1904 réponses à ce sujet

[john-in-france]

First of all, my apologies for being away from the thread that I started for so long, those of you that have read the thread know that I had to visit London due to personal issues. Sadly that all went pear shaped so I didn't check in, as I said I would.

I play videogames for the fun, and Bioware should be proud that they made characters that the fanbase care about.

That said, I feel very disappointed about Thane in the Citadel DLC.

The memorial was appropriate if Thane had to die, though some of the wording was problematic...I also found that the same words were said by crewmates whether you were friends or lovers with Thane. I know that my own friends would react differently in these scenarios, but at least there was some acknowledgement I suppose.

I was most upset by the videos. Two say Siha, and the other two were obviously generic Shepard friend videos. However they were very fuzzy and the definition was poor. We are talking about a world that has holo images...why do we get a flatscreen, bad film look?

The farewell scene with the ghost/thoughtform, well I think that might have been better implemented as happening when others get their LI romance cabin visit before the end.

I can not say that I think we were treated well by Bioware.

Please respect others LIs, you may have enjoyed the Citadel DLC romance parts, and if so I am very happy for you, but others may have not and they also have the right to say why they feel disappointed. (Garrus and the Tango was a classic ).

[Zazzerka]

I just need to go on the record and say that Hale's speech during romanced Thane's memorial choked me the hell up.

She deserves an award for that performance.

[john-in-france]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

I just need to go on the record and say that Hale's speech during romanced Thane's memorial choked me the hell up.

She deserves an award for that performance.

Very true,Romanced Femsheps speech had me in tears. Very well done on the acting front.

[Stilographium]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

The fans are still frustrated with the ending, not only Thane, and they refuse to fix anything. It's like adding salt to the wounds. They are too prideful to change anything for some reasons, but it is what it is, I suppose. ME team needs to learn to communicate with the fans more. If they can't change the ending or Thane's fate, then at least explain why. The lack of response from them can be pretty frustrating.

So much this. At this point, I'd feel a bit better if they simply could tell Thanemancers: "We realize we made a mistake; Thane's romance in ME3 overall was poorly done, we didn't pay enough attention to him, and we are sorry. You are free to headcanon him a better romance/ending." (I know I don't need their permission for that, I'd just be glad if they acknowledged that a different fate for Thane was plausible.)

john-in-france wrote...

First of all, my apologies for being away from the thread that I started for so long, those of you that have read the thread know that I had to visit London due to personal issues. Sadly that all went pear shaped so I didn't check in, as I said I would.

Welcome back!

john-in-france wrote...

The memorial was appropriate if Thane had to die, though some of the wording was problematic...I also found that the same words were said by crewmates whether you were friends or lovers with Thane. I know that my own friends would react differently in these scenarios, but at least there was some acknowledgement I suppose.

I was most upset by the videos. Two say Siha, and the other two were obviously generic Shepard friend videos. However they were very fuzzy and the definition was poor. We are talking about a world that has holo images...why do we get a flatscreen, bad film look?

All those things bothered me, too. Shepard saying: "Thane also sacrificed himself for someone he didn't know, and I loved him for that" made me cringe. My Shepard loved him for who he was, not for his sacrifice.

And yeah, none of the squadmates actually acknowledged Shepard had lost a lover. I was hoping that someone would find Shepard watching those video messages Thane left and offer her a few words of solace. Also, the conversation with Kolyat was exactly the same for romanced and non-romanced Shepard. That was a huge disappointment to me. I wanted my Shepard to comfort Kolyat or vice versa, I wanted them to acknowledge Shepard was some sort of a stepmom to him, and I wanted Shepard to promise to keep in touch with him. I'm sure Thane would have appreciated it if Shepard at least tried to look after his son.

And the three first videos seemed like they were meant for friend!Shepard and just slightly modified to fit siha!Shepard. I didn't like how Thane mentioned Irikah's eyes when talking about New Mexico's sunset. Otherwise the videos were touching, and Keythe's voice work was amazing as always.

Modifié par Stilographium, 10 mars 2013 - 10:40 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

john-in-france wrote...
The memorial was appropriate if Thane had to die, though some of the wording was problematic...I also found that the same words were said by crewmates whether you were friends or lovers with Thane. I know that my own friends would react differently in these scenarios, but at least there was some acknowledgement I suppose.

The memorial fixed something that was a problem in every game, romanced or otherwise, that had Thane still alive in ME3.  Namely, the lack of acknowledgement for him after his death scene post-coup.  I imagine they had to keep most of that dialogue relatively neutral.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 10 mars 2013 - 11:34 .

[SilentK]

lyssalu wrote...

do you not understand sampling

like it's cool if you don't but if you admittedly don't understand stats or how they're acquired like

idk don't doubt it?

just admit to not getting it mebbe

Hmm.... I just have the voice of my professors in my ears asking questions. How did you verify that there was indeed an individual person behind each vote? What did you do in order to make sure that those individual who do not frequent the sites discussing the games in question participated in the survey? How did you make sure that you got results from people who play the games once as well as those who repaly it in case they treat it differently? And so on.....

