1904 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

DineBoo wrote...

Yep. Choosing Thane (or Jacob) in ME2 did not come with any warnings at all. There was nothing to indicate this might be a bad choice. And there was nothing indicating Jacob would be a cheater in ME3.

As of ME2 all romances were pretty much equal. ME3 rolls around and only femShep's LIs get taken away. Where's the equality in that? If things were fair, one of broShep's choices would be taken away too.

Thane fans getting small content is not what they want. It isn't about the cure, or if he dies, they just wanted to be treated equally with the other LI choices.

If this DLC adds enough content to bring Miri and Jack up to Liara type status, then it isn't much to think that Thane and Jacob fans wanted the same thing.

1. Why should there be? They're not supposed to spoil how characters are going to behave in future games. And they're not supposed to be Mary Sues who only act one way every second of every day. Jacob's cheating, while toolish, is realistic. Shepard was gone, Jacob moved on. For a Femshep who cheated on Kaidan or Liara, it's a hilarious irony.

2. I disagree with that notion. In Mass Effect 2, Jacob, Thane, and Jack got waaaay more chats with Shepard and character exploration than any of the other romances. With Garrus, Tali, and Miranda, it's like three talks, agree to bang, and you're done. Now in Mass Effect 3, Jacob, Thane, and Jack got the short end while Garrus, Tali, and Miranda got more.

2.2 And to be fair, Thane warned you right from his recruitment that he was going to die. And in Shadow Broker Lair files, his correspondence shows he declined getting a lung transplant when Dr Chakwas offered it as a possibile solution. Meaning he's choosing to die.

3. I don't see where the DLC is getting any Thane content. It's not even supposed to start until after he's dead. You do the coup, explore the Citadel and speak to Thane and see his death. You go back to the Normandy, and the DLC will first appear as a message in Shepard's unread messages like all the others.

4. Nobody is promising anything like that. Pure assumption.

[JECW]

MinttyMint wrote...

They wrote the character before deciding he should be a LI and while there was no certainty of "Hes going to die", he has an illness and clearly tells you he is dying. The warning was there. Saying well I romanced him so he cant die or he deserves a cure! Is stupid, what he deserves is more content. Sadly equality means nothing when they had to cut content, they cut it from the least popular LI's...

For the last time.
This isn't about him dying. It's about how bad his romance was, and the way he was treated in the game.
Yes we wanted to save him, but that is not the only problem with Thane in ME3.

[Minttymint]

JECW wrote...

MinttyMint wrote...

They wrote the character before deciding he should be a LI and while there was no certainty of "Hes going to die", he has an illness and clearly tells you he is dying. The warning was there. Saying well I romanced him so he cant die or he deserves a cure! Is stupid, what he deserves is more content. Sadly equality means nothing when they had to cut content, they cut it from the least popular LI's...

For the last time.
This isn't about him dying. It's about how bad his romance was, and the way he was treated in the game.
Yes we wanted to save him, but that is not the only problem with Thane in ME3.

I fully understand that but I see so much complaining over not having a cure when there are so many other ways to fix the romance and make it good again.  Him dying is most certainly not the only problem, in fact him dying shouldnt be a problem at all. My friends sister is marrying a dying man, knowing theres nothing she can do and she chooses to spend every moment she can with him as his loving wife.   Im just a little irratated by people thinking that his romance is doomed without a cure when its not.

[Cedryn]

They massacred Thane's character in ME3. They "dropped the ball", they forgot he was a LI. I think he deserves some additional content to compensate for all that.

[WhiteKnyght]

QuinP2B wrote...

They massacred Thane's character in ME3. They "dropped the ball", they forgot he was a LI. I think he deserves some additional content to compensate for all that.

Thane, Jacob, and Jack got nearly three times the material in Mass Effect 2 than Garrus, Tali, and Miranda.

In ME3, it's the other way around.

It looks like it balances out from my POV. You get more time with the ones who got skimped in ME2. And less with the ones who got more in ME2.

[Thrazesul]

MinttyMint wrote...

I fully understand that but I see so much complaining over not having a cure when there are so many other ways to fix the romance and make it good again.  Him dying is most certainly not the only problem, in fact him dying shouldnt be a problem at all. My friends sister is marrying a dying man, knowing theres nothing she can do and she chooses to spend every moment she can with him as his loving wife.   Im just a little irratated by people thinking that his romance is doomed without a cure when its not.

