289 réponses à ce sujet

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

iakus wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

Hey, it doesn't matter what we think. Merizan says that her spreadsheets say that we are in the minority if we dislike the ending, and Merizan is always right.

Also, I am a French model

How fitting.

[clarkusdarkus]

Why make millions in the casino when you wont be able to spend it afterwards....we already have the goodbye scenes so why bother with your squadmates who were too busy beforehand, now all of a sudden they all can make the casino gambling and conspiracy mission......How anyone can enjoy chilling with your squadmates and blank out what happens after truly does baffle me...

Just bought an apartment for me and ash.....just gonna defeat the reapers ash and i'll be back, oh........

[Cainhurst Crow]

TransientNomad wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Legbiter wrote...

You mean the forums will be short a hundred mopey emos?

That sounds too good to be true, there has to be a downside.

lolol:lol:

+1

Ah yes.  People who don't share your opinion and voice their displeasure about something are "emos."  You see, I thought when people didn't like something, they were allowed to say something about it and be free of ridicule especially if their concerns (whatever they may be) goes unaddressed in a way they find satisfactory.  Stay classy BSN.

Oh it's all about degree and length of time to be perfectly honest.

Like how a griever and a person suffering from depression is determined by how long they spend in their state of sadness.

You can say you don't like something, the only problem is that it's all you people ever seem to do. Every post, every thread, every subject, must all route back to the ending and how much it sucks.

If you had to spend time with a large mass of people who liked this game, and every subject no matter how unrelated to mass effect 3 it was, all ended up being how awesome the ending, the catalyst, and everything else in this game was, would you not feel joy at seeing those annoying twits leave? So that a conversation could actually commence and not have the ending brought up?

And nice way to play the victim card there buddy, and over a video game ending no less. All a matter of degree and scale that determines who is expressing sadness, and who is being whineily depressant about the tiniest of crap.

[alsonamedbort]

iakus wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

iakus wrote...


When every single choice you make inevitably leads to the commission of a terrible crime followed by the  (likely) death of the protagonist, it kinda makes the outcome of the decisions that came before feel hollow and pointless.  A slideshow does not make it better.

If that's the way you want to see it, fine.  If you want to call the EC a "slideshow" because it helps you make a point, even though it was absolutely more than that, then whatever.  Choices still mattered.  Which ones did matter and to what degree has been a topic of endless debate, but saying they didn't matter is just not true.

That is the way I see it, because that's what it is.

Oh, sure Shepard gets to ask a few questions as well.  Questions which don't alter the results in the slightest.  Shepard can refuse too, and give a rousing speech before the Catalyst/Bioware goes "Screw you!  Rocks fall, everyone dies!"  Yay, I guess.  Ten extra minutes that only reinforces "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it"

The choices don't matter because there isn't a single outcome that's worth pursuing.  The journey is pontless without a destination worth reaching.

That is not the way I see it, because that is not what it is.

[Cainhurst Crow]

iakus wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

iakus wrote...


When every single choice you make inevitably leads to the commission of a terrible crime followed by the  (likely) death of the protagonist, it kinda makes the outcome of the decisions that came before feel hollow and pointless.  A slideshow does not make it better.

If that's the way you want to see it, fine.  If you want to call the EC a "slideshow" because it helps you make a point, even though it was absolutely more than that, then whatever.  Choices still mattered.  Which ones did matter and to what degree has been a topic of endless debate, but saying they didn't matter is just not true.

That is the way I see it, because that's what it is.

And that right there is why you continuously fail to persuade people who disagree with you.

Making your statement in a realm of unquestionable authority, while denouncing all other interpretations or views as wrong, bad, misguided, and false.

[alsonamedbort]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And that right there is why you continuously fail to persuade people who disagree with you.

Making your statement in a realm of unquestionable authority, while denouncing all other interpretations or views as wrong, bad, misguided, and false.

He said it better than I did.  I'm really getting tired of these "this is how it happened without question" responses with no explanation then just of regurgitation of what has already been said.  Clearly this issue has been discussed to death and there are (gasp) other alternatives to your line of thinking.

