1904 réponses à ce sujet

[Vlk3]

dreman9999 wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

I doubt that most of Thanemancers is ok with his death. And I'm certainly not ashamed of wanting him to live. The change of character is what makes it a lot worse.

@dreman9999 - there are plenty of reasons to believe that Thane wasn't doomed. We're siiting there and protesting for a very long time. Sure we have reason to do that.

You were first told he was dieing. Then youwere told it was terminal....
That leaves no space for saving him.

In ME1 Sovereign and Saren tells us that we will lose. Shepard haven't given up and that's why a victory was possible. People who accept everything what others tell them will never achieve anything.

Ignoring possible treatments, that might prolong Thane's life is just giving up.

Modifié par Vlk3, 24 février 2013 - 03:02 .

[john-in-france]

Dremen9999 posted a link to a video that explains a lot.
We know that there was a set universe for new ME3 players, that universe was arranged around Renegade Male Shepard.
If you watch the video, then you can see that Thane in ME3 seems to have suffered from lack of Import save features from ME2. He seems to have defaulted to Renegade malesheps friend. Which explains a lot about the characterization being off for Thanemancers. It is a different personality.

Sorry Dremen9999, but you are incorrect over Keprals. Thane states that he is dying, then later that it is a terminal disease. He turns down Paragon Shepards offer of Mordin and Chakwas looking into it because the Hanar Illuminated Primacy is already researching gene therapy for it, but explains that he believes that such a cure would not be in time for him.

Here and now Cystic Fibrosis is considered a terminal disease, however 5 years from now it may not be due to the present Gene Therapy research. That does not make Gene Therapy 'space magic' or Thane wrong in his description of his condition as he knew it at the time.
 

[dreman9999]

Vlk3 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

I doubt that most of Thanemancers is ok with his death. And I'm certainly not ashamed of wanting him to live. The change of character is what makes it a lot worse.

@dreman9999 - there are plenty of reasons to believe that Thane wasn't doomed. We're siiting there and protesting for a very long time. Sure we have reason to do that.

You were first told he was dieing. Then youwere told it was terminal....
That leaves no space for saving him.

In ME1 Sovereign and Saren tells us that we will lose. Shepard haven't given up and that's why a victory was possible. People who accept everything what others tell them will never achieve anything.

Ignoring possible treatments, that might prolong Thane's life is just giving up.

1. Thane declined the treatment/new lung.
2.The hanar wherethe only one who develop any form of cure the most and they we no were near having it work in time to save thane.
3.Even then Thane died of a wound that broke the final wall of his endurace ageinst his illness.

Sorry, terminal  illness mean no way to cure.

[dreman9999]

john-in-france wrote...

Dremen9999 posted a link to a video that explains a lot.
We know that there was a set universe for new ME3 players, that universe was arranged around Renegade Male Shepard.
If you watch the video, then you can see that Thane in ME3 seems to have suffered from lack of Import save features from ME2. He seems to have defaulted to Renegade malesheps friend. Which explains a lot about the characterization being off for Thanemancers. It is a different personality.

Sorry Dremen9999, but you are incorrect over Keprals. Thane states that he is dying, then later that it is a terminal disease. He turns down Paragon Shepards offer of Mordin and Chakwas looking into it because the Hanar Illuminated Primacy is already researching gene therapy for it, but explains that he believes that such a cure would not be in time for him.

Here and now Cystic Fibrosis is considered a terminal disease, however 5 years from now it may not be due to the present Gene Therapy research. That does not make Gene Therapy 'space magic' or Thane wrong in his description of his condition as he knew it at the time.
 

1.I posted that video in this forum.
2.No way is that any proof of what you are saying.

[EnaShepard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sparky28 wrote...

(And, yes, they did put hints). But as I said, it's not the biggest problem.

Please link to theses hints.