That *I* agree on anyway, I could deal with his death if his romance had been good and his death done well. Which it wasn't. Different Thane fans wants different things with his romance/life/death and I see no harm in that.

To be honest, you should be annoyed with the people going "he was terminally ill, suit yourself for romancing him and he was dying anyway" too. That's the comments that *really* gets to me.

Personally I think games should have options too (especially rpgs)... and I certainly expect the writers to keep their own characters in... character. >.<  Granted, Thane's writer was changed... which explains a lot. Unfortuantly.

Then there's the fact that Thane's the only LI that dies at all, with no choice. Just grates me they decided to pick a femshep LI, when she's already lacking LIs.

Modifié par Thrazesul, 01 mars 2013 - 01:42 .

[Minttymint]

Thrazesul wrote...

MinttyMint wrote...

-snip-

That *I* agree on anyway, I could deal with his death if his romance had been good and his death done well. Which it wasn't. Different Thane fans wants different things with his romance/life/death and I see no harm in that.

To be honest, you should be annoyed with the people going "he was terminally ill, suit yourself for romancing him and he was dying anyway" too. That's the comments that *really* gets to me.

Personally I think games should have options too (especially rpgs)... and I certainly expect the writers to keep their own characters in... character. >.<  Granted, Thane's writer was changed... which explains a lot. Unfortuantly.

Then there's the fact that Thane's the only LI that dies at all, with no choice. Just grates me they decided to pick a femshep LI, when she's already lacking LIs.

I would get annoyed with the haters but its a lost cause and besides Thane fans are a lot nicer to talk to...
Maybe if it was like the Geth/Quarian peace, you have to have Kirrahe alive, Thane loyal etc... Then an interupt pops up. Id be okay with that.  I did not know he had different writers, the ME3 one did not do a good job.
If there was more heterosexual LIs for FemShep, do you think it would have been better for you?

[Dusty Everman]

Thrazesul wrote...
And seriously zombie- Thane? Wow.

I do apologize for using the term "zombie-Thane".  I did not mean to be disrespectful.  I was just trying to say that we couldn't bring him back from the dead.  This pack will most likely be played from people's auto-save made just before the assault on the Illusive Man's base, well after Thane has passed on.  We don't want to force players to play the game completely over to see new content.  We are adding to your story, not changing what you've already experienced in the past.

That said, we tried to make a positive experience for those who romanced Thane.  We'll see in a week if you think that was successful or not. 

And as an aside, the reason "zombie-Thane" came so easily from my lips (or, er, fingers), is that during the development of ME3 is was a common logic bug to have dead characters accidentally appear where they shouldn't.  It was common for us to say things like "There goes Garrus smooching up with zombie-Tali", or "Hey, I just got an email from zombie-Wrex".  There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

[Thrazesul]

MinttyMint wrote...

I would get annoyed with the haters but its a lost cause and besides Thane fans are a lot nicer to talk to...
Maybe if it was like the Geth/Quarian peace, you have to have Kirrahe alive, Thane loyal etc... Then an interupt pops up. Id be okay with that.  I did not know he had different writers, the ME3 one did not do a good job.
If there was more heterosexual LIs for FemShep, do you think it would have been better for you?

Thane would have remained poorly written, so maybe not; it's a case I can't imagine. But I would feel that hetero femsheps were less thought of as guiena pigs when it came to "dramatic" character development. Considering 2 of those LIs were cut short, one way or another.

The interrupts have been discussed before and they seem reasonable, I think. I'd be fine with just adding to his health, maybe a few years. He'd still be "dying" but he'd been given some more time.

The fact that Shepard is locked in for 6 months is just gruesome, considering his short time.

[Thrazesul]

Dusty Everman wrote...

Thrazesul wrote...
And seriously zombie- Thane? Wow.

I do apologize for using the term "zombie-Thane".  I did not mean to be disrespectful.  I was just trying to say that we couldn't bring him back from the dead.  This pack will most likely be played from people's auto-save made just before the assault on the Illusive Man's base, well after Thane has passed on.  We don't want to force players to play the game completely over to see new content.  We are adding to your story, not changing what you've already experienced in the past.

That said, we tried to make a positive experience for those who romanced Thane.  We'll see in a week if you think that was successful or not. 

And as an aside, the reason "zombie-Thane" came so easily from my lips (or, er, fingers), is that during the development of ME3 is was a common logic bug to have dead characters accidentally appear where they shouldn't.  It was common for us to say things like "There goes Garrus smooching up with zombie-Tali", or "Hey, I just got an email from zombie-Wrex".  There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

Well, taken out of it's context, it did sound a bit... err, off. I understand your point, although I'd love to replay the game to see such a change. But yes, many wouldn't or shouldn't have to.

