1904 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Let's see...people fabricating affronts due to their grievous disappointment, callous dismissiveness towards queer inclusion, a generally disproportionate portent attached to the discussion pertaining a fictional character...

I think I just won the BSN bingo.

oh look another pseudo intellectual.

Whether or not their reaction conforms with your enlightened standard of appropriateness the truth is that as per admission of one of the devs, this section of the fanbase was actually forgotten and this DLC does not seem to remedy the problem

[David7204]

Mass Effect is not sexist, and it certainly is not homophobic.

[spirosz]

radishson wrote...

jtav wrote...
I love her too. And I wouldn't want her reduced either. I'm just wondering what the best way to deal with the obvious sexism is when they clearly over extended themselves?

There is no right answer for this.  No ones LI deserved to be reduced.  Why is it my problem just because Bioware couldnt anticipate the effort needed to finish off each romance adequately?

Acting as if Bioware has unlimited resources and unlimited time to make each character have meaningful development, LI or not.  

Bioware even stated they dropped the ball with Thane.

Modifié par spirosz, 02 mars 2013 - 09:56 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

radishson wrote...
There is no right answer for this.  No ones LI deserved to be reduced.  Why is it my problem just because Bioware couldnt anticipate the effort needed to finish off each romance adequately?

So maybe they'll learn from this and overreach less in future games.  Dragon Age IMO has done an excellent job of providing good quality romances and gender parity.  

[spirosz]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

radishson wrote...
There is no right answer for this.  No ones LI deserved to be reduced.  Why is it my problem just because Bioware couldnt anticipate the effort needed to finish off each romance adequately?

So maybe they'll learn from this and overreach less in future games.  Dragon Age IMO has done an excellent job of providing good quality romances and gender parity.  

Well, it helps that Dragon II didn't continue romances from the previous game and added their own seperate from the first.  That's the thing, Thane works well ME2 alone and this can be said for each ME2 romance, IMO.  Where as the continuation of current romances and the sheer amount... unrealistic expectations from fans.  

Modifié par spirosz, 02 mars 2013 - 10:01 .

[jtav]

Indeed DA has, but DA always struck me as more feminist anyway.

The problem isn't so much Thane per se, but the pattern that it's always female-specific content that's shafted. Let's take Miranda, Thane's fellow poster character. She got what many Thane fans say they want: she can be saved if you jump through hoops. The story "wants" her to die (ie the Miranda plot gets more closure and emotional resonance if she dies) but a mandatory death for her would be unthinkable. I think Thane should have died and Miranda's content should be rewritten, but the privileging of the male player has got to stop.

[Sable Rhapsody]

spirosz wrote...
Well, it helps that Dragon II didn't continue romances from the previous game and added their own seperate from the first.  That's the thing, Thane works well ME2 alone and this can be said for each ME2 romance, IMO.  Where as the continuation of current romances and the sheer amount... unrealistic expectations from fans.  

And BioWare fed those unrealistic expectations with their early promises of a decent conclusion to all of the story arcs, regardless of whether the NPCs were squaddies or not.  IMO it might have been better to just fess up and say they went for too much, but hindsight is 20/20 

[radishson]

spirosz wrote...

Acting as if Bioware has unlimited resources and unlimited time to make each character have meaningful development, LI or not.  

Bioware even stated they dropped the ball with Thane.

Dude, I know that.  So the appropriate solution was for Bioware to completely forgoe any proper conclusion of pre-developed Femshep romantic arcs??  That is not an equal exchange.  And this "inadequate resources" argument does not account for the totally useless LIs that were added in ME3.  If they put the development time of Kelly and Diana's romances into Jacob and Thane, there would be no problem.

[David7204]

That is a moronic definition of 'totally useless.' I would bet that more players romanced Kelly than Jacob.

Do you really not see any hypocrisy at all in demanding equal treatment for characters and love interests and then proclaiming other people's love interests as 'totally useless'?

Modifié par David7204, 02 mars 2013 - 10:16 .

[Renmiri1]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Let's see...people fabricating affronts due to their grievous disappointment..

Indeed.. Fabricating.. Oh wait

Masha Potato wrote...

Oh my god why won't anyone think of poor hetero females

Merchant2006 wrote...

No pls not my thane husbando!!1!1

And the top fabrication.. we are so skilled we got a Bioware PR rep to say it
https://twitter.com/...536281015402497

If only it was fabrication...

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 10:16 .

[Masha Potato]

What, i'm as much disappointed in Thane content as the next guy, but you know, your woes about hetero females being discriminated against through cutting Thane romance in favor of some homosexual romance are just ridiculous

Modifié par Masha Potato, 02 mars 2013 - 10:20 .

[radishson]

Masha Potato wrote...

What, i'm as much disappointed in Thane content as the next guy, but you know, your woes about hetero females being discriminated against through cutting Thane romance in favor of some homosexual romance are just ridiculous

Yes.  The existence of sexism completely nullifies the existence of bi and leabian gamers.  Also, sexism is only experienced by het.females and has no impact on the female gaming population as a whole.

