1904 réponses à ce sujet

[Cecilia L]

Hi everyone,
I'm a happily spoiled Garrusmancer and I truly feel for you guys. It would suck if Garrus or Liara would die friendzoned right in the beginning, except THAT would NEVER EVER HAPPEN because of the outcry it would cause. I'm really happy that didn't happen, but it's so unfair to you Sihas.

WARNING: FOLLOWING NUMBERS ARE A MERE SPECULATION:
After all doesn't about 50% (no source, just estimate from my impression) of the core fans(of both genders) play as Femshep? Out of that, maybe 25% are Liaramancers, 25% Garrusmancers and 25% Kaidanmancers. Thane has got to be the next runner up at about 15% of the Femshep fanbase (the remaining 10% Jacob, Kelly and others). The ending outrage polls and movements had about 70.000 participants, that I assume are core fans who really care about the series (and also buy the most DLC and merchandise). That makes for a total of at least 5000 heart-broken Thanemancers that used to be among the most passionate fans. (and that is endings aside)

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I just have to vent about how unfair this is and how bad I feel for those poor Mass Effect fans who did the mistake of romancing one of Mass Effect's most interesting and well-written characters.

The new Thane-writer seriously screwed up, and he even admitted it, so why can't they fix Thane's personality change? If they are going to force Thane's death on us, then why don't at least have him act like he cares if romanced? And I wouldn't find it cheap if they came up with a way of curing him permanently.

This rant is coming from someone who doesn't even have Thane on her top 10 ME-character list, but he bloody well deserved better than this!

PS. It's great that a dev actually have the balls to comment and hang out here on BSN, we kinda miss the fan-Bioware-dialogue (not blaming you at all, just growling about some poor public relations lately that are not your fault, seriously good to see you here)

Modifié par Cecilia L, 02 mars 2013 - 06:07 .

[Renmiri1]

Squeegee83 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Food for thought: skiesovergideon.tumblr.com/post/44326290914/regarding-the-lack-of-thane-in-the-citadel-dlc

I kinda find it funny that BioWare is using this to suggest we are somehow self-centered, and thoughtless. SaveThane began with people's experiences of being terminally ill, or have a love one who is or has died from a terminally ill disease. It was also based off other (non-terminal) medical problems as well. 

I sent a whole bunch of these sad stories to BioWare months ago, and there have been many Thanemancers who have blogged about their experiences since. I don't see BioWare tweeting any of those. <_<

I think its odd to try to throw back into our faces the one thing we have embraced from the start.

I don't think Bioware is involved in this, at least I hope not because it would be very low of them

[Renmiri1]

Eterna5 wrote...

 Food for thought: skiesovergideon.tumblr.com/post/44326290914/regarding-the-lack-of-thane-in-the-citadel-dlc

Food for more thought

http://sirena-mares....-in-the-citadel

[JECW]

Did they really do that?

[Renmiri1]

 Oi, that would be adding insult to injury 

From my previous link (Another disabled person responds to the original tumblr)

Honestly, I find it selfish and so easy for people to ask others to “stop complaining” when they themselves already got what they wanted. ] You got your plate. Others didn’t. You can project yourself in Thane. That’s good. Good for you. Others couldn’t. And that doesn’t make me or anyone else any less entitled to it than you.You got what you wanted. So why are you bothered about others who didn’t being upset that they didn’t?Others who are also disabled and sick, complaining about not getting their preferred alternative. People like me ...

these people have fought and protested for it for nearly a year. Months worth of effort and money (because the printed art, the banners, the cakes, and the letters weren’t going to print, bake and ship themselves for free). They held out their hope all this time since the game came out.And their hopes were just dashed out. Destroyed. It’s the last DLC.A week not even passed since they received the news that they didn’t get through to BioWare. The corpse of their hopes ain’t even cold yet.So of course they are going to cry and complain. Give them a break.

But of course some fans matter more than others and we should STFU and stop complaining
Thanemancers have to go to the back of the bus and like it. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 06:22 .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Call me a sap but the only games that brought tears to my eyes were kingdom hearts.

Mass Effect made me teary eyed a few times though.

[Nette]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Call me a sap but the only games that brought tears to my eyes were kingdom hearts.