- The Hanar are working on a cure.
- In Lair of the Shadow Broker in Thane's dossier: he was an  eligible transplant candidate (he refused, presumably before ME2 events). This is a solution that could extend his life... perhaps until the Hanar actually find a cure, that wouldn't be a magical one since they are working on it.
- Cerberus News mentioned a new medigel  for the lungs that would "revolutionize internal medicine".

I'm going to quote Tasha vas Nar Rayya from the main Thane thread:
"And yet,  all that foreshadowing, dismissed. There was hope; not hope from desperate fans reaching for any half-baked scrap of information to  support their claim, but hope born of game-provided evidence. This was a
slap in the face. If Thane was always slated to die, why give any of it at all? Why have Thane mention that the Hanar were working on a cure?  Why put in Thane's Shadow Broker Dossier that he was an eligible  transplant candidate? Why release on the CDN information about a medigel for the lungs, when that information would only be of interest to a  select group of the fan base? Why recognize the "Cure Thane in ME3"  banner, giving more hope to fans? If this isn't trolling, I don't know any other name for it."

Modifié par Sparky28, 24 février 2013 - 03:11 .

[KENNY4753]

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

[dreman9999]

Thrazesul wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Thrazesul wrote...

ME3 Thane is alright with dying, feels content with it, whether he's romanced or not. As a friend it makes sense...

ME2 romanced Thane FEARED dying, he didn't want it, he was ashamed of it and wanted to live for Shepard's and Kolyat's sake.

The difference between the ME2 before suicide mission cutscene and when first meeting him in ME3 as romanced is frigging huge and cringe worthy.

Five Stages of Grief...http://grief.com/the...tages-of-grief/

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance

Clearly he was at the last stage.

He was at that last stage before he met Shepard in ME2, since he had accepted it back then.

He just turned  his self off and went into battle sleep. That last mission can easily be seen as depression as well being that he was doing it to die.
Even then, he still is back into acceptence agein but under different terms. Remember when you meet him on that mision he was literaly look for a sword to jump on. That form of acceptance is farmore similer  to a suicide.
In ME3, He clearly is waiting for death and enjoying his time left.

[john-in-france]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Thane declined the treatment/new lung.
2.The hanar wherethe only one who develop any form of cure the most and they we no were near having it work in time to save thane.
3.Even then Thane died of a wound that broke the final wall of his endurace ageinst his illness.

Sorry, terminal  illness mean no way to cure.

1) Yes he did, so another might live.
2) Up for debate. Whilst a form of therapy may not be available to the general public, medical trials are done before release. At the time, Thane believed that a general cure was beyond his expected lifespan.
3) He died of a gut wound caused by a sword, and the resulting blood loss, complicated by Keprals which is not the same thing.

Kirrahe is the default other option for the Kai Leng Fight. There is no reason for Thane to be fighting Kai Leng if you have saved Kirrahe. Therefore 3 would not have happened.

[dreman9999]

Sparky28 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Sparky28 wrote...

(And, yes, they did put hints). But as I said, it's not the biggest problem.

Please link to theses hints.

- The Hanar are working on a cure.
- In Lair of the Shadow Broker in Thane's dossier: he was an  eligible transplant candidate (he refused, presumably before ME2 events). This is a solution that could extend his life... perhaps until the Hanar actually find a cure, that wouldn't be a magical one since they are working on it.
- Cerberus News mentioned a new medigel  for the lungs that would "revolutionize internal medicine".

I'm going to quote Tasha vas Nar Rayya from the main Thane thread:
"And yet,  all that foreshadowing, dismissed. There was hope; not hope from desperate fans reaching for any half-baked scrap of information to  support their claim, but hope born of game-provided evidence. This was a
slap in the face. If Thane was always slated to die, why give any of it at all? Why have Thane mention that the Hanar were working on a cure?  Why put in Thane's Shadow Broker Dossier that he was an eligible  transplant candidate? Why release on the CDN information about a medigel for the lungs, when that information would only be of interest to a  select group of the fan base? Why recognize the "Cure Thane in ME3"  banner, giving more hope to fans? If this isn't trolling, I don't know any other name for it."