[New Display Name]

This is why it's best to go with the "all bisexual" half male/half female love interest party composition. You might get arguments over "realism" (which is a tad ridiculous considering Bioware games are either fantasy or science fiction), but at least everyone has an equal choice of (binary) gender combinations.

[Renmiri1]

One thing I have NEVER seen in the Thane romancer threads was the idea that other people were less deserving of romance than we are. But I've seen the opposite voiced quite often here in a Thanemancers thread. I can't even guess how many more insults, jokes and rants are against our right to equal content are elsewhere.

[Masha Potato]

radishson wrote...

Masha Potato wrote...

What, i'm as much disappointed in Thane content as the next guy, but you know, your woes about hetero females being discriminated against through cutting Thane romance in favor of some homosexual romance are just ridiculous

Yes.  The existence of sexism completely nullifies the existence of bi and leabian gamers.  Also, sexism is only experienced by het.females and has no impact on the female gaming population as a whole.

Yeah, so let's blame each other for trying to steal the spotlight, that's a sound friendly strategy

[Renmiri1]

[quote]Masha Potato wrote...

What, i'm as much disappointed in Thane content as the next guy, but you know, your woes about hetero females being discriminated against through cutting Thane romance in favor of some homosexual romance are just ridiculous[/quote]

Post a link to this please.


[quote][quote]Masha Potato wrote...

What, i'm as much disappointed in Thane content as the next guy, but you know, your woes about hetero females being discriminated against through cutting Thane romance in favor of some homosexual romance are just ridiculous[/quote]
[quote]
Yes.  The existence of sexism completely nullifies the existence of bi and leabian gamers.  Also, sexism is only experienced by het.females and has no impact on the female gaming population as a whole.[/quote]

Yeah, so let's blame each other for trying to steal the spotlight, that's a sound friendly strategy
[/quote][/quote]

To this too. Except your own post above blaming Thane mancers for wanting to exclude homosexual romance. I have a link to that post already.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 10:38 .

[David7204]

"Right to equal content"?

You don't have a 'right' to a damn thing.

[Renmiri1]

David7204 wrote...

"Right to equal content"?

You don't have a 'right' to a damn thing.

Really ? Why is that ?

[David7204]

Why would you have a 'right' for developers to produce content that pleases you?

[radishson]

HJF4 wrote...

This is why it's best to go with the "all bisexual" half male/half female love interest party composition. You might get arguments over "realism" (which is a tad ridiculous considering Bioware games are either fantasy or science fiction), but at least everyone has an equal choice of (binary) gender combinations.

I have always supported this in gaming.  Hopefully more companies jump on the idea.

[radishson]

Masha Potato wrote...

radishson wrote...

Masha Potato wrote...

What, i'm as much disappointed in Thane content as the next guy, but you know, your woes about hetero females being discriminated against through cutting Thane romance in favor of some homosexual romance are just ridiculous

Yes.  The existence of sexism completely nullifies the existence of bi and leabian gamers.  Also, sexism is only experienced by het.females and has no impact on the female gaming population as a whole.

Yeah, so let's blame each other for trying to steal the spotlight, that's a sound friendly strategy

Uhh how am I blaming other fans?  I'm blaming Bioware for the innacurate distribution of resources.  **** off if you honestly expect me to agree that the fairest solution to the problem was to shift production cuts entirely on to Femshep LI content.

[Renmiri1]

David7204 wrote...

Why would you have a 'right' for developers to produce content that pleases you?

Because I'm a customer ? A gamer ?

Are you telling me YOU have no damn right to a damn thing from Bioware ? Or are you telling me you and I are not equally gamers ?

PS: I do appreciate your honesty. Most people beat around the bush and deny they think they somehow are better than Thanemancers and deserve more. Probably because of the "your own damn fault you picked a broken LI" right ? Please keep on with the honesty and tell me why, I'm really intersted in seeing how you rationalize this attitude.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 10:52 .

[RedBeardJim]

jtav wrote...

Serious question: would it have been better to reduce Jack and Miranda's content correspondingly? I play MShep most often and it feels like they tried to do too much, while Kaidan and Garrus at least feel fleshed out.

No, I think it would have been better to raise Jacob and Thane's content up to the level of Jack and Miranda. Kaidan and Garrus are fleshed out, yes -- about as much as Ashley and Tali, who they are actually the equivalent counterparts to.

Edit: Maybe they could have saved some resources by cutting down on some of the time and effort spent on Conrad freaking Verner.

Modifié par RedBeardJim, 02 mars 2013 - 10:52 .

[David7204]

Of course I don't. If I don't like what they do, I'm perfectly free to ignore them and not purchase their content.

[RedBeardJim]

David7204 wrote...

Of course I don't. If I don't like what they do, I'm perfectly free to ignore them and not purchase their content.

That's one valid option, yes. Another is to communicate your displeasure to them and ask them to do better.