289 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

PainCakesx wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Another idea for a conventional victory would be that it, too, would come at a cost. Not of genocide, but such a victory would clearly result in more deaths due to conventional warfare. The choice could be something like this:

1) Using the crucible will end the war immediately following what we already have.
2) Conventional victory will save the Citadel, Mass Relays, synthetics, etc., but will likely result in many more casualties from the actual battle itself.

That sounds like low ems destroy.

How in the hell does that sound like Low-EMS Destroy?

Low-EMS Destroy wipes most life in the galaxy, destroys all the relays and destroys the Citadel.

Conventional victory results in more military casualties, but it preserves the relays and the Citadel. Similar to the High-EMS Destroy, the galaxy can then rebuild with most of its infrasture still intact.

the narration speaks of the massive casualties, the great pains that will come from needing to rebuild, the sacrifice it took the kill the reapers.

The pirce for destroying the reapers is great, all races feel it from all over the galaxy.

Seems like the outcome of a military victory without any aid whatsoever from the crucible. Of course that's better than what conventional victory logically would create, which is a double negative victory where both sides lose the war, simialar to the result of a nuclear war or truley massive planet-wide war.

The entire galaxy, made to be like tuchanca.

I wasn't saying that there are massive casualties, just that there are more. With the relays in tact, the Citadel intact, and a lot of the military infrasture in tact, it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as the Low-EMS ending.

...Okay. How?

If I've obtained 7,000+ war assets and have united virtually every region of the galaxy against the reaper threat, I would expect the casualties to be less than if I brought in an army 1/4 that size. 

Certainly less than a galaxy size red light of death that wipes out everything it comes into contact with.

And with the relays and Citadel in tact, intragalactic commerse still continues, faciliating the rebuilding process significantly.

But that doesn't make logical sense to me. You united an army, great. You forget that the war is a simultanious front on all corners of the galaxy. The reapers aren't all assemlbed on earth, if anything that's just a sizeable portion that I wouldn't even call half.

You have the mass of your force assembled on one place, engageing a single portion of the enemy. Meanwhile, the reapers are engaged in full scale warfare against all the planets who now have less defenses.

Under your assumption, it makes it sound like the reapers somehow do not go after civilians or civilian institutions or structures. And I assume that this battle will take much more than, say, a week to actually win. Both sides are taking massive losses from eachother, with troops, ships, and infastructure.

I just don't see how the galaxy would make it out pretty alright when most of the galaxy will be the sight of the war effort.

[spirosz]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It's been a year. Most have already moved on, whether they liked the ending or not.

[spirosz]

People still trying to argue conventional victory?

Aha, ha, ha.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Ryoten wrote...

ofarrell wrote...

The ending with the EC is fine by me. I don't need any in game content to know what happens afterwards, that's what imagination is for.

Here,  i'll sell you my game for $60.  Here's the beginning of the game.....


Two bad assess walk into a bar.


Use your imagination to come up with the remaining 39.90 hours left of the game. 

Your example is BS becasue you got 39.99 hours of the game given to you, and the only thing missing is the "shepard and garrus walk into a bar" line. Reverseing the scenario does nothing for your point.

And your slippery slope proposal doesn't really hold that much water IMO.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 23 février 2013 - 12:14 .

[PainCakesx]

spirosz wrote...

People still trying to argue conventional victory?

Aha, ha, ha.

Great contribution to the discussion.

[Berty213]

Ryoten wrote...

ofarrell wrote...

The ending with the EC is fine by me. I don't need any in game content to know what happens afterwards, that's what imagination is for.

Here,  i'll sell you my game for $60.  Here's the beginning of the game.....


Two bad assess walk into a bar.


Use your imagination to come up with the remaining 39.90 hours left of the game. 


You see paying for someone to say "use your imagination", is not what we pay money for.  That just sets a standard that "this is acceptable".  And what you will get down the road, is less and less product for more and more money.  If you want to use your imagination, dream up a story from beginning to end.  Otherwise, you're hurting everyone else who want to pay money to be entertained.

Bit harsh, all he said was that he was hapy with the EC.

[AlanC9]

Rhayak wrote...
So i have to help you think. Ok.

All it would take to fit in the conventional victory would be some slight changes to dialogue.

Simplest example: providing there's enough EMS, Hackett might at some point just tell players that yes, the crucible is an option, but they have amassed so many ships that there is actually hope for conventional victory.

Reapers are amassed around Earth anyway, so with the bulk of their forces crushed there, stragglers around the galaxy soon follow. The end. The crucible can always be dismantled, and all that tech reused.
Not hard, you see

Except, of course,  that Reaper strategy makes no sense whatsoever now. If there was the slightest chance of a conventional victory they could just write off this cycle and start glassing the major industrial worlds rather than get bogged down in ground warfare.  Cant catch them, can't stop them. But you're OK with ignoring that, naturally.

[spirosz]

PainCakesx wrote...

spirosz wrote...

People still trying to argue conventional victory?

Aha, ha, ha.

Great contribution to the discussion.

