1904 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

All those people saying that Thane is at peace with his death need to watch this.

If you romance him he is NOT at peace with dying anymore.

He didn't sound like that in ME3, when Shep meets up with him in the hospital.   He seems pretty certain that his final moments are upon him.  "It is not your time, but it is mine."  "It is a good end to a life."  And etc.

:wizard: Give the man a cookie !! :wizard:

PRECISELY!

Now you see why we are mad as hell ? This isn't the guy we met on ME2. The new writter completely dropped the ball and wrote a different person, mopey and selfish who couldn't care less if he was leaving a fatherless son behind or if his loved one needed his support since she was about to embark in a deadly mission.

[RShara]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Masha Potato wrote...

The point is that he wasn't at peace with his fate if you romance him in ME2. And then he had a minor personality flip about it in ME3, but hey i can name like 3 characters who didn't have weird personality flip in ME3.

I'm not sure who i'm talking to but whatever i guess

Time did pass, he had time to think.  Was it really that strange?

If it had been explained and there'd been a mature dialogue about it , no.  But Thane is like, "No it's cool, I'm still dying."  And Shep goes, "Oh, sorry."

[lyssalu]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Masha Potato wrote...

The point is that he wasn't at peace with his fate if you romance him in ME2. And then he had a minor personality flip about it in ME3, but hey i can name like 3 characters who didn't have weird personality flip in ME3.

I'm not sure who i'm talking to but whatever i guess

Time did pass, he had time to think.  Was it really that strange?

there was no reason given for thane's reversal.  character development can't happen offscreen; that's pretty elementary.  

[Leonia]

HJF4 wrote...

but at the end of the day he's the writer's character and not the player's.

If that's your reasoning, do you think what they did with Jacob was totally fine? He is also technically optional because he can die in the suicide mission.

If Thane is at peace with his fate,

If you romance Thane in ME2 you get a very strong impression that he's afraid of dying and NOT at peace with his death.

I got the impression in ME2 that Shepard added a new complication to something he was totally ok with until that moment but then ME3 came along and he was at peace. That's how I saw it anyway, your mileage may vary.

And Jacob, well, that was fine too. I can see why the Jacobmancers might not like it (and I can see why the Thanemancers aren't happy) but that's how the cookie crumbles. If you're going to mention the SM then all LIs bar the VS and Liara are fair game. Thane joins the team so late in ME2 though so it's easy to see why he is not given "equal treatment".

Modifié par leonia42, 01 mars 2013 - 07:32 .

[devSin]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I really wish people would back up these comments.

The "people" you are referring to here is a level designer who has worked on the series since the very first game.

Who designed the Normandy *and* wrote its crew in ME2, and continued in ME3 while also writing Steve.

As was explained, he was trying to respond to something that came up in the Steve group (since he's Steve's writer, he occasionally checks in, especially with the last DLC being finished and so near to release). He didn't intend to cause offense, and he didn't want to spoil anything or contribute to unreasonable expectations. (And all this information is publicly available, if you visit the group or read what he's posted in this thread.)

He is not Thane's writer, nor does he have any say in content that relates to Thane. He was simply offering what information he felt he could share about the Thane-related content that is going to be in the upcoming DLC to somebody who expressed a concern about it.

I understand being upset with the way Thane was handled in ME3 and about the way he may be treated in the final DLC, but there's no reason at all for you to take it out on Dusty. He's never been anything but respectful and helpful and genuine.

Modifié par devSin, 01 mars 2013 - 07:35 .

[LanceSolous13]

HJF4 wrote...

You only get the impression of it on a non-romance Shepard.

Romanced, Thane spells it out for you that he's afraid of leaving Shepard and Kolyat alone.

Yes...they could have had Thane die or resign himself to death for non-romance Shepards but have him fight to live with romanced Shepards, at least.

I might remember reading that someone from Bioware basically said that they forgot that Thane had a romance.

Errrrrr.... My point was that Thane would probably remaind resigned for death upon remaining un-loyal to Shepard.

Loyal and Romanced Thane should be willing to continue life for Kolyat/and Shepard.

[New Display Name]

It'd be a little more believable that Thane changed his mind if Jacob hadn't also changed his mind. As it is it seems they shoved Thane and Jacob under the carpet to focus on Kaidan & Garrus and especially male Shepard's romances.

[radishson]

 grey_wind, that's a really creative option.  It hurts me as a big Thane softy, but it couldve been implemented very powerfully.  Gives a nice set-up for more of Thane's religious introspection, too.  Of course, going down that route would need more reason to keep him alive above romantic interest - I doubt things would go well romantically if you made a drastic choice like that.

The more I think about development possibilities, the more I realize the only way I'll be satisfied is if Bioware were tomake an entire Thane-centric game.  It could be like AC, except with coherent storytelling and stuff!

