307 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

True, but if the lore tells us that the Old Gods were the ones who taught the magisters blood magic and that the they become corrupted in the presence of Darkspawn, would that not indicate that it is a possibility that the Archdemons possss blod magic in such a form that it can control all the Darkspawn through the connection of the taint?

Avernus seems to mean the taint and blood magic are very different things. Or do you mean that the taint is like the internet, while blood magic is the computer virus installed in a computer/darkspawn?

You never want to upload taint to the internet. Trust me.

[TEWR]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

True, but if the lore tells us that the Old Gods were the ones who taught the magisters blood magic and that the they become corrupted in the presence of Darkspawn, would that not indicate that it is a possibility that the Archdemons possss blod magic in such a form that it can control all the Darkspawn through the connection of the taint?

Avernus seems to mean the taint and blood magic are very different things. Or do you mean that the taint is like the internet, while blood magic is the computer virus installed in a computer/darkspawn?

You never want to upload taint to the internet. Trust me.

But I have mastered my Taint!

[TEWR]

Think we're supposed to take the enslavement power as canon? Isn't it just a gameplay thing?

Well, it is called a "mystic blade".

[The Hierophant]

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

[lil yonce]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Well now, do we have proof it was the Maker behind all the various unpleasant things he's being credited/blamed for that weakened the Imperium? Unless I've missed something massively important, anything we've seen could have happened with or without the Maker's intervention. And the weather that Andraste's disciple states helped the rebellion could have been a series of coincidental, mundane disasters. In fact, for that matter, is he provably extant?

(As for killing him, if the Maker is this world's equivalent of the Abrahamic God, killing him may or may not be doable.)

Drawing from an IRL example, I don't think it was a coincidence. I think it was deliberate on some level. The DA world seems to mirror it. I don't think the writers would dismiss it as a coincidence.

Riverdaleswhiteflash... It's also fully possible that everything that happened to the Imperium was simply a result of their breaching the Golden City, and the resulting bad stuff was later attributed to the Maker.

This sort of implies that the Golden City is not actually the Maker's domain and that He has no control over it. I don't think He's in control of the world, but I do think He is in control of the Golden City.

Much the way any natrual disaster is often attributed to the wrath of God.

But this is usually because they believe the Abrahamic God is in control of the world when that isn't so.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 23 février 2013 - 02:52 .

[Fast Jimmy]

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

I found it very interesting that they called it an idol right from the get go. It looks like a statue to me. Why would  Hawke or Varric automatically attribute religious significance to it? That struck me as... odd.

[TEWR]

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

Indeed. As I said a page or so ago, there's much to suggest they are the source of the Darkspawn. Even so, the nature of the Thaig's society itself is interesting. The Primeval Thaig suggests the Dwarves were at one point Mages and that they worshipped gods.

Gods! The madness of it all! 

[TEWR]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

I found it very interesting that they called it an idol right from the get go. It looks like a statue to me. Why would  Hawke or Varric automatically attribute religious significance to it? That struck me as... odd.

Might not have been so out of place had the place where it was found looked more.... temple-y. 

[The Hierophant]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

I found it very interesting that they called it an idol right from the get go. It looks like a statue to me. Why would  Hawke or Varric automatically attribute religious significance to it? That struck me as... odd.

Plus there's no paintings or carvings in the Thaig that indicated any existance of The Old Gods, or Darkspawn existing during their time period.

[Fast Jimmy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

I found it very interesting that they called it an idol right from the get go. It looks like a statue to me. Why would  Hawke or Varric automatically attribute religious significance to it? That struck me as... odd.

Might not have been so out of place had the place where it was found looked more.... temple-y. 

Agreed. It was on a pedastal, I suppose. But so were countless jugs and statues. 

Do we have any previous examples of art being made with lyrium? I can see a new trend developing in the circles of Orlais.

[TheJediSaint]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

I found it very interesting that they called it an idol right from the get go. It looks like a statue to me. Why would  Hawke or Varric automatically attribute religious significance to it? That struck me as... odd.

They didn't automatically attribute religious significance.    I think they were just using the term idol in the general sense.  Since a statue made out of Lyrium is going to be very valuable.

[The Hierophant]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

So, what about those prehistoric Dwarves and that lyrium idol?

Indeed. As I said a page or so ago, there's much to suggest they are the source of the Darkspawn. Even so, the nature of the Thaig's society itself is interesting. The Primeval Thaig suggests the Dwarves were at one point Mages and that they worshipped gods.

Gods! The madness of it all! 

I wished that the Thaig had some form hieroglyphs or paintings as to add to the mystery as it was bare.

@The bolded - They might have traveled to the GC using red lyrium but the taint should of life wiped the continent as i doubt Thedas' civilizations were as populated as they were during the 1st Blight, in their bronze ages, or learned Blood Magic to create some form of archaic Wardens.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 23 février 2013 - 01:33 .

[Kidd]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Yes, but the Architect's presence wasn't what corrupted Urthemiel. It was his Joining ritual. He gave it to Urthemiel, hoping this would free all Darkspawn everywhere. All it did was just create a Blight, unfortunate as that was.

True. Makes one wonder how the corruption of an Old God happens in the first place. Do darkspawn wake the sleeping dragons and go "hey, bite my arm"?

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You never want to upload taint to the internet. Trust me.

I know, right? Once some things hit the internet, you just can't take them down again.

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I found it very interesting that they called it an idol right from the get go. It looks like a statue to me. Why would  Hawke or Varric automatically attribute religious significance to it? That struck me as... odd.

The words idol and statue are not synonymes? *not a native speaker*

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Indeed. As I said a page or so ago, there's much to suggest they are the source of the Darkspawn.

Oh yeah, you mentioned as much. What do you base that on? Very curious =)

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 23 février 2013 - 01:24 .