Mass Effect made me teary eyed a few times though.

yes, the kingdom hearts games are wonderful

[radishson]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I thought Patrick W. and Chris P. both retweeted this on Twitter? No?

Just looked it up and yes, this is true.  It was also retweeted by Jessica Merizan.  And, uh... not sure if you guys heard about it but apparently a thane fan also tweeted/sent out/talked about bombing Bioware, or the devs or something, here's a link to a twitter convo Merizan had with a fan -- https://twitter.com/...389611276115968

Well... I guess we got the DLC sh!tstorm everyone was expecting, only four days early.

[RShara]

sigh
eyeroll
argh

Also she doesn't say it was a Thane fan, I don't particularly like the tone of, "If you think it was your crowd then it probably is." 

I'm sure she's understandably upset, but I'd prefer a "yes it was a Thane fan" or "no it was a < > fan"to the passive aggressive stuff.

Modifié par RShara, 02 mars 2013 - 07:22 .

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Food for thought: skiesovergideon.tumblr.com/post/44326290914/regarding-the-lack-of-thane-in-the-citadel-dlc

Food for more thought

http://sirena-mares....-in-the-citadel

The big problem with the "give us the option" argument is that when you give this sort of "option", it really isn't an option at all.

When you have two scenarios, one which is "good", and one which is "bad", there isn't REALLY a dilemma to be had here.  You would have to willingly "choose" to let Thane die, with the solution to his disease available.  You might as well killing him yourself.

That's not an "option", that's homicide.  Just like how a successful refuse isn't really an "option" to the ending.  It would clearly be the "right" choice, and all the others would be "wrong."

I'm sorry, but Thanemancers should NOT have that "option" imposed on everyone else.

Modifié par chemiclord, 02 mars 2013 - 07:25 .

[RShara]

chemiclord wrote...
The big problem with the "give us the option" argument is that when you give this sort of "option", it really isn't an option at all.

When you have two scenarios, one which is "good", and one which is "bad", there isn't REALLY a dilemma to be had here.  You would have to willingly "choose" to let Thane die, with the solution to his disease available.  You might as well killing him yourself.

That's not an "option", that's homicide.  Just like how a successful refuse isn't really an "option" to the ending.  It would clearly be the "right" choice, and all the others would be "wrong."

I'm sorry, but Thanemancers should NOT have that "option" imposed on everyone else.

What's the difference between refusing the option outside of the game, and refusing the option inside the game?

And it's not like it's going to be a dialogue wheel, "Kill Thane / Save Thane"

It should require loyalty in ME2, high paragon/renegade/influence points, possibly a certain amount of EMS.  Also certain conversational triggers, and maybe even playing LotSB.

Being good friends with Chakwas/saving Dr Michel could also play a factor.

It's no different than having a playthrough where you let Shepard lose people on the SM, and a playthrough where everyone survives.  The whole point here is replayability, right?

Modifié par RShara, 02 mars 2013 - 07:29 .

[d4eaming]

Goddamn why do they have to keep deliberately digging at their fans and basically taking a crap on them?

Ugh, I should just go back to DA where my love interest doesn't have to sodding die for "art" unless I want them to.

[radishson]

chemiclord wrote...

The big problem with the "give us the option" argument is that when you give this sort of "option", it really isn't an option at all.

When you have two scenarios, one which is "good", and one which is "bad", there isn't REALLY a dilemma to be had here.  You would have to willingly "choose" to let Thane die, with the solution to his disease available.  You might as well killing him yourself.

That's not an "option", that's homicide.  Just like how a successful refuse isn't really an "option" to the ending.  It would clearly be the "right" choice, and all the others would be "wrong."

I'm sorry, but Thanemancers should NOT have that "option" imposed on everyone else.

There are several characters whose deaths you quite directly have control over.  Are you against the choices surrounding shooting Mordin in the back?  That's homicide, but its still an option.  What about the geth/quarian conflict?  Literally millions of lives, synthetic or organic, are in your hands.  Or the genophage, which stillbirths 9999/1000 krogan children?  If you can't drive yourself to contemplate decisions past elementary black/white polarization, I'm not sure what you enjoy about ME games.