[Renmiri1]

Thane can join as soon as Horizon

[Rinji the Bearded]

RShara wrote...

If it had been explained and there'd been a mature dialogue about it , no.  But Thane is like, "No it's cool, I'm still dying."  And Shep goes, "Oh, sorry."

I'm not saying that part was exactly stellar writing or anything, but I saw similiar arguments about Dragon Age Anders vs Dragon Age 2 Anders, with people saying he wasn't the same character and that he was a retcon and etc. 

And I didn't see it that way at all, I guess.  People can change their minds and not really talk about it, it's believable.

[LanceSolous13]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Masha Potato wrote...

The point is that he wasn't at peace with his fate if you romance him in ME2. And then he had a minor personality flip about it in ME3, but hey i can name like 3 characters who didn't have weird personality flip in ME3.

I'm not sure who i'm talking to but whatever i guess

Time did pass, he had time to think.  Was it really that strange?

Yes. No one mentions how strange this 180 Character Flip is. Its bad writing.

If it was intentionally done that way, Shepard should comment that Thane wasn't that way when they were last together.

However, Shepard remains silent as though none of this is a shock.

[RShara]

It's bad storytelling.

Your LOVED ONE suddenly is fine with dying, when previously he wasn't, with no explanation giving, and you're fine with it? Go happily on your way? Really? How is that believable?

[David7204]

HJF4 wrote...

It'd be a little more believable that Thane changed his mind if Jacob hadn't also changed his mind. As it is it seems they shoved Thane and Jacob under the carpet to focus on Kaidan & Garrus and especially male Shepard's romances.

That's stupid. Nobody romanced Jacob in the first place. That's the whole reason why they picked him to have another relationship in the first place.

[Rinji the Bearded]

lyssalu wrote...

there was no reason given for thane's reversal.  character development can't happen offscreen; that's pretty elementary.  

Yes it can.  While I might say that there might have been room for Shepard to ask, "Hey what's with the change of heart, man,"  I can't really blame time for changing a person.  The protagonist can't exactly read minds, either.

[Leonia]

Maera Imrov wrote...

Definitely was the thing that bothered me most, yep. So much so that just to kind of mollify my own 'wtf?' reaction, I penned a very short scene of Garrus and my Shep talking it over in front of the Wall of Names. Nothing mindblowingly awesome, but enough to have kind of brought closure to that little 'Three Amigos' thing for them I had built up in my head over the course of ME2. That the writers didn't have Joker or Garrus say something will baffle me for all time. Both are pretty much brother figures, at least to my Shep. Neither reacts. *shrugs*

That sounds really nice, it's a shame you had to resort to fanfiction to get what probably should have been in the game already but it's really cool that the game inspired you to do that. I think, if I'm honest, that the lack of reaction is the biggest issue, not so much the lack of a proper cure or anything else.

[lyssalu]

it's all a lot of moot points, anyway. the problem isn't that he died -- the problem is the manner in which he died, the inconsistency within his character arc, and the freaky make out scene in the lobby of a hospital followed by, "hey shep i wanna die now how r u buddy"

y'all keep talking about how we knew he was going to die, but WE DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS GOING TO DIE BECAUSE HE GOT STABBED BY A REALLY BASIC NINJA IN A POORLY CHOREOGRAPHED CUT SCENE

it's really not that hard to grasp how sloppy everything was, which obviously just added insult to injury. SHEPARD DIES ANYWAY. idgaf if thane dies or not but it didn't have to be an awkward on screen death where you pray over his dead body with his son wHAT THE HELL MAN

[Masha Potato]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Masha Potato wrote...

The point is that he wasn't at peace with his fate if you romance him in ME2. And then he had a minor personality flip about it in ME3, but hey i can name like 3 characters who didn't have weird personality flip in ME3.

I'm not sure who i'm talking to but whatever i guess

Time did pass, he had time to think.  Was it really that strange?

you can explain any bad piece of characterization with that so I don't think it's a constructive argument

[RShara]

RinjiRenee wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

there was no reason given for thane's reversal.  character development can't happen offscreen; that's pretty elementary.  

Yes it can.  While I might say that there might have been room for Shepard to ask, "Hey what's with the change of heart, man,"  I can't really blame time for changing a person.  The protagonist can't exactly read minds, either.

So your significant other is dying.  He's fighting desperately to live, is full of fire and determination.
You're called away for 6 months--for whatever reason you like.
You come back, and y our significant other says, "I'm dying, it's fine, go about your business."

You really have no problem or see no problem with this?

[Terraforming2154]

David7204 wrote...

HJF4 wrote...

It'd be a little more believable that Thane changed his mind if Jacob hadn't also changed his mind. As it is it seems they shoved Thane and Jacob under the carpet to focus on Kaidan & Garrus and especially male Shepard's romances.

That's stupid. Nobody romanced Jacob in the first place. That's the whole reason why they picked him to have another relationship in the first place.

