1904 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

devSin wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

No, no no no no no. Please no... Don't let that be true. He wnated to write those characters? Thank god Patrick and Sylvia got to Liara first...

He wanted to write Samara. I don't think Liara was up for grabs.

Sylvia wrote most of Liara in LotSB, and she wrote Liara completely in ME3 (I don't think Patrick was involved). She also wrote Samara (including the monastery mission), the conversation you can have with Legion on the ship, the two side missions on Rannoch, I think about a third or so of the minor Citadel conversations (including the Shepard VI and refund guy), and most of the war asset descriptions.

But she left the team before ME3 even shipped (she moved to the DA team). A new writer handled Liara for this DLC (though Sylvia has said that she got to see the writing and really liked it).

Sylvia wrote most of Liara's content for ME3, but Patrick Weekes wrote the conversation with Matriarch Aethyta and John Dombrow wrote dialogue for the post-Thessia clash with Javik.

[Oransel]

d4eaming wrote...

radishson wrote...

dreaming - They don't get it because they don't care. There are copious supporters of Jack and Miranda content, both of whom received far better treatment than Thane. When it comes to Broshep LIs, apparently a fulfilling, well-written romance is to be expected. No one fights over Jack and Miranda the way they fight over Thane and Jacob.

I know :/ Everyone gets pissed if you kill Miranda, Jack, or Tali, but if it's Kaidan or Thane, no one gives a flip. Pretty sure it's because Kaidan is a fem LI or a gay LI, and because Thane is fem LI, neither of which are large enough demographics for people to care about. I really can't stand Miranda at all, but I sure never thought people who liked her should have less.

And hey, they get the option to sodding save her or not. Same with Jack and Tali. But how dare Thane romancers want the same ****ing option.

Ugh, this is making me so angry.

Because Bioware thought that the ammount of work, money and time to fix Thane's story was not worth it. Why they think so? Well, because they needed to lower tha size of the game and Thane and Jacob were the least popular demographic according to their research, so they cut them. Is that bad, unfair and plain wrong? Very. Does it make sense? Yes, unfortunately. Same situation happens in DLC. I bet Jacobmancers will see nothing new in it, well, maybe some angry dialogue, but that's it.

Also, it looks like the best moment to play Citadel DLC is right before storming Cerberus HQ.

Modifié par Oransel, 01 mars 2013 - 09:12 .

[David7204]

It sure would be nice to see someone whining about Jacob that actually romanced Jacob.

[devSin]

Han Shot First wrote...

Sylvia wrote most of Liara's content for ME3, but Patrick Weekes wrote the conversation with Matriarch Aethyta and John Dombrow wrote dialogue for the post-Thessia clash with Javik.

And Mac wrote Liara on Mars and up to the Council meeting, and John wrote Liara on Tuchanka, etc.

The character writer does the Normandy and Citadel conversations, while the mission conversations are done by the writer for that mission. Banters are also usually handled by a single person (and in the case of Aethyta, it was Patrick writing the whole exchange, true).

Trying to list every single author who wrote content for a character is not an effective use of time. :-)

Modifié par devSin, 01 mars 2013 - 09:18 .

[iamthedave3]

You haven't read back a page or two, 7204. There's several people in here who romanced Jacob.

Not me, though. I found him - like most of the human characters in the series - to be very, very boring.

[d4eaming]

Oransel wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

I know :/ Everyone gets pissed if you kill Miranda, Jack, or Tali, but if it's Kaidan or Thane, no one gives a flip. Pretty sure it's because Kaidan is a fem LI or a gay LI, and because Thane is fem LI, neither of which are large enough demographics for people to care about. I really can't stand Miranda at all, but I sure never thought people who liked her should have less.

And hey, they get the option to sodding save her or not. Same with Jack and Tali. But how dare Thane romancers want the same ****ing option.

Ugh, this is making me so angry.

Because Bioware thought that the ammount of work, money and time to fix Thane's story was not worth it. Why they think so? Well, because they needed to lower tha size of the game and Thane and Jacob were the least popular demographic according to their research, so they cut them. Is that bad, unfair and plain wrong? Very. Does it make sense? Yes, unfortunately. Same situation happens in DLC. I bet Jacobmancers will see nothing new in it, well, maybe some angry dialogue, but that's it.

Also, it looks like the best moment to play Citadel DLC is right before storming Cerberus HQ.

Unfortunately. I will definitely appreciate more Garrus and Kaidan. I wanted to romance Garrus in ME1 as it was, so it'll be nice getting extra. Doesn't take away the sting over Thane, though.

[d4eaming]

iamthedave3 wrote...

You haven't read back a page or two, 7204. There's several people in here who romanced Jacob.

Not me, though. I found him - like most of the human characters in the series - to be very, very boring.

I might have found him more appealing if my Shepard didn't do the sulky voice with him. (And done it with Garrus instead )

[David7204]

Did they 'canonically' romance him? As in, romance him because they think he's the best love interest? Or did they romance him just to see what would happen differently? Because that obviously wouldn't count.