[chemiclord]

radishson wrote...

There are several characters whose deaths you quite directly have control over.  Are you against the choices surrounding shooting Mordin in the back?  That's homicide, but its still an option.  What about the geth/quarian conflict?  Literally millions of lives, synthetic or organic, are in your hands.  Or the genophage, which stillbirths 9999/1000 krogan children?  If you can't drive yourself to contemplate decisions past elementary black/white polarization, I'm not sure what you enjoy about ME games.

And ya know what?  There IS a "perfect" solution to the Geth/Quarian conflict, and it cheapens the whole conflict as a result.  300 years of anomosity... solved in 3 hours?  *gag*  Doesn't work that way.  EVER.  I do not believe that peace should have been possible... at least, not in the time frame given.  Shepard should have had to choose which side was less wrong rather than press some magic button and make peace.

And the Genophage isn't quite so simple.  Sure, you can cure the genophage and "only" cost Mordin in the process... but have you REALLY done what is better for the galaxy as a whole?  Or did you merely set the stage for the Second Krogan Rebellions?  The entire Tuchanka arc is a risk/reward assesment, do you believe that the future can be different, or do you believe that history repeats itself?  Neither option is inherently better or worse than the other.  THAT is true choice.

Sorry.  Thane should have died, and he did.

You don't REALLY want choice.  You don't REALLY want an option.  You want Thane to live.  That in and of itself isn't wrong.  But at least be honest about it.

Modifié par chemiclord, 02 mars 2013 - 07:50 .

[Renmiri1]

chemiclord wrote...

radishson wrote...

There are several characters whose deaths you quite directly have control over.  Are you against the choices surrounding shooting Mordin in the back?  That's homicide, but its still an option.  What about the geth/quarian conflict?  Literally millions of lives, synthetic or organic, are in your hands.  Or the genophage, which stillbirths 9999/1000 krogan children?  If you can't drive yourself to contemplate decisions past elementary black/white polarization, I'm not sure what you enjoy about ME games.

And ya know what?  There IS a "perfect" solution to the Geth/Quarian conflict, and it cheapens the whole conflict as a result.  300 years of anomosity... solved in 3 hours?  *gag*  Doesn't work that way.  EVER.  I do not believe that peace should have been possible... at least, not in the time frame given.  Shepard should have had to choose which side was less wrong rather than press some magic button and make peace.

And the Genophage isn't quite so simple.  Sure, you can cure the genophage and "only" cost Mordin in the process... but have you REALLY done what is better for the galaxy as a whole?  Or did you merely set the stage for the Second Krogan Rebellions?  The entire Tuchanka arc is a risk/reward assesment, do you believe that the future can be different, or do you believe that history repeats itself?  Neither option is inherently better or worse than the other.  THAT is true choice.

Sorry.  Thane should have died, and he did.

You don't REALLY want choice.  You don't REALLY want an option.  You want a magic button that makes everything better... and frankly, you shouldn't get one.

Hmmm... So you see bad writing all over but you don't see it when it is realting to Thane ?

I don't really see why I should care about what you think since you seem to not give a f**k about what I think.

[Cecilia L]

radishson wrote...

Squeegee83 wrote...

I thought Patrick W. and Chris P. both retweeted this on Twitter? No?

Just looked it up and yes, this is true.  It was also retweeted by Jessica Merizan.  And, uh... not sure if you guys heard about it but apparently a thane fan also tweeted/sent out/talked about bombing Bioware, or the devs or something, here's a link to a twitter convo Merizan had with a fan -- https://twitter.com/...389611276115968

Well... I guess we got the DLC sh!tstorm everyone was expecting, only four days early.

Wow. That's not ok. She shouldn't take it personally, though, I'm sure every company gets that.

[JECW]

radishson wrote...

Squeegee83 wrote...

I thought Patrick W. and Chris P. both retweeted this on Twitter? No?

Just looked it up and yes, this is true.  It was also retweeted by Jessica Merizan.  And, uh... not sure if you guys heard about it but apparently a thane fan also tweeted/sent out/talked about bombing Bioware, or the devs or something, here's a link to a twitter convo Merizan had with a fan -- https://twitter.com/...389611276115968

Well... I guess we got the DLC sh!tstorm everyone was expecting, only four days early.