It doesn't really matter if Jacob was less romanced than the other options in ME2 -- the writers made the decision to make him a romance option in ME2 and they should have followed through with the relationship in ME3. They could have given him the smallest amount of romantic content and been done with it.  Instead, they decided to make him a cheating bastard and effectively take away one of the romance options for female Shepards. There was no need for that. At all.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 01 mars 2013 - 07:39 .

[LanceSolous13]

devSin wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I really wish people would back up these comments.

The "people" you are referring to here is a level designer who has worked on the series since the very first game.

Who designed the Normandy *and* wrote its crew in ME2, and continued in ME3 while also writing Steve.

As was explained, he was trying to respond to something that came up in the Steve group (since he's Steve's writer, he occasionally checks in, especially with the last DLC being finished and so near to release). He didn't intend to cause offense, and he didn't want to spoil anything or contribute to unreasonable expectations. (And all this information is publicly available, if you visit the group or read what he's posted in this thread.)

He is not Thane's writer, nor does he have any say in content that relates to Thane. He was simply offering what information he felt he could share about the Thane-related content that is going to be in the upcoming DLC to somebody who expressed a concern about it.

I understand being upset with the way Thane was handled in ME3 and about the way he may be treated in the final DLC, but there's no reason at all for you to take it out on Dusty. He's never been anything but respectful and helpful and genuine.

I'm sorry for the rudeness in my comment but every interview with any of the ME3 devs go on about how 'Choices from ME1 can effect ME3' and 'One random thing from ME1 can have such a large impact in the final installment' (paraphrasing here) when I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that such statements are true.

I'm not angry at Dusty at all, as I'm happy that someone is comunicating here instead of ignoring us, which would be worse. Its just those comments that have no evidence to back them up are was bug the crap out of me more than anything else in this entire jumbled mess we call Mass Effect 3.

[lyssalu]

RinjiRenee wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

there was no reason given for thane's reversal.  character development can't happen offscreen; that's pretty elementary.  

Yes it can.  While I might say that there might have been room for Shepard to ask, "Hey what's with the change of heart, man,"  I can't really blame time for changing a person.  The protagonist can't exactly read minds, either.

okay, dude -- it can happen, but it can only happen badly.  and once again, you're saying what i just said while for some reason maintaining the image of holding a contrary position.  if you have to metagame in order to come up with reasons for why something happened, it's because a writer seriously screwed up.

[Renmiri1]

leonia42 wrote...

I got the impression in ME2 that Shepard added a new complication to something he was totally ok with until that moment but then ME3 came along and he was at peace. That's how I saw it anyway, your mileage may vary.

Oi

Let's start with Thane's first convo. He is fine with being an assassin, he is just a tool, not the real killer, isn't that what he tells you ?
But pray tell what is his loyalty mission ?
To avoid his son from being an assassin. Sounds like a guy who is perfectly fine with being an assassin ? If you say yes, I have a bridge in New York to sell to you

Thane says things out loud to convince himself. But inside he is not so sure, not so strong, not so "peacefull". If you had payed ANY attention to detail you would have seen at least the example I just gave you.

With his death, it is the same. Outwardly he was "at peace" but inside he was afraid of wasting away in a hospital. Which is precisely what ME3 Thane wants to do. That is not the THane we met om ME2. That is just a husk.

[LanceSolous13]

RinjiRenee wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

there was no reason given for thane's reversal.  character development can't happen offscreen; that's pretty elementary.  

Yes it can.  While I might say that there might have been room for Shepard to ask, "Hey what's with the change of heart, man,"  I can't really blame time for changing a person.  The protagonist can't exactly read minds, either.

It can, sure. Should it? Nope. That's a basic rule of character development.

Also, a basic rule of storytelling in general.

SHOW, DON'T TELL.

Its crap storytelling and why we're upset.

[Rinji the Bearded]

RShara wrote...

So your significant other is dying.  He's fighting desperately to live, is full of fire and determination.
You're called away for 6 months--for whatever reason you like.
You come back, and y our significant other says, "I'm dying, it's fine, go about your business."

You really have no problem or see no problem with this?

I would be sad, yes.   Heartbroken, even.  I can't imagine life without my SO.  But if my SO were to accept death after a period of time, I would accept it as their decision to make.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 01 mars 2013 - 07:41 .

[New Display Name]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

there was no reason given for thane's reversal.  character development can't happen offscreen; that's pretty elementary.  

Yes it can.  While I might say that there might have been room for Shepard to ask, "Hey what's with the change of heart, man,"  I can't really blame time for changing a person.  The protagonist can't exactly read minds, either.

It can, sure. Should it? Nope. That's a basic rule of character development.

Also, a basic rule of storytelling in general.

SHOW, DON'T TELL.

Its crap storytelling and why we're upset.

This sums up my thoughts on his character development.