[radishson]

Oransel wrote...

Because Bioware thought that the ammount of work, money and time to fix Thane's story was not worth it. Why they think so? Well, because they needed to lower tha size of the game and Thane and Jacob were the least popular demographic according to their research, so they cut them. Is that bad, unfair and plain wrong? Very. Does it make sense? Yes, unfortunately. Same situation happens in DLC. I bet Jacobmancers will see nothing new in it, well, maybe some angry dialogue, but that's it.

If they had to lower the size of the game, why did they add Traynor, Cortez, and Allers as LIs?  Surely adequate conclusions to the ongoing romances should have been more important than adding new content.  Oh... RIGHT!  Because Bioware/EA wanted to market ME3 to players that handn't even played the first two games, so they shafted the romances that required any ME2 build-up.  Funny how bad writing is connected to more bad writing, eh?

Thane and Jacob were the "least popular demographic" because only ~20% of players play Femshep in the first place.  Thane has always been reasonably popular given the circumstances, and there was vocal support for him right after ME2s release.

[d4eaming]

David7204 wrote...

Did they 'canonically' romance him? As in, romance him because they think he's the best love interest? Or did they romance him just to see what would happen differently? Because that obviously wouldn't count.

How does that not count? I've had characters romance multiple LIs before, and they still "count" as far as needing equal treatment with everything else. My "canon" DA2 romance is a male warrior with Fenris. Doesn't make my female mage with Anders any less deserving of equal time and quality (luckily the DA writers agreed there).

[David7204]

That means nothing. There's been vocal support for literally every squadmate and plenty of non-squadmates.

And calling Traynor and Cortez 'bad writing' is just stupid. They've been both very well accepted.

[radishson]

devSin wrote...

Trying to list every single author who wrote content for a character is not an effective use of time. :-)

You know what else is a waste of time?  Talking about Liara's writers in a thread that has nothing to do with her.  Seriously, I have no idea why you think what you've been posting is relevant to anything.

[radishson]

I didn't mean to imply Allers and Cortez were badly written, I meant the decision to make ME3 as accessible as possible and the myriad of negative consequences that had in-game.

[David7204]

Why don't you think about something for a moment.

If Cortez and Traynor were added to 'make the game more accessible,' why exactly were they a male homosexual romance and a female homosexual romance? Romances that wouldn't be accessible for straight male players, which is certainly the majority of their audience? You just claimed that only 20% of players play as a female Shepard. How many players are interested in gay romances?

Modifié par David7204, 01 mars 2013 - 09:34 .

[iamthedave3]

David7204 wrote...

Why don't you think about something for a moment.

If Cortez and Traynor were added to 'make the game more accessible,' why exactly were they a male homosexual romance and a female homosexual romance? Romances that wouldn't be accessible for straight male players, which is certainly the majority of their audience? You just claimed that only 20% of players play as a female Shepard. How many players are interested in gay romances?

Enough, clearly.

Though the criticisms about femshep romances are more that they tend to be pretty unfulfilling compared to male shep, and there's really no good reason for why that should be so.

[radishson]

7 hetero Broshep LI options STILL isn't enough for the straight male demographic? I'm not about to call fair treatment for gay males who play video games, but it still follows the trend of male-oriented material.

[Oransel]

radishson wrote...

If they had to lower the size of the game, why did they add Traynor, Cortez, and Allers as LIs?  Surely adequate conclusions to the ongoing romances should have been more important than adding new content.  Oh... RIGHT!  Because Bioware/EA wanted to market ME3 to players that handn't even played the first two games, so they shafted the romances that required any ME2 build-up.  Funny how bad writing is connected to more bad writing, eh?

Thane and Jacob were the "least popular demographic" because only ~20% of players play Femshep in the first place.  Thane has always been reasonably popular given the circumstances, and there was vocal support for him right after ME2s release.

Exactly. Not only that, but Bioware also needed good PR from LGBT/liberal community and that was deemed more important than two characters who were least seen as romanced as you correctly stated that FemShep is 20% of playerbase.
I know that creating ME3 was not an easy task, because you can only see max 50% of the whole game in each playthrough given all the choices, two genders of protagonist and the fact that every member of your ME2 can be dead (+ Virmire outcome). However it's not a good excuse for ME3 to suck so much, because if you have balls to attempt to create a game of such scale, you should be prepared to have balls to do that right, otherwise there is no point in it. Half right game is like half right kitten - bloody mess.

Modifié par Oransel, 01 mars 2013 - 10:17 .

[David7204]

You aren't very clever at all if you have to bold your own metaphors to make them stand out.

[Oransel]

David7204 wrote...

You aren't very clever at all if you have to bold your own metaphors to make them stand out.

Your trolling skills are infinitely worse than mine. Jog on, kid, pce

In short I do not need to reply to you in future.