1. Far from finished.Thanes words himself.
2.He declined and it neverstated itwould curehim.
3.It never stated itwould work with his terminal illness.

lOOK UP WHAT TERMINAL ILLNESS MEANS.

[Vlk3]

KENNY4753 wrote...

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

A fair point.

Also, it was said that developing a genophage cure from Maelon's data would take years. Even without this data, we can save all krogan, but somehow drell are still doomed and a cure for their disease is impossible.

[dreman9999]

john-in-france wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Thane declined the treatment/new lung.
2.The hanar wherethe only one who develop any form of cure the most and they we no were near having it work in time to save thane.
3.Even then Thane died of a wound that broke the final wall of his endurace ageinst his illness.

Sorry, terminal  illness mean no way to cure.

1) Yes he did, so another might live.
2) Up for debate. Whilst a form of therapy may not be available to the general public, medical trials are done before release. At the time, Thane believed that a general cure was beyond his expected lifespan.
3) He died of a gut wound caused by a sword, and the resulting blood loss, complicated by Keprals which is not the same thing.

Kirrahe is the default other option for the Kai Leng Fight. There is no reason for Thane to be fighting Kai Leng if you have saved Kirrahe. Therefore 3 would not have happened.

1.That was no guarrantee hewould live.
2. Thane himself stateditwasfarfrom ready. No debateth ere
3.Which is my point. I did no say the wound killed him , just destroyed the last endurace he had ageist his illness.

And Kirrahe is not thedefault option and Thane dies any way if he is not part ofthe mission.

[dreman9999]

Vlk3 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

A fair point.

Also, it was said that developing a genophage cure from Maelon's data would take years. Even without this data, we can save all krogan, but somehow drell are still doomed and a cure for their disease is impossible.

Not really. You makeit sound that they plannedand build it from scratch. Someone else planned itand developed it. Wejust found the planned and put it together.

As you saying you going to mystriously find Thanes cure in a prothean ruin ?

[KENNY4753]

@Vik3 good point. despit Mordin's brilliance he should not have been able to make the cure so fast especially without Maelon's data so why are the Drell screwed?

also plenty of diseases were once considered to be terminal/auto-death but they found cures for them. like polio for example

[EnaShepard]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sparky28 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Sparky28 wrote...

(And, yes, they did put hints). But as I said, it's not the biggest problem.

Please link to theses hints.

- The Hanar are working on a cure.
- In Lair of the Shadow Broker in Thane's dossier: he was an  eligible transplant candidate (he refused, presumably before ME2 events). This is a solution that could extend his life... perhaps until the Hanar actually find a cure, that wouldn't be a magical one since they are working on it.
- Cerberus News mentioned a new medigel  for the lungs that would "revolutionize internal medicine".

I'm going to quote Tasha vas Nar Rayya from the main Thane thread:
"And yet,  all that foreshadowing, dismissed. There was hope; not hope from desperate fans reaching for any half-baked scrap of information to  support their claim, but hope born of game-provided evidence. This was a
slap in the face. If Thane was always slated to die, why give any of it at all? Why have Thane mention that the Hanar were working on a cure?  Why put in Thane's Shadow Broker Dossier that he was an eligible  transplant candidate? Why release on the CDN information about a medigel for the lungs, when that information would only be of interest to a  select group of the fan base? Why recognize the "Cure Thane in ME3"  banner, giving more hope to fans? If this isn't trolling, I don't know any other name for it."

1. Far from finished.Thanes words himself.
2.He declined and it neverstated itwould curehim.
3.It never stated itwould work with his terminal illness.

lOOK UP WHAT TERMINAL ILLNESS MEANS.