In my year I was one of three females studens and there were a 100+ male students. However all of us participated in clubs, and it was the same with the handfull of other female students in previous and following years. There was however a smaller portion of males participating each year so when we had guest lectures and so on the male/female-ratio looked more like 20%-30% females for those guests even when that was not the case.

When I work and do tests I use a standard, most often ASTM-standards. It tells other people looking at my work how it was done and how they in turn can reproduce those results. When I have done that work I am confident in my numbers, and when I read reports using standards, and I can look back and trace how they did their work and be confident in their numbers. I do not work with statistics or probability, making sure that the group of people are representative of the lager population. I'm just a engineer in mechanics and materials.

It mostly just comes down to my own personal quirk about numbers. I have nothing but utmost prespect for people taking time and devotion working with these things for our mutual hobby. You are passionate about games and I love that, because I am quite passionate about them myself. But I will not use numbers I cannot verify. These numbers might be spot on, a great represenation of the entire gamer body, but I have no way of verifying them. This is just a personal hangup for me, I want to understand the result and where it came from. Otherwise I cannot defend my results when professors or other people at the lab ask how I came to one conclusion or another. Not saying that any of them would swop down or that I need defending it. It is just how I relate to numbers.

So basically, I love the devotion, it's just me and my personal hangup 

Modifié par SilentK, 10 mars 2013 - 02:18 .

[Renmiri1]

As far as same person voting twice or more, the poll system catches it based on ip address and browser cookies. Someone really determined to get their vote 2-3 times in would be able to open a different browser and get it in - I myself could have done it on IE, Chrome and Firefox as I have all 3 installed - but it would still be very limited and a lot of work to get more than 1 vote in. No one could get more than 10 votes in, for instance so to the 6,000 votes are pretty much unique votes,

Sample bias is inevitable as the population that votes on a poll like this is self selected. Only people who care about romance would have incentive to spend the 20 minutes the survey took. Still, it is not a big deal IMHO because of the overwhelming response we had. As I mentioned before Bioware barely got 1,000 answers on their own poll about a very well received DLC and their survey didn't take 20 minutes to fill out. We got 6,000 and that alone tells me we hit a nerve,

And luckily we now have empiric data to confirm it's accuracy. Go to the feedback thread started by Chris, response to this DLC has been overwhelmingly positive with many a disgruntled fan saying they finally can get closure.

So ya, despite the inherent limitations of a internet poll, the survey was done with care and got accurate results that are now being proven.

Anything can be done with statistics, trust me, I know, being a EE and MBA I have learned my share of sample bias and the like. But sometimes statistics does tell the truth, even when it can not tell it within 99% of accuracy.

But you would know that if you had worked with stats in the real world, not the classroom :innocent:

Modifié par Renmiri1, 10 mars 2013 - 03:47 .

[Julia_xo]

Stilographium wrote...
All those things bothered me, too. Shepard saying: "Thane also sacrificed himself for someone he didn't know, and I loved him for that" made me cringe. My Shepard loved him for who he was, not for his sacrifice.

Thane's sacrifice is not the reason my Shepard loved him, either. It's like BioWare think if they keep repeating iterations of 'Thane died a hero/his sacrifice was heroic" enough times it will distract everyone from how nonsensical and ridiculous that whole Kai Leng fight was.

Shepard might as well have said: "I loved Thane - in retrospect. Never bothered to actually tell him that since I was more interested in trying to initiate a public groping session at the time. He was later killed due to my gross incompetence. I was admiring dust particles in the air while he fought Kai Leng and I didn't really feel like helping so he got skewered."

Kolyat: How could you, Commander!!!1

Shepard: Tragic romance, lolz! *insert troll face here*

Garrus: Well, I only found out Thane died today and I was with you on the Citadel that day!  Hmm, guess those dust particles were really distracting.

Oh, and maybe for added effect a random Salarian scientist should have burst into the memorial service and shouted: "I DISCOVERED THE CURE FOR KEPRAL'S SYNDROME!"

...............

......

"Too late?"

<_<

[SilentK]

Renmiri1 wrote...

As far as same person voting twice or more, the poll system catches it based on ip address and browser
cookies. Someone really determined to get their vote 2-3 times in would be able to open a different browser and get it in - I myself could have done it on IE, Chrome and Firefox as I have all 3 installed - but it would still be very limited and a lot of work to get more than 1 vote in. No one could get more than 10 votes in, for instance so to the 6,000 votes are pretty much unique votes,

Sample bias is inevitable as the population that votes on a poll like this is self selected. Only people who care about romance would have incentive to spend the 20 minutes the survey took. Still, it is not a big deal IMHO because of the overwhelming response we had. As I mentioned before Bioware barely got 1,000 answers on their own poll about a very well received DLC and their survey didn't take 20 minutes to fill out. We got 6,000 and that alone tells me we hit a nerve,

And luckily we now have empiric data to confirm it's accuracy. Go to the feedback thread started by Chris, response to this DLC has been overwhelmingly positive with many a disgruntled fan saying they finally can get closure.

So ya, despite the inherent limitations of a internet poll, the survey was done with care and got accurate results that are now being proven.

Anything can be done with statistics, trust me, I know, being a EE and MBA I have learned my share of sample bias and the like. But sometimes statistics does tell the truth, even when it can not tell it within 99% of accuracy.

But you would know that