1904 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

David7204 wrote...

Of course I don't. If I don't like what they do, I'm perfectly free to ignore them and not purchase their content.

So your objection is about me voicing my disappointment and complaining.

You are not in US are you ? Consumer rights here are really valued. We here think that customers have the right to expect good products from manufactureres and to complain wehn we feel cheated. And a lot of times the law agrees with us, One example is "bait and switch" : Present a product as something and then the product is nowhere near as it was described. Another is discrimination. Making products just for white people, just for males, etc.. on a product that it is not specifically tailored for a particular audience is considered bad here.

And I bought ME3 in US so I am using the rights every customer of products sold in United States has. If Bioware disagrees they should stop selling to US customers. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 11:01 .

[David7204]

Of course not. I have no idea where you got that from. I have no problem with you voicing your disappointment and complaints. The problem is you declaring you have a 'right' to content. You don't.

Also, I fully agree that the romance content for Thane was unsatisfying, and I sympathize. However, I'm not willing to make or accept garbage arguments just because they support something I support. Because that's hypocrisy, isn't it? That's Fox News tactics. Some of the worst arguments I've seen here on the BSN are in favor of ideas I completely agree with.

I am from the US. And I can tell you with certainty that storytellers are 100% free to tell discriminating stories. Telling a story with sexist or racial implications is absolutely legal.

Modifié par David7204, 02 mars 2013 - 11:06 .

[radishson]

Why do you feel the Thanemance content was unsatisfying?

[Renmiri1]

I'm not buying a story. I am buying an interactive game that was made to include people like me in ME2 and then to exclude people like me in ME3. It is sexist, it is bait and switch and I do have every right to voice my displeasure with it.

And yes I do have every right to expect equal treatment. It is a big part of being American to believe in equal rights. I'm surprised I even have to tell you that.

PS: And like Fox News, some people here think only "real americans" can expect to have rights. Only on BSN it is hetero male gamers that get to be the only "real gamers" Shame on you for saying that I don't have any right. You are as bad as Fox News.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 11:13 .

[David7204]

Do you know what a 'right' is?

[Taboo]

Renmiri1 wrote...

I'm not buying a story. I am buying an interactive game that was made to include people like me in ME2 and then to exclude people like me in ME3. It is sexist, it is bait and switch and I do have every right to voice my displeasure with it.

And yes I do have every right to expect equal treatment. It is a big part of being American to believe in equal rights. I'm surprised I even have to tell you that.

PS: And like Fox News, some people here think only "real americans" can expect to have rights. Shame on you for saying that I don't have any right. You are as bad as them.

Equal rights in America? LOL.

Only if you're wealthy.

If you're a minority, a part of the LGBT community or non-religious you're going to have a bad time.

[Renmiri1]

David7204 wrote...

Do you know what a 'right' is?

You obviously don't and I'm done talking to you. I can understand people from other places being surprised that customers have rights. An American ? Go back to Fox News and f**k off.

[Renmiri1]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

I'm not buying a story. I am buying an interactive game that was made to include people like me in ME2 and then to exclude people like me in ME3. It is sexist, it is bait and switch and I do have every right to voice my displeasure with it.

And yes I do have every right to expect equal treatment. It is a big part of being American to believe in equal rights. I'm surprised I even have to tell you that.

PS: And like Fox News, some people here think only "real americans" can expect to have rights. Shame on you for saying that I don't have any right. You are as bad as them.

Equal rights in America? LOL.

Only if you're wealthy.

If you're a minority, a part of the LGBT community or non-religious you're going to have a bad time.

Agreed, but don't tell me to my face that this is correct and fair and I should not have any right (which the poster did "no right to a damn thing" were his words),

Bigots get away with what they do because good people stand down and pretend they are not seeing bigotry. 

Tell me this isn't bigotry

David7204 wrote...

"Right to equal content"?

You don't have a 'right' to a damn thing.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 mars 2013 - 11:20 .