1. Indeed. Look at what I said in my second point.
2. If it wouldn't cure him it would at least certainly allow him to live longer... maybe until the Hanar cure is ready. Plus, it's never stated exactly WHEN he refused. If it's before he met Shepard, he should change his mind after the romance (since, during the romance, his character evolved: he's not ready to die anymore and knew of that potential solution). But nooo, ME3-Thane is ok with death again.
3. No, maybe not (but maybe yes) - but WHY would Bioware release this special news? It could only interest a part of the fandom and it was our part.

[Missy_MI]

dreman9999 wrote...
No they did notput hints. They statedform the startitwas a terminal illness...Look up what that mean.

There was no cure and they won't be one in time to save Thane. He was always going to die. You were toldthis from the start.

I personally feel it's a matter of narrative choices, not 'realism' in the ME universe. If the writers like the story arc better with Thane dying no matter what, then he stays dead, simple as that. But to say 'he has a terminal illness, so that's it' is silly. The genophage is long term death sentence for the entire krogan race, isn't it? Yet Shepard has the option to help cure that.

Actually Shepard helps accomplish many things during the course of ME3 that are just as improbable. Ending years long conflicts between races and even stopping the Reaper cycles for example. Yet it's completely lore-breaking to include an optional side quest where Shepard could save some scientists under siege who had already been working on a cure for keprals syndrome? Really?

I doubt there will be a cure for Thane in the Citadel DLC, but that doesn't mean it would completely stretch the bounds of reality if there was one.

[Vlk3]

dreman9999 wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

A fair point.

Also, it was said that developing a genophage cure from Maelon's data would take years. Even without this data, we can save all krogan, but somehow drell are still doomed and a cure for their disease is impossible.

Not really. You makeit sound that they plannedand build it from scratch. Someone else planned itand developed it. Wejust found the planned and put it together.

As you saying you going to mystriously find Thanes cure in a prothean ruin ?

I never said that I'm going to "mystriously find Thanes cure in prothean ruin".

Iit's one of the ideas, but for me, better would be just finding someone who invented Eupulmos Device, buy it/steal it (I don't care)  and give that to Thane. That would heal his lungs, giving him more time.

[spirosz]

Thane

[Hisilome]

dreman9999 wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

A fair point.

Also, it was said that developing a genophage cure from Maelon's data would take years. Even without this data, we can save all krogan, but somehow drell are still doomed and a cure for their disease is impossible.

Not really. You makeit sound that they plannedand build it from scratch. Someone else planned itand developed it. Wejust found the planned and put it together.

As you saying you going to mystriously find Thanes cure in a prothean ruin ?

Well, we'll never know, will we? Because Thane was forgotten as an LI to begin with and the totality of the issues with the character in ME3 stem from that simple fact!

But, really, if there're other instances of space magic out there...why not Thane? Mind you- and I know several other Thane fans have already said the same thing, a million times over in this thread-we are cool with his dying; eventhough BW themselves gave us a lot of hints his condition might be curable and we saw NO hint of anything having been tried and failed in ME3. Accepting his disease would kill him is something we knew and expected, aye.

But the way it all escalated to it, the very way the character was treated in ME3...THAT is the unacceptable part, that is the thing that has annoyed us so much  and that is what we would like to see fixed! His personality is fine for an unromanced, non-loyal ME2 Thane that would have never fallen in love with Shepard or made amends with his son; then he would remain to acceptance of his fate,  at peace with his inevitably coming death.

A romanced Thane was...lacking, he was just not there! And Shepard and everyone else are off character towards him, when he has been romanced which rubs all of us whose chars romanced him in a seriously wrong way, because it's just...off-key, feels very very wrong.

We'd like, even now, an option to save him, keep him alive a bit longer, if possible; if not, a bit more content, the character in-character, his memory mentioned after he was gone-Shepard got more comfort from her crew/squad members for killing Legion in my playthrough, Thane? He was not even mentioned, not even in passing!!