Modifié par Oransel, 01 mars 2013 - 10:19 .

[David7204]

No, that's just logic.

[KBomb]

David7204 wrote...

It sure would be nice to see someone whining about Jacob that actually romanced Jacob.

I romanced him with one of my Sheps and I don't consider it whining when people complain about it. It was handled poorly from beginning to end. Also, you don't need to romance him to see the bad writing present. What a silly notion. You don't have to prepare the food to know the taste is bad.

Did they 'canonically' romance him? As in, romance him because they think he's the best love interest? Or did they romance him just to see what would happen differently? Because that obviously wouldn't count.

I romanced him because the shep I was rolling was very paragon. Very morally grounded and I thought Jacob's character fit well with her. That being said, I see no importance as to why it matters the reason they romanced him. That could be said for any character. I am certain some people only romanced Tali or Garrus just to see what happens. It doesn't make it any less important and it certainly shouldn't give a green light to butcher a character. If Jacob were so unpopular that they had to sweep him under a rug, there was a hundred different paths they could have taken and didn't. How anyone can defend that story path is beyond me.

Modifié par KBomb, 01 mars 2013 - 12:18 .

[crimzontearz]

Ok what I miss? Lots of pages appeared overnight so I am guessing something really good or really bad

And to the dev that posted here

Why does Bioware start from the assumption their fans will play the DLC as a footnote after thought right before Chronos station or that they would not start another playthrough later to get all the extra content? Because I am starting a whole new playthrough possibly Monday for this... WTH why are the casual players ALWAYS at the forefront of the development thought??

[cogsandcurls]

Mr.House wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

Is Thane worth romancing in ME2? I'm replaying the game and want to romance someone other than Garrus this time. Thane has a certain appeal to him but his ME3 fate makes me wonder.

I guess we'll see what kind of acknowledgement he gets in this DLC. Though anything is a step up from Garrus, Joker and EDI forgetting his existence post-Coup.

There's no point romancing Thane period anymore. I deleted my Thane ormance pt a year ago, it's done. You might as well stick with Garrus and remeber Thane as he was in ME2. A well written character.

I've just finished a Garrusmance ME2 run and I have to say I'm suprised how meaty ME2 Thane's romance content is compared to Garrus's. I would totally reccomend it. BUT I cannot reccommend taking a Thane romance into ME3. It's a whole lot of awkwardness and weird characterisation for no payoff. If you have the PC version, use the gibbed save editor to kill him off between games, it'll save you a lot of hassle and you can headcanon that people's reactions/Shep's mourning process has already happened by the time the game kicks in.

Alternatively you can kill him off in the SM, but since some of his nicest romance dialogue is ME2 epilogue stuff you'd be missing out, imo.

[Xellith]

Dusty Everman wrote...

Oooo, that does sound familiar.  I think we fixed that in a later DLC or patch, didn't we?

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience.  Choices you make two games earlier can change what you see in ME3.  What other game has done that?  It's a testing nightmare.  I tip my hat and bow deeply in gratitude to the QA teams of Mass Effect.

I understand that you did do an awful lot to ensure that each persons game actually made sense with characters appearing where they should and not appearing where they shouldnt.

But thats not what people really mean when they said that our choices didnt matter.  We mean that the big choices had limited impacts.  Kill the rachni queen in ME1 or not.  Doesnt matter. Here is your alternative rachni queen.  Rewrite the heretics or destroy them?  Doesnt matter.  Have a change in EMS score. 

Choices that were portreyed as "hard choices" meant absolubtely nothing.  ME3 diminishes the importance of previous choices because no matter what you do things are more or less the same.

We wanted things like the rachni queen to have MAJOR impacts where saving the queen gets you a mission and killing the queen can get you another mission on an entirely different world with the war possibly playing out differently in that arc.  The collector base in ME2. That was seen by many as an "oooo what do I do!!!" moment.  Yet that was never reflected in ME3 in ANY way.  Why wasnt there consequences one way or the other for choosing to preserve the base or destroy it?  Why didnt we get completely different outcomes in an arc in ME3?  We wanted all our major choices to play out like this rather than for every choice you make to just have a different "color" if you pardon the expression.

Dont get me wrong. We appreciate the work that was done (especially by the bug testers and coders) to make sure that our experiences made sense according to who we had alive and dead.. but ME3 really did relagate our large choices to mere cosmetic changes.

Modifié par Xellith, 01 mars 2013 - 12:46 .

[Solaxe]

Dusty Everman wrote...

When people say your choices don't  really matter in ME, it always kills me a little inside.  We spent so much time making the game work for everyones own experience.  Choices you make two games earlier can change what you see in ME3.  What other game has done that?  It's a testing nightmare.  I tip my hat and bow deeply in gratitude to the QA teams of Mass Effect.

You blow up 300k Batarians and after that nobody cares except maybe 2 people.