[AlanC9]

DetcelferVisionary wrote...
Alan,  it has been spelled out for you many times, why the ending was sub-par.  There is a laundry list of reasons.  All of them very diverse and varied and many of those reasons would have been extremely difficult for Bioware to satisfy everyone.  However, DONT give me that garbage it was even remotely on par with ME2.  Dont tell me that Bioware can walk away from it saying "we did everything to make it the best we could".   Your ignorance of both the professional and the casual observation is mind blowing.

I made no argument at all about the quality of the endings. I simply pointed out that your statement:

I was told my choices MATTERED.  THEY DIDNT!

... doesn't make any sense. 

Of course, what you meant by that may not have been what you actually said. What you say "MATTERED," what do you mean?

Edit: you could mean something like what iakus is saying... that you're only talking about your personal satisfaction here, and since you don't like any of the endings the differences between them don't matter. That would work , but I'm not aware of Bio promising us that we'd get endings we'd like . The closest thing to that was a promise that there wouldn't be an optimal ending that we'd all like best, and that's a promise they kept.

Merizan corrected me and I'm actually perfectly fine with that.  I'm glad that there is no confusion - because that would just get peoples hopes up.  I was only speculating in that thread.

That wasn't you complaining about how Bio people are going around angering people by locking threads? A few hours after your own thread got locked? Or were you talking about other people being upset about other threads?

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 février 2013 - 09:07 .

[Iakus]

alsonamedbort wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And that right there is why you continuously fail to persuade people who disagree with you.

Making your statement in a realm of unquestionable authority, while denouncing all other interpretations or views as wrong, bad, misguided, and false.

He said it better than I did.  I'm really getting tired of these "this is how it happened without question" responses with no explanation then just of regurgitation of what has already been said.  Clearly this issue has been discussed to death and there are (gasp) other alternatives to your line of thinking.

And I'm getting tired of being told "No you're wrong" despite pointing out in detail over and over why I think this way.  Super-secret data apparantly says I'm wrong.  I'm told over and over I'm simply "confused" or"butthurt" (how I hate that term)  Hundreds of choices all lead to "Shepard dies" (or maaaaybe lives) all the choices lead to horrific violations of the galaxy.

 Yeah, yeah you've heard it all before.  But you know what, there is no question I find these endings repugnant.  And there is no alternative to that available.  I find it even worse that Bioware apparantly doesn't understand why people think that way and simply dismiss those who think so as unimportant anamolies, despite claims to be listening.    
  

Modifié par iakus, 22 février 2013 - 08:48 .

[alsonamedbort]

iakus wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And that right there is why you continuously fail to persuade people who disagree with you.

Making your statement in a realm of unquestionable authority, while denouncing all other interpretations or views as wrong, bad, misguided, and false.

He said it better than I did.  I'm really getting tired of these "this is how it happened without question" responses with no explanation then just of regurgitation of what has already been said.  Clearly this issue has been discussed to death and there are (gasp) other alternatives to your line of thinking.

Did you even read the posts which I explained why I felt that way?

Of course I did, but why does that make them the final authority on anything?

EDIT:  And to address your other point, your feelings are not invalid.  Your presentation of them as the ultimate truth is the problem.

Modifié par alsonamedbort, 22 février 2013 - 08:45 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

iakus wrote...

alsonamedbort wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And that right there is why you continuously fail to persuade people who disagree with you.

Making your statement in a realm of unquestionable authority, while denouncing all other interpretations or views as wrong, bad, misguided, and false.

He said it better than I did.  I'm really getting tired of these "this is how it happened without question" responses with no explanation then just of regurgitation of what has already been said.  Clearly this issue has been discussed to death and there are (gasp) other alternatives to your line of thinking.

Did you even read the posts which I explained why I felt that way?

Your very opening statement makes it clear that the rest of your post is meant to be taken as gospel. In persuasive arguments, the opening statement sets the tone for the work, and your tone is a very sour and yellow note.

As for your argument, I find it full of folly and pretentious arrogance. You find the result not worth presuing, and so  everyone who is sane, rational, intellegant, worth listening to, must also feel the same way. Your entire argument is based on "the results of the ending are not satisfying" and while that might be true for you, it is not for everyone. And yet, in your very same post, you insinuate that it is indeed true, based on little more than a claim of divine purity of your opinion, manifested only from your own claim of somehow speaking for all, and dismissing all claims of dissention from the proposed interpretation as not even being possibly valid.