Thanks for popping in and explaining a bit! Means a lot!

[mechalynx]

Dusty Everman wrote...

Thrazesul wrote...
And seriously zombie- Thane? Wow.

I do apologize for using the term "zombie-Thane".  I did not mean to be disrespectful.  I was just trying to say that we couldn't bring him back from the dead.  This pack will most likely be played from people's auto-save made just before the assault on the Illusive Man's base, well after Thane has passed on.  We don't want to force players to play the game completely over to see new content.  We are adding to your story, not changing what you've already experienced in the past.

That said, we tried to make a positive experience for those who romanced Thane.  We'll see in a week if you think that was successful or not. 

And as an aside, the reason "zombie-Thane" came so easily from my lips (or, er, fingers), is that during the development of ME3 is was a common logic bug to have dead characters accidentally appear where they shouldn't.  It was common for us to say things like "There goes Garrus smooching up with zombie-Tali", or "Hey, I just got an email from zombie-Wrex".  There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

I really do mean no offence, but you just broke my FemSheps' hearts all over. 

[devSin]

Dusty Everman wrote...

There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

Wasn't there still a bug where zombie-Tali would visit Shepard's quarters before the attack on Cronos (even though she jumped off a cliff on Rannoch)?

Only four more days! Looking forward to it (I'm going to try to guess your combat area, though I'm still not sure how we'll be able to tell).

Modifié par devSin, 01 mars 2013 - 02:38 .

[Dusty Everman]

devSin wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

Wasn't there still a bug where zombie-Tali would visit Shepard's quarters before the attack on Cronos (even though she jumped off a cliff on Rannoch)?

Only four more days! Looking forward to it (I'm going to try to guess your combat area, but I can't imagine how I'd be able to tell at this point).

Oooo, that does sound familiar.  I think we fixed that in a later DLC or patch, didn't we?

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience.  Choices you make two games earlier can change what you see in ME3.  What other game has done that?  It's a testing nightmare.  I tip my hat and bow deeply in gratitude to the QA teams of Mass Effect.

I can't wait to talk to you about the DLC once its been released to the wild!

[N7Keller]

Dusty Everman wrote...

Oooo, that does sound familiar.  I think we fixed that in a later DLC or patch, didn't we?

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience.  Choices you make two games earlier can change what you see in ME3.  What other game has done that?  It's a testing nightmare.  I tip my hat and bow deeply in gratitude to the QA teams of Mass Effect.

I can't wait to talk to you about the DLC once its been released to the wild!

As much as I loved it, I doubt we will ever see it as complex as the Mass Effect Trilogy.  I saw zombie Tali once, although I thought it was a ghost. Tried to call the Ghostbusters but they are all dead.
The chocies mattered for me !

Modifié par norcalgamer, 01 mars 2013 - 02:54 .

[Celtic man51]

devSin wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

Wasn't there still a bug where zombie-Tali would visit Shepard's quarters before the attack on Cronos (even though she jumped off a cliff on Rannoch)?

Only four more days! Looking forward to it (I'm going to try to guess your combat area, though I'm still not sure how we'll be able to tell).

Sounds like the game fixed your mistake.
Who in their right mind would kill Tali?

[DineBoo]

Never mind wrong thread

Modifié par DineBoo, 01 mars 2013 - 03:04 .

[devSin]

Dusty Everman wrote...

Oooo, that does sound familiar.  I think we fixed that in a later DLC or patch, didn't we?

I didn't have a Tali romance, so I never got to see it for myself (I just remember it being mentioned last year).

I can't imagine anybody with a Tali romance not siding with her in that scene, so even if it wasn't fixed, I'm not sure anybody would know. :-)

Dusty Everman wrote...

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience.  Choices you make two games earlier can change what you see in ME3.  What other game has done that?  It's a testing nightmare.  I tip my hat and bow deeply in gratitude to the QA teams of Mass Effect.

I think they're talking more about the narrative impact of actions you perform and decisions you make throughout the trilogy—the particulars change, but the result often is the same. I don't believe it's a criticism of the amazing work you guys did behind the scenes to craft such a personal experience; it's more a complaint about how things always flow into "choke points" that are relatively generic (though I'm not sure even that's accurate; recently, this has more been a way to criticize the ending, which has little narrative variance regarding everything that's come before).