[WazzuMan]

Oh my god, Bioware didn't make a game tailored to my every expectation, my rights have been violated. Sorry, Bioware, apparently you have no rights to tell your own story because this consumer in the US won't like it.

[Taboo]

A right is an ingerent ability. You can say what you want about Obama because free speech is a right. You can buy and eat tootsie rolls because that is a right.

When you purchase and a product and don't like it because of "X" you have the right to complain about it. But past that it's out of your hands.

It sucks but that's the way it is.

[WazzuMan]

They have the right to run their mouths unfortunately but there is no point any more. Bioware has already acknowledged the complaints but after this DLC they are done with Mass Effect 3. There is nothing more to say, it's set in stone. Apparently romancing a dead man walking leads to heartbreak.

[RShara]

can we get back to the subject here? I mean, okay yes we don't have a "right" to demand anything from Bioware, but is that what we really should be carping on? Don't feed the trolls.

I think the most we'll get is a voiced letter or holo from Thane. Which is nice I suppose, but woefully inadequate at this point in time. I really wish they would be honest and forthright about this instead of being coy and vague.

[David7204]

I'm a 'troll' for addressing a legitimate issue with an argument presented in this thread?

Modifié par David7204, 02 mars 2013 - 11:59 .

[Renmiri1]

WazzuMan wrote...

Oh my god, Bioware didn't make a game tailored to my every expectation, my rights have been violated. Sorry, Bioware, apparently you have no rights to tell your own story because this consumer in the US won't like it.

You know, thanks to David and you I am finally realizing WHY mere pixels in a silly game got me so angry. I finally see why the sexism, the cost cutting, the Bioware and BSN insults matter so much to me.

Let's start with the premise:

David7204 wrote...

"Right to equal content"?

You don't have a 'right' to a damn thing.

So I asked why  and got

Why would you have a 'right' for developers to produce content that pleases you?

Which was very surprising to me. I also wanted to know if the poster thought he had the same "non-rights" as I did, as many in this thread seem to think

ewhalen wrote...

As countless others have said before: you chose to romance a character whose earliest lines included "I am dying." Keep that in mind.

And THAT really gets my goat. I deserve all the misery because I chose badly. EVERYONE knows Thane as LI is a sucker's choice. Is like picking "Refuse" at the end. You can do it, but don't complain later when the universe blows up in your face. That is a fact, undeniable and everyone knows.

But a lot of BSN posters (Not all thanks heaven!) see this as an excuse to treat Thane fans worse than garbage. In fact, to them it is working as intended. A small sector of the fan base should be dumped on, continually and they have absolutely "no right to a damn thing". Not even the right to voice their opinon. It's "manufactured outrage" we have absolutely no rights and should be damn proud of it.

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

 I'm going to repost this because I feel this is an important point

I really wish people would realize, taking away the Thane issues, is that BW has introduced and encourage unequal treatment of fanbases. And it's a bad precedent.

-Femshep has two hetero LIs taken away without anything to replace them. BroShep keeps his.
-Protests by fans of LIs that were taken away are belittled and ignored. Fans of broShep's LIs that didn't get what they want are praised and encouraged.
-Fans of taken femShep LIs won't get any content compared to what broShep LI's get.

This is the true issue. People should be scared that this unequal treatment could happen to a character they like. THis isn't about Thane dying or Jacob being a cheater, it's about femShep being left in the lurch.

It's so obvious, there are only 2 real male romances in ME3.  And even though BW did the unbelievable (made romance fan-service DLC) it looks like Thane and Jacob won't get much added to them even though they were shafted the most. 

Never would have seen this coming after playing ME2,

Never would have seen this coming after playing ME2,

Neither would I. Yet I deserve every scorn for picking the Rickroll LI who was so obviously marled "broken". And I should shut up about it. And stop making up the cruel bigoted BSN posters who come here to post cruel stuff. 

Well, you know I had a choice about dealing with death and drama once. And I said yes and will never regret it no matter what the outcome.