[Iakus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Your very opening statement makes it clear that the rest of your post is meant to be taken as gospel. In persuasive arguments, the opening statement sets the tone for the work, and your tone is a very sour and yellow note.

As for your argument, I find it full of folly and pretentious arrogance. You find the result not worth presuing, and so  everyone who is sane, rational, intellegant, worth listening to, must also feel the same way. Your entire argument is based on "the results of the ending are not satisfying" and while that might be true for you, it is not for everyone. And yet, in your very same post, you insinuate that it is indeed true, based on little more than a claim of divine purity of your opinion, manifested only from your own claim of somehow speaking for all, and dismissing all claims of dissention from the proposed interpretation as not even being possibly valid.

If you find speaking with conviction to be arrogance, then I can't help you.  I also suggest you be casreful on the BSN, bec ause I am nothing compared to others.  I, at least try to avoid direct insults to those I argue with.

Everything I say on my posts, I believe to be true. I think the endings are not worth pursuing.  I think EC doesn't help.  I've explained why.  If you disagree, fine.  I understand that not everyone likes the same thing.  But I also think that a game which imports chocies across three games and claims to be shaped by the player should have a wider range of endings to choose from.

 I've been saying that for months now.  But apparantly I just "dont' get it"  I'm also tired and in a foul mood.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
 I find it even worse that Bioware apparantly doesn't understand why people think that way and simply dismiss those who think so as unimportant anamolies, despite claims to be listening.    
  

I'm not sure there's evidence that they don't understand. Understanding why you feel the way you do wouldn't necessarily mean that they should do anything about it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 février 2013 - 09:02 .

[Cobretti ftw]

CronoDragoon wrote...

We'll see how many fans they lose when ME4 comes out. I doubt it will be as many as some predict.

Indeed. I think the majority will just be VERY carefull from now on. The pre-orders will drop for sure. BUt the game itself will depend on its quality.


If they release a ME4 thats VERY good, people will buy it. If they make a new trilogy and the last part SUCK AGAIN, people will buy the good parts, and many will buy the last part just because they already own the previous parts.

[Rhayak]

AlanC9 wrote...
It's funny.  We see so many posts saying that the problem with the ending is narrative and thematic incoherence, and yet so many people say the game would be better if they threw in a nonsensical conventional victory.

The problem IS narrative incoherence. And that's exactly why Conventional Victory would be appreciated

[Mixon]

I am one those dislikers of the ending but I will buy this dlc with hope that it will give me something that may help to finally say goodbye to Shep in RGB way of ending.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
 I find it even worse that Bioware apparantly doesn't understand why people think that way and simply dismiss those who think so as unimportant anamolies, despite claims to be listening.    
  

I'm not sure there's evidence that they don't understand. Understanding why you feel the way you do wouldn't necessarily mean that they should do anything about it.

I'd say EC is at least circumstantial evidence that they don't, given how easy it would have been to implement changes that might have made the endings far more tolerable without significantly changing the endings themselves.  Instead, we got a layer of sugar on the exact same endings.

And this after being reassured "we are listening"

Nor have they ever explained why they went the route they did, why it was so important to them.  tehy can't hide behind "it's important to the overall story" because there will be no sequel to this.  There's no reason why we couldn't have a multitude of wildly different endings.

[AlanC9]

Rhayak wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
It's funny.  We see so many posts saying that the problem with the ending is narrative and thematic incoherence, and yet so many people say the game would be better if they threw in a nonsensical conventional victory.

The problem IS narrative incoherence. And that's exactly why Conventional Victory would be appreciated

So we lanuch the attack on Earth because we can't win conventionally... except that we can win conventionally and we were just wrong about everything. Yeah, that's coherent.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm not sure there's evidence that they don't understand. Understanding why you feel the way you do wouldn't necessarily mean that they should do anything about it.

I'd say EC is at least circumstantial evidence that they don't, given how easy it would have been to implement changes that might have made the endings far more tolerable without significantly changing the endings themselves.  Instead, we got a layer of sugar on the exact same endings.

Which changes would those be, again?

[El Mito]

It's more than the ending for me.ME3 was just not a very good game. The first and last few missions were mindless and poorly designed, and the middle is full of dumb filler sidequests, a hackneyed plot that can't decide when things are urgent or not, level and mission design became largely unimaginative, fighting Cerberus forces was obnoxious and boring, and almost every new character introduced is awful or dull.