I don't know who you romanced or even if you romanced anyone, but if you did...How would you feel if your LI died right smack in the early parts of the game in a badly written, unncessarily painful and unsatisfactoy manner and, to add insult to injury,  noone even mentioned him/her or acknowledged they existed for the remainder of the game? I bet you'd be shouting for a way to make it right too!

Modifié par Hisilome, 24 février 2013 - 03:34 .

[EvanesceKunoichi]

I really hope they add Thane to this DLC, but I don't want to get my hopes up.
I stumbled upon an article about DA3 and look what Gaider said about Thane.

"Would doing romances in that way actually be popular? Probably not. Take the resolution of the Thane romance arc in 'ME3,' for instance. There are people who did (and still do) think that, having selected Thane as their romance, they should have been able to cure him of his illness and make everything better.

"Why? Because he’s their romance, and they’re entitled to have it be a happy one. Regardless of whether you think they are justified in feeling so, they do. I don’t think plausibility is really what they’re looking for," Gaider said.

That's not right at all, do you guys agree?

[dreman9999]

Missy_MI wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No they did notput hints. They statedform the startitwas a terminal illness...Look up what that mean.

There was no cure and they won't be one in time to save Thane. He was always going to die. You were toldthis from the start.

I personally feel it's a matter of narrative choices, not 'realism' in the ME universe. If the writers like the story arc better with Thane dying no matter what, then he stays dead, simple as that. But to say 'he has a terminal illness, so that's it' is silly. The genophage is long term death sentence for the entire krogan race, isn't it? Yet Shepard has the option to help cure that.

Actually Shepard helps accomplish many things during the course of ME3 that are just as improbable. Ending years long conflicts between races and even stopping the Reaper cycles for example. Yet it's completely lore-breaking to include an optional side quest where Shepard could save some scientists under siege who had already been working on a cure for keprals syndrome? Really?

I doubt there will be a cure for Thane in the Citadel DLC, but that doesn't mean it would completely stretch the bounds of reality if there was one.

The thinng about those impossible feats is that the ground would was in place before Shepard came in. He's/she's just final push to make it possible. And it all based on his skill sets of a nagotiator and military man/woman...
But thane illness requaires a different skill set form what Shepard has. That of a reachering medical doctor.
No way Shepard can make acure and he/she has to depend on someone elses skill. And we wellalready no thecure inproduction is far from finished.

[dreman9999]

Hisilome wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

A fair point.

Also, it was said that developing a genophage cure from Maelon's data would take years. Even without this data, we can save all krogan, but somehow drell are still doomed and a cure for their disease is impossible.

Not really. You makeit sound that they plannedand build it from scratch. Someone else planned itand developed it. Wejust found the planned and put it together.

As you saying you going to mystriously find Thanes cure in a prothean ruin ?

Well, we'll never know, will we? Because BW forgot Thane was an LI to begin with and the totality of the issues with the character in ME3 stem from that simple fact!

But, really, if there're other instances of space magic out there...why not Thane? Mind you- and I know several other Thane fans have already said the same thing, a million times over in this thread-we are cool with his dying; eventhough BW themselves gave us a lot of hints his condition might be curable and we saw NO hint of anything having been tried and failed in ME3. Accepting his disease would kill him is something we knew and expected, aye.

But the way it all escalated to it, the very way the character was treated in ME3...THAT is the unacceptable part, that is the thing that has annoyed us so much  and that is what we would like to see fixed! His personality is fine for an unromanced, non-loyal ME2 Thane that would have never fallen in love with Shepard or made amends with his on; then he would remain to acceptance of his fate,  at peace with his inevitably coming death.

A romanced Thane was...lacking, he was just not there! And Shepard and everyone else are off character towards him, when he has been romanced which rubs all of us whose chars romanced him in a seriously wrong way, because it's just...off-key, feels very very wrong.

