the-****-off Old God stuck in a stone. Don't get me wrong: I can see the appeal of the idea of taking the soul in a manner which may allow easier and more immediate/thorough access to knowledge and secrets, but I can also see the appeal of a slower 'gamble', banking on what a child with such a reborn soul may eventually mean.

And yes, I agree: Given save imports and the like, unquestionably the OGB isn't going to be an earth shattering reveal at any point -- I'd be very surprised if it was. I think it can be tied into future plots in a satisfactory manner, however, if participating in the Dark Ritual in Origins (or choosing not to) somehow distinctly changed the outcome/difficulty/tone of a future plot highlight.

[Dayze]

So the dwarves/profane of old "feasted" on the "Gods", the profane feast on red lyrium.

Dragons are the "life blood" of the world. When you use enough lyrium, you end up looking like Corypheus and have dragon-esque scales growing all over your body.

Dwarves imprisonned Dragons underground in the stone.

One of the chants of light mention that righteousness is her "fire", makes me think of dragons there.

The Almari fled from a "shadow goddess"; anyone thinking of Broodmothers and Darkspawn, maybe something like the awakened from DA:Awakening? Of course; shadow could mean mimicry, so it could have been another female entity like Flemeth who was a shape changer/abomination.

Also does it seem like the spirits like females more? Andraste, Flemeth, Wynne, the baroness from Awakenings.....

As for how Gods are in DA; you can kill dragons worshipped by the cult, kill ArchDemons worshipped by the darkspawn, flemeth mentions the elves bow too easily.

Demons come out of that statue to Dumat, there's Merris statue that is similiar in appearance and also has demons. Wynne's spirit of faith; didn't she mention it felt like it came from far away or some such thing?

So off-hand; there no real "Gods" in DA, powerful entities, spirits but nothing like the Chantry, Elves, or the Cultists believe in.

"The Maker" is probably just a spirit of Faith; The Black/Gold City could very well be created via the imagination of its people who believed in it.

Power in DA is connected to Dragons.

That being said; we know little to nothing of the elven gods or if they even exist beyond barring some similiarites in myths to other religions.

Even that could just be DA's way of saying that people have needs and attribute them to other things.....its not that they myths are the same or the gods/spirits are the same, its that people are the same so the outline of their legends will be similiar because they address similiar needs.

[Dayze]

Alternative/Extension Theory:

There isn't a "Maker" per say; there are multiple entities that have had their actions construed as the "Maker's".

The Dread Wolf makes the golden city and the spirits/demons to guard the beings he imprisoned it.
Andraste is an abomination/possessed by a Spirit of Faith etc....and so on.
Dragons are like the giant spiders but just for Lizards instead.
There are no afterlives or ghosts; all Ghosts whether summoned or otherwise are just Spirits/Demons mimicing humans for one reason or another.

Its also possible there is a "Maker" but it is just that, a Spirit of Creation or Inventiveness and not the Alpha Being of Existence.

That being said; obviously the games are giving hints towards someone/thing coming back into the world and possibly making everyone or the dwarves at least have magical abilities again.

Or making everything has it once was; might mean an entity like the Dread Wolf freeing the Elven Gods.