My son had a congenital heart defect. Me and hubby opted to have my son, being fully aware we could be chosing pain and suffering for us  and for the baby. Hope was slim.

My son is 100% cured, his heart has been normal since he was 3 years old and he is a healthy boy who loves to play videogames with mom.

It could be considered easy to say I don't regret it, now that the slim hope paid off. But no, even if things were as dire as all of us feared at the time, I will never regret taking the chance. Knowing my little boy is and would have always been the best thing in my life.

 I couldn't just go "this one is broken, let's get the next one" with my son. I chose pain, fully willing to endure it. I did the same thing on a videogame. But instead of a well written tragic journey I get a badly done cost cutting job

I have the right to complain. I have the right to be treated equally. And not one of the jerks here on BSN will convince me otherwise.

PS: And to all of you idiots that say Thanemancers just can't deal with death and sadness a big F**K YOU. Most Thanemancers felt drawn to Thane BECAUSE we have been through it before and don't regret - will never regret - knowing the person who was deadly ill.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 03 mars 2013 - 12:14 .

[earendil87]

 @David7204 We've said this like a million times and I think I've heard you agree with us: the problem with Thane is not his death, it's the poor writing that changed completely his story from ME2, that he was literally forgotten (said by the writers). That is not professional, that is not a well done job and as costumers we have the right to demand it to be fixed.

Yes, it's true that we don't have the right to demand exactly how it should be done. It's their story and they can do whatever they want as long as it's well done, it makes sense and is coherent with the story. It's what happened with the ending: it was rushed and incomplete, people complained about it and they fixed it however they wanted. Some people still don't like it but it's fixed now and it's their story, they have the right not to change it anymore.

Modifié par earendil87, 03 mars 2013 - 12:34 .

[crimzontearz]

people seriously need to separate "people's desires and expectations" from "objectively underwhelming content delivered when compared to other options"

because yes some people are passionate to a fault and maybe reacting proportionally to that passion but the truth is a dev flat out said "they forgot" about Thane

[ewhalen]

Renmiri1 wrote...

ewhalen wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Everyone knows Thane's LI story was butchered and Thane mancers treated as garbage. They may pretend ME3 Thane made sense but everyone knows the truth. We Thane mancers have MOTIVE to be spitting mad at Bioware. 

No, not everyone believes that. Don't generalize.

If you choose to reject his story arc, claim you were treated like "garbage", and claim to have "motive" for anger, then that's your problem, but don't drag the rest of us into it.

As countless others have said before: you chose to romance a character whose earliest lines included "I am dying." Keep that in mind.

You missed my point entirely.

*snip*

My point is not that Thane is an invalid romance. In fact, it's an excellent one IMO. My point is that if you romance a man known to have little time left (which is fine), it is silly to then demand that he be written to live longer or even not die at all so that there is more romance content.

[spirosz]

ewhalen wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

ewhalen wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Everyone knows Thane's LI story was butchered and Thane mancers treated as garbage. They may pretend ME3 Thane made sense but everyone knows the truth. We Thane mancers have MOTIVE to be spitting mad at Bioware. 

No, not everyone believes that. Don't generalize.

If you choose to reject his story arc, claim you were treated like "garbage", and claim to have "motive" for anger, then that's your problem, but don't drag the rest of us into it.

As countless others have said before: you chose to romance a character whose earliest lines included "I am dying." Keep that in mind.

You missed my point entirely.

*snip*

My point is not that Thane is an invalid romance. In fact, it's an excellent one IMO. My point is that if you romance a man known to have little time left (which is fine), it is silly to then demand that he be written to live longer or even not die at all so that there is more romance content.

Or for the reason that they want it for the sake of it.  

[RShara]

It's not silly when we had a lot of hints and teasing about being able to prolong his life at least through the end of the game.

[spirosz]

RShara wrote...

It's not silly when we had a lot of hints and teasing about being able to prolong his life at least through the end of the game.

And because the "hints and teasing" didn't become more than "hints and teasing" we should do what exactly?