Truth hurts. 

[PainCakesx]

AlanC9 wrote...

Rhayak wrote...
So i have to help you think. Ok.

All it would take to fit in the conventional victory would be some slight changes to dialogue.

Simplest example: providing there's enough EMS, Hackett might at some point just tell players that yes, the crucible is an option, but they have amassed so many ships that there is actually hope for conventional victory.

Reapers are amassed around Earth anyway, so with the bulk of their forces crushed there, stragglers around the galaxy soon follow. The end. The crucible can always be dismantled, and all that tech reused.
Not hard, you see

Except, of course,  that Reaper strategy makes no sense whatsoever now. If there was the slightest chance of a conventional victory they could just write off this cycle and start glassing the major industrial worlds rather than get bogged down in ground warfare.  Cant catch them, can't stop them. But you're OK with ignoring that, naturally.

That would contradict their programming if their true purpose is to "preserve" organic life.

[PainCakesx]

spirosz wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

spirosz wrote...

People still trying to argue conventional victory?

Aha, ha, ha.

Great contribution to the discussion.

Truth hurts. 

You must think you're pretty clever. 

[N7Keller]

Conventional Victory is not possible... The galaxy was not ready for the reapers. Had they listened to Shepard, it could be possible. The forces surrounding earth could barely keep even ground. Lets not forget about all the reapers that are still across the galaxy. Even if the reapers in Sol space were all wiped out, there is no way they could hold out to all the other reapers.

This is said right from the start. If they add conventional victory they would have to re-write most of the game.

[Nerevar-as]

norcalgamer wrote...

Conventional Victory is not possible... The galaxy was not ready for the reapers. Had they listened to Shepard, it could be possible. The forces surrounding earth could barely keep even ground. Lets not forget about all the reapers that are still across the galaxy. Even if the reapers in Sol space were all wiped out, there is no way they could hold out to all the other reapers.

This is said right from the start. If they add conventional victory they would have to re-write most of the game.

I agree with this.

It´s just SB dictating the terms in the end, and presenting such a monster as a kind of superior being we have to listen to AND obey is a slap in the face. And triggering refuse for shooting it a middle finger.

[ShepGrimr]

Ultimattely i feel this last dlc is the latest and last middle finger to fans. This game should have been huge and could of been huge if they had just stuck with the script that was leaked.  They should have stuck with me1 and 2s lore not throw it out the window. Whom ever it was Ea or casey hudson the fact remains it was the worst possible call. Off the heels of me2, me3 was on the 1 yd line they pass to casey hudson, Ea, etc and they fumble the ball and end up going for a field goal. a cruddy field goal.

I have seen multiple post on these forums and other sites saying this game should have been about dark matter or energy to define what the reapers ultimate purpose was. At the very least we should of had most of the missions that me3 has cpet for the cerberous ones. I feel cerberous was blown out of praportion. Half way through the game we kill harbringer before he dies he reveals what th reapers have been doing all this time and their purpose and shepard goes off to fight dark matter energy w/e all detailed in that leaked script which for some unknown reason bioware ditches and serves up a huge pile of **** to the players.

No a new ending isnt enough to fill the plothole or to fix all the lore they abandoned.  The prrotheans lost to the reapers because they were isolated since the relays were shut down from the citadel. not because of "attritition". As the poll suggested an entire rewrite or said leaked script would need to be done to ultimately absolve what bioware/ea has done here.  A travesty if nothing else.  It wasn't fan negative reaction as to why the founders of bioware left. I am sure its because they got tired of EA ruining everything about their company. Now its only a matter of time before they end up like westwood. Forgotten and utterly closed down, dispanded etc.

I hope and pray that visceral games makers of dead space are spared such a fate that befell bioware and mass eftect 3 and not just another casualty of publisher greed and misunderstanding of what is right. 

In the end ALL future ME and Dragon Age games will be held with the utmost scrutiny and criticism for what has been done to previous games.

Oh and speaking of endings, casey hudson if you do end up reading this look to your fellow devs at visceral they at  least know how to right a proper ending.

Modifié par ShepGrimr, 23 février 2013 - 01:06 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Nerevar-as wrote...

norcalgamer wrote...

Conventional Victory is not possible... The galaxy was not ready for the reapers. Had they listened to Shepard, it could be possible. The forces surrounding earth could barely keep even ground. Lets not forget about all the reapers that are still across the galaxy. Even if the reapers in Sol space were all wiped out, there is no way they could hold out to all the other reapers.

This is said right from the start. If they add conventional victory they would have to re-write most of the game.

I agree with this.

It´s just SB dictating the terms in the end, and presenting such a monster as a kind of superior being we have to listen to AND obey is a slap in the face. And triggering refuse for shooting it a middle finger.

If they made it a bit clearer that we aren't obeying the catalyst when picking the ending choices, I think maybe 5-7% of fans would not have a problem with the endings.

[Ninja Stan]

This is a reminder that we can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling and insults.

Also, please edit your quote pyramids so you're quoting only what you're directly responding to. Thank you.

End of line.