No it was not a Thane fan.
 She has no idea who it was.

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Hmmm... So you see bad writing all over but you don't see it when it is realting to Thane ?

I don't really see why I should care about what you think since you seem to not give a f**k about what I think.

I dunno.  Depends on what part of the writing you consider "bad."

If you think he was horribly characterized, I'd agree.  I think it's definitely horrible writing  that ME2 builds up his "hope to live" then reverts him abruptly back to resignation of the inevitable with seemingly no explanation whatsoever in ME3.  I think it's putrid writing that once he DOES pass away, it's like he never existed, especially to the person who supposedly loved him.

But do I think it's bad writing that a terminally ill character came to terms with his mortality and put everything he had in one last fight and that the story didn't give you the option to save him from that fate?  No... though the execution of that scene left much to be desired.

Modifié par chemiclord, 02 mars 2013 - 07:55 .

[radishson]

Cecilia L wrote...

Wow. That's not ok. She shouldn't take it personally, though, I'm sure every company gets that.

Well... yeah, but you can't really blame her.  It should not have been said, either way.

sigh... this is all just a baaad, bad issue.  Some people have been dwelling on this anger
for an entire year, so theres a sort of cathartic purge going on now
that they've realized this is the end, I guess.  Plus there's the whole terminal
illness aspect that makes this extremely personal for some people.

[Renmiri1]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 Food for thought: skiesovergideon.tumblr.com/post/44326290914/regarding-the-lack-of-thane-in-the-citadel-dlc

Food for more thought

http://sirena-mares....-in-the-citadel

You know, I spent the past 2 hours reading "skies" blog. She livebloged her first ME3 playthrough. 
http://skiesovergide...st-destroyed-me

SUN15APR2012 5:25 PM

well thane’s death just destroyed me

POSTED 10 MONTHS AGO 8 NOTES REG LIVEBLOGS MASS EFFECT 3, ME3, MASS EFFECT 3.

And, like us, she was pi$$ed off about the way Shep isn't allowed to grieve
http://skiesovergide...t-to-buy-fish-w

thane died and shep went to buy fish ;;w;;
I’m pretty sure I know how this is going to end now. At least I have time to process and deal with that. I’ll probably still be a train wreck at the end of the game, but maybe less of one.

POSTED 10 MONTHS AGO 6 NOTES REG LIVEBLOGS MASS EFFECT 3, ME3, MASS EFFECT 3.

There are more quotes like that, on the pages surrounding it. Like us she complains about the entire Normandy trying to jump on Sheppards pants, about Kaidan scolding Shepard for cheating...

Interestingly enough, dissing Kaidan earned her some angry fanmail and guess what ? She says she has the right to her opinion. Yup, we all do
http://skiesovergide...-is-getting-old

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 08:05 .

[JECW]

radishson wrote...

Cecilia L wrote...

Wow. That's not ok. She shouldn't take it personally, though, I'm sure every company gets that.

Well... yeah, but you can't really blame her.  It should not have been said, either way.

sigh... this is all just a baaad, bad issue.  Some people have been dwelling on this anger
for an entire year, so theres a sort of cathartic purge going on now
that they've realized this is the end, I guess.  Plus there's the whole terminal
illness aspect that makes this extremely personal for some people.

Why do you keep saying it was someone from this group when it wasn't.

Modifié par JECW, 02 mars 2013 - 08:04 .

[Renmiri1]

JECW wrote...

radishson wrote...

Cecilia L wrote...

Wow. That's not ok. She shouldn't take it personally, though, I'm sure every company gets that.

Well... yeah, but you can't really blame her.  It should not have been said, either way.

sigh... this is all just a baaad, bad issue.  Some people have been dwelling on this anger
for an entire year, so theres a sort of cathartic purge going on now
that they've realized this is the end, I guess.  Plus there's the whole terminal
illness aspect that makes this extremely personal for some people.

Why do you keep saying it was someone from this group when it wasn't.

Sadly it appears it was

mnomaha @JessicaMerizan Oh, no, got an admission and dealt with it. I hope. We may hate what you have done (or not done really) but that's not cool

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 08:10 .