[lyssalu]

Eterna5 wrote...

 Food for thought: skiesovergideon.tumblr.com/post/44326290914/regarding-the-lack-of-thane-in-the-citadel-dlc

everyone dies bro

thane didn't die of his illness

bioware did not think that it would be a good enough death for him to die of his illness, so SPACE NINJA happened

and yeah, that's pretty ****ing offensive, because there's no shame in dying of a terminal illness and a good portion of us are probably gonna die that way

that wasn't food for thought -- that was obvious and more than a little self centered as well as completely ****ing ablist and she's essentially implying that my ****ing aunt isn't going to die a good death because she's fighting it out in a ****ing hospital bed right now

so yeah, what a ****ing ****ty thing for bioware devs to personally ****ing endorse even though their treatment of thane's character demonstrated that they felt that way regardless 

Modifié par lyssalu, 03 mars 2013 - 02:21 .

[ewhalen]

lyssalu wrote...

thane didn't die of his illness

Actually, the doctor implied that it was more his disease than his wound that dealt him the final blow.

[lyssalu]

ewhalen wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

thane didn't die of his illness

Actually, the doctor implied that it was more his disease than his wound that dealt him the final blow.

it was ultimately the wound that killed him, though, dude

had that not have happened he wouldn't have died that moment

they wanted him to die "honorably" because dying of a ****ing disease somehow isn't

[Renmiri1]

ewhalen wrote...

My point is not that Thane is an invalid romance. In fact, it's an excellent one IMO. My point is that if you romance a man known to have little time left (which is fine), it is silly to then demand that he be written to live longer or even not die at all so that there is more romance content.

/ facepalm

I love it how you try to teach me how to live while ignoring pretty much anything I say

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

 I'm going to repost this because I feel this is an important point

I really wish people would realize, taking away the Thane issues, is that BW has introduced and encourage unequal treatment of fanbases. And it's a bad precedent.

-Femshep has two hetero LIs taken away without anything to replace them. BroShep keeps his.
-Protests by fans of LIs that were taken away are belittled and ignored. Fans of broShep's LIs that didn't get what they want are praised and encouraged.
-Fans of taken femShep LIs won't get any content compared to what broShep LI's get.

This is the true issue. People should be scared that this unequal treatment could happen to a character they like.THis isn't about Thane dying or Jacob being a cheater, it's about femShep being left in the lurch.

It's so obvious, there are only 2 real male romances in ME3.  And even though BW did the unbelievable (made romance fan-service DLC) it looks like Thane and Jacob won't get much added to them even though they were shafted the most. 

And about that choice:

Renmiri1 wrote...

Well, you know I had a choice about dealing with death and drama once. And I said yes and will never regret it no matter what the outcome.

My son had a congenital heart defect. Me and hubby opted to have my son, being fully aware we could be chosing pain and suffering for us  and for the baby. Hope was slim.

My son is 100% cured, his heart has been normal since he was 3 years old and he is a healthy boy who loves to play videogames with mom.

It could be considered easy to say I don't regret it, now that the slim hope paid off. But no, even if things were as dire as all of us feared at the time, I will never regret taking the chance. Knowing my little boy is and would have always been the best thing in my life.

 I couldn't just go "this one is broken, let's get the next one" with my son. I chose pain, fully willing to endure it. I did the same thing on a videogame. But instead of a well written tragic journey I get a badly done cost cutting job

I have the right to complain. I have the right to be treated equally. And not one of the jerks here on BSN will convince me otherwise.

PS: And to all of you idiots that say Thanemancers just can't deal with death and sadness a big F**K YOU. Most Thanemancers felt drawn to Thane BECAUSE we have been through it before and don't regret - will never regret - knowing the person who was deadly ill. 

So to you, a big humongos salted F U

You have no idea about what are my experirndes and desires, you aren't interested to learn, all you want is for me to stop making noise about your game. FU is my game too 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 03 mars 2013 - 02:31 .