[lil yonce]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Should the slavery of an entire continent happen under the Qun? Where you are born into your role and you have no freedom? No justice for the hundreds of thousands who will have their will chained to Koslun? No change at all because some Qunari in Kirkwall will die?

I don't think a majority of Kirkwallers were going to convert to the Qun or endorse it in any form. A disillusioned son of a powerless Viscount and a few elves that wanted protection from the guard were among the chief converts. When the Arishock attempted to enslave the city, the guard and templars fought. Petrice was not needed.

Yet Sister Patriece is evil, and Andraste is the beacon of pure goodness?

Yes. Petrice and her coniving and murdering was unncessary and contrary to the teachings of the Chant. She was fighting shadows. She was a true zealot. A religious nut. Andraste was key in a revolution against an absolute that went south without her.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 23 février 2013 - 02:17 .

[imbs]

the constant use of "Bioware, lets talk about x" in thread titles sure is an obnoxious practise aint it

[Kidd]

imbs wrote...

the constant use of "Bioware, lets talk about x" in thread titles sure is an obnoxious practise aint it

It's a thread series of his.

[TEWR]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Agreed. It was on a pedastal, I suppose. But so were countless jugs and statues. 

Do we have any previous examples of art being made with lyrium? I can see a new trend developing in the circles of Orlais.

I think the Dwarves use lyrium like that, but don't take my word for it.

[TEWR]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Oh yeah, you mentioned as much. What do you base that on? Very curious =)

Oh, a lot of things. I'll try and recall everything and write it out. It's mostly circumstantial, but it does suggest the PT is linked to the Darkspawn.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 février 2013 - 01:43 .

[Kidd]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Oh yeah, you mentioned as much. What do you base that on? Very curious =)

Oh, a lot of things. I'll try and recall everything and write it out. It's mostly circumstantial, but it does suggest the PT is linked to the Darkspawn.

Looking forward to a long list of possibilities that may or may not be mostly overanalysed pieces of far-reaching! ^^ If I've done anything in this thread, it's raise a thousand questions where there really isn't room for many.

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 23 février 2013 - 01:45 .

[Plaintiff]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In any case, death is never justice.

Funny you should say that considering your constant talk of killing those who disagree with you.

Death may be a regrettable necessity. A being of the Maker's power and malice can probably not be safely kept alive.

Well now, do we have proof it was the Maker behind all the various unpleasant things he's being credited/blamed for that weakened the Imperium? Unless I've missed something massively important, anything we've seen could have happened with or without the Maker's intervention. And the weather that Andraste's disciple states helped the rebellion could have been a series of coincidental, mundane disasters. In fact, for that matter, is he provably extant?

(As for killing him, if the Maker is this world's equivalent of the Abrahamic God, killing him may or may not be doable.)

Again, the Maker Xilizhra is talking about is not the "real" Maker, who may or may not exist, but the character of the Maker as he is presented in the Chant of Light. They are two separate concepts.

Xilizhra is saying that, if the Maker truly exists as he is represented in the chant, then he is a cruel and petty tyrant that needs to be destroyed for the sake of everyone else's safety. Not the loving and forgiving god the Chantry would have us believe he is.

[lil yonce]

Plaintiff wrote...

Again, the Maker Xilizhra is talking about is not the "real" Maker, who may or may not exist, but the character of the Maker as he is presented in the Chant of Light. They are two separate concepts.

Xilizhra is saying that, if the Maker truly exists as he is represented in the chant, then he is a cruel and petty tyrant that needs to be destroyed for the sake of everyone else's safety. Not the loving and forgiving god the Chantry would have us believe he is.

Where does the Chant say the Maker is evil?

[Reznore57]

Well , if the maker did create Darkspawn...even if he had reasons to do so....
I mean it plagues the land , dwarves lost almost everything because of it , Blight ...tons of dead people...

Let's not talk about darkspawn , maybe they are happy litlle creatures inside but well...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Again, the Maker Xilizhra is talking about is not the "real" Maker, who may or may not exist, but the character of the Maker as he is presented in the Chant of Light. They are two separate concepts.

Xilizhra is saying that, if the Maker truly exists as he is represented in the chant, then he is a cruel and petty tyrant that needs to be destroyed for the sake of everyone else's safety. Not the loving and forgiving god the Chantry would have us believe he is.

Where does the Chant say the Maker is evil?

He's portrayed as passive aggressive as hell, capable of playing favorites for a mortal (that he created) in ways that even Zeus might have called out of line, and it states that he's the one who created the first darkspawn out of defiant creations. So, it doesn't call him evil so much as it shows him acting the part.

[lil yonce]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

He's portrayed as passive aggressive as hell, capable of playing favorites for a mortal (that he created) in ways that even Zeus might have called out of line, and it states that he's the one who created the first darkspawn out of defiant creations. So, it doesn't call him evil so much as it shows him acting the part.

Point to a verse.

[MisterJB]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
it states that he's the one who created the first darkspawn out of defiant creations.

That's open to interpretation. The Chant is rather non specific over what happened.

"But when they took a single step

Toward the empty throne

A great voice cried out

Shaking the very foundations

Of Heaven and earth:



And So is the Golden City blackened

With each step you take in my Hall.

Marvel at perfection, for it is fleeting.

You have brought Sin to Heaven

And doom upon all the world"

If anything, the Maker seems less "I shall smite thee, wicked mortal!" and more "I turn around for one millenia and what do these children do? Bring Sin to Heaven. Hope you're proud of yourselves."

It could just be that shoul anyone with sin in their hearts step foot in the Golden City, the corruption occurs imediatelly and involuntarely much like what happens if you add gas and fire.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 février 2013 - 02:33 .