But it's definitely been an experience, and there's a huge difference between importing and starting a vanilla game, and it has been a joy to play through the games and see the different states for the game world and to have that continuity (except for GIGO import bugs). I'm not sure there's anybody who would seriously try to claim it's not an incredible achievement.

And the Normandy has always been amazing. ;-)

Modifié par devSin, 01 mars 2013 - 03:25 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Dusty Everman wrote...

devSin wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

There's a whole lot of could-be-dead characters we need to account for, and as far as I know, we fixed all those type bugs before ship.

Wasn't there still a bug where zombie-Tali would visit Shepard's quarters before the attack on Cronos (even though she jumped off a cliff on Rannoch)?

Only four more days! Looking forward to it (I'm going to try to guess your combat area, but I can't imagine how I'd be able to tell at this point).

Oooo, that does sound familiar.  I think we fixed that in a later DLC or patch, didn't we?

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience.  Choices you make two games earlier can change what you see in ME3.  What other game has done that?  It's a testing nightmare.  I tip my hat and bow deeply in gratitude to the QA teams of Mass Effect.

I can't wait to talk to you about the DLC once its been released to the wild!

Player expectation is a b!tch, huh?

I get what you mean, and I love the variances in ME3 based on your different choices.

It's just that a lot of players are oversensitive, they feel like if their favorite decisions don't get a significant enough exposure, results in a completely unique level/story, or is taken into account during the game's final mission, that it didn't count for anything at all and they blatantly ignore the differences that are there. Which is just selfish and greedy on their part. I mean, really, in what way could whether your not you picked Anderson as councilor, or chose to cap Shiala affect whether or not you defeat the Reapers? It's the compilation of everything that lets you be able to bring the fight back to Earth.

The only decision in the Mass Effect series I even remotely feel didn't get enough variance was the Collector Base. Cerberus is pretty much the same with or without it. Of course the choice directly effects the ending by lowering the base cost of Control/Destroy depending on your choice. Still, would have been cool to see Cerberus troopers toting collector weapons/equipment into battle - assault rifles, particle beams, hover platforms etc. Add to the challenge.

Mass Effect 3 haters are like Mordin in Mass Effect 2. Too focused on the big picture to see all of the small pictures that it is made of(I believe Mordin uses that same metaphor when talking about the mistake he made recreating the Genophage.) The decisions from ME1 and ME2 affect the small pictures, and done widely enough, can significantly alter the ME3 experience.

And a lot of players blatantly ignore the fact that all of Mass Effect 3 was meant to be an ending - a goodbye. Even if whether or not you get.

Me? I'm happy for the good times ahead, and I'm eager to meet whatever challenges I'm faced with head on.

[Versus Omnibus]

Dusty Everman wrote...

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience. 

I fail to see how a love-interest suddenly cheating on you or another dying by something you could actually prevent was designed to satisfy people.

[David7204]

It kind of irritates me that this forum seems to drastically change its stance on whether good-choices-should-lead-to-bad-outcomes depending on whatever is expedient at the moment.

When people are just discussing choices in the abstract, people here will swear up and down that having drastic, unforeseen and unforeshadowed outcomes from choices is the best idea ever. They'll claim it's 'realistic.' It's 'mature writing.' It's 'real choices.'

And yet when players face consequences such at their love interest actually dying, they get upset. They claim 'bad writing.' They make all sorts of accusations.

(For the record, I completely believe the latter is true. I absolutely believe that for choices and heroism to be meaningful,' good' choices need to lead to 'good' outcomes and vice-versa.)

[jtav]

Many decisions don't have enough variance. Some do. Let's take two side missions to compare. Jacob's mission is largely unchanged whether he's in it or not. Jack's mission is very different. If she lives, the kids are more confident and happier, plus Prangley survives. If she's dead, it's a very bleak mission. The whole game should have been like Grissom in that regard.

[David7204]

That would be a stupidly ridiculous amount of work. No.

[d4eaming]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience. 

I fail to see how a love-interest suddenly cheating on you or another dying by something you could actually prevent was designed to satisfy people.

Yeah, exactly. From what I just read, there is really jack-all of Thane anything except, maybe, someone recognizing he died.

My desire for this DLC just plummeted, to be quite honest. Thanks for that.

[samgurl775]

QuinP2B wrote...

They massacred Thane's character in ME3. They "dropped the ball", they forgot he was a LI. I think he deserves some additional content to compensate for all that.

"It's a good thing we didn't have to add another name to the wall."