Nearly every bit of single player DLC introduced to ME3 is something that feels like an oversight from the original game's release. From Ashes was cut from the main game and plot mid-development and sets up some of the ideas of the ending and introduces an actually interesting new character.

Extended Cut makes the ending not nearly as confusing or plothole ridden, Omega was lame but it let you go back to an important location that seemed conspicuously missing, Leviathan provides new novel types of environments, new mysteries, and essential lore that were solely missing from ME3's main game of defending bases from Cerberus and searching for space artifacts, and Citadel presumably provides a chance to connect with your past and current crew that isn't a mechanical "OH HEY SHEPARD WELL BYE SHEPARD" cutscene like in the main game.

Modifié par El Mito, 22 février 2013 - 09:17 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
It's funny.  We see so many posts saying that the problem with the ending is narrative and thematic incoherence, and yet so many people say the game would be better if they threw in a nonsensical conventional victory.

The problem IS narrative incoherence. And that's exactly why Conventional Victory would be appreciated

So we lanuch the attack on Earth because we can't win conventionally... except that we can win conventionally and we were just wrong about everything. Yeah, that's coherent.

That was already Hackett's Plan B.  If they couldn't get Vendetta back from Cerberus, they'd bring the fleets to Earth and take their chances.

Besudes, winning aginst hopeless odds is a Shepard staple. 

[thepeaguy]

While people continue to cry and moan about how ME3 concluded the trilogy, I'll buy the next game.

It's funny how disgruntled consumers act like they're experts at making video games yet haven't made a successful franchise in their meagre existence.

All because you didn't get a final boss fight with Martin Sheen. Rofl.

[DetcelferVisionary]

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

Hey, it doesn't matter what we think. Merizan says that her spreadsheets say that we are in the minority if we dislike the ending, and Merizan is always right.

Fortunately her spreadsheets dont amount to a hill of beans.  

  EC effectively got this response from the MAJORITY   "it's alright,  not perfect,  not what we wanted,  but alright".  Who here is going to deny that?  So what Bioware bought themselves is trepidation.  Many people are no longer DAY 1 buyers.   Even if thats 1/10th of their customer base,  that's potentially 1/10th of their financial loss.  They can mark it up as a victory but they would only be fooling themselves.  

I still see this as a victory for the fans because you KNOW they will never pull a stunt like this again.  If they did,  I suspect that would be the straw that broke the camels back.

Modifié par DetcelferVisionary, 22 février 2013 - 09:25 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm not sure there's evidence that they don't understand. Understanding why you feel the way you do wouldn't necessarily mean that they should do anything about it.

I'd say EC is at least circumstantial evidence that they don't, given how easy it would have been to implement changes that might have made the endings far more tolerable without significantly changing the endings themselves.  Instead, we got a layer of sugar on the exact same endings.

Which changes would those be, again?

My personal favorite:

For High EMS  Destroy: as LI hesitates to put Shepard's name on the wall, have message come in over the intercom:  Shepard has been fund alive, cut to Normandy taking off.  Replace breath scene with EDI's "corpse" as the eyes flicker for a moment.

One altered scene, one additional line.

[Ryoten]

Mass Effect will go on, but it will go on with a different audience. The people who like the endings and like ME3, are people who joined the series at a later date. For them, the game was revolutionary. For those who started at ME1, the game was watered down.

Like most games owned by EA, Mass Effect (and possibly even Dragon Age) will be more of a cash cow game. It will have people buy into it, but they will buy into because they're pleased with mediocre. To them mediocre is amazing because, well for them it is. They never experienced the joy of the series when we did.

Modifié par Ryoten, 22 février 2013 - 09:34 .

[dorktainian]

Ryoten wrote...

Mass Effect will go on, but it will go on with a different audience. The people who like the endings and like ME3, are people who joined the series at a later date. For them, the game was revolutionary. For those who started at ME1, the game was watered down.

Like most games owned by EA, Mass Effect (and possibly even Dragon Age) will be more of a cash cow game. It will have people buy into it, but they will buy into because they're pleased with mediocre. To them mediocre is amazing because, well for them it is. They never experienced the joy of the series when we did.