We'd like, even now, an option to save him, keep him alive a bit longer, if possible; if not, a bit more content, the character in-character, his memory mentioned after he was gone-Shepard got more comfort from her crew/squad members for killing Legion in my playthrough, Thane? He was not even mentioned, not even in passing!!

I don't know who you romanced or even if you romanced anyone, but if you did...How would you feel if your LI died right smack in the early parts of the game in a badly written, unncessarily painful and unsatisfactoy manner and, to add insult to injury,  noone even mentioned him/her or acknowledged they existed for the remainder of the game? I bet you'd be shouting for a way to make it right too!

That just mean you have a rightto complain about the romance. That does not mean Bioware only made him die because they for got him asa romance.
So but it stands for the start he was dieing and they followed through.

[dreman9999]

Vlk3 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

if building a Reaper off switch is possible then saving Thane is still possible

A fair point.

Also, it was said that developing a genophage cure from Maelon's data would take years. Even without this data, we can save all krogan, but somehow drell are still doomed and a cure for their disease is impossible.

Not really. You makeit sound that they plannedand build it from scratch. Someone else planned itand developed it. Wejust found the planned and put it together.

As you saying you going to mystriously find Thanes cure in a prothean ruin ?

I never said that I'm going to "mystriously find Thanes cure in prothean ruin".

Iit's one of the ideas, but for me, better would be just finding someone who invented Eupulmos Device, buy it/steal it (I don't care)  and give that to Thane. That would heal his lungs, giving him more time.

And that's the problem. You're saying you should be able to do the impossible with someone elses skills. Ift here is no one that can do it, which clearly happens, it 's clear that it's impossible to save him.

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 février 2013 - 04:49 .

[john-in-france]

Dreman9999 it is obvious that you have not played the game as a Paragon Femshep who romanced Thane. Please go away and do so. Perhaps then you would appreciate that Thanes personality changed by the end of ME2. He did not want to die.

The Thane of ME3 is a reversion to pre-romanced Thane who is fatalistic. Now that may be down to failed Import coding or Bioware writing Thane as the default Maleshep Renegade companion from ME2. We shall most likely never know.

I appreciate your opinion of Terminal Illness. I have a different opinion, as do others on this thread. We shall have to agree to disagree. I am a Biomedical Engineer, what may be described as a terminal illness one year may just become a chronic illness the next due to new medical breakthroughs.

A cure for Keprals in the Protean ruins? Who knows...we did find a pretty good Reaper Bomb last time we went looking.

[Thrazesul]

To go back to the point of this thread, it seems a bit silly to not include all LIs and crew members in a dlc that is aimed for exactly that.

Anyone can figure out that those that will be left in the dust WILL get angry and will complain. Then they couldn't say what they did about the dlc, it's very misleading when they say it is about romances and friends. Of course people will expect everyone then.

I won't be content with another letter from Thane or a discussion with his son... that much is sure. No other fan of the other LIs would accept that either.

Modifié par Thrazesul, 24 février 2013 - 03:48 .

[Hisilome]

Sigh, BW had every right to make him die, even if I and all of us fans disagree with the notion! But the players who romanced him were completely and utterly disregarded, because he was forgotten as a LI; in the sense that we got no closure, no emotion from the romance in ME3-and you get the chance to save pretty much everyone else in the game, except Thane, so we got no choice, however impossible, to try either. And ME has always been about choice, so the lack of one there...is more than a little unfair.

Granted, alright, the game and writers demanded for him to die, I get that; dying defending the Citadel rather than just his disease is a good script choice, I'll argue...and it could have been powerful, dramatic and magnificent if handled correctly.

The problem was and still is that it wasn't, not from a LI point of view! For an unromanced, accepting of his fate Thane it was PERFECT!! For a romanced Thane who WANTED to live, it could not have been more wrong!

And here here, Thraz!! You are absolutely right!!!

Modifié par Hisilome, 24 février 2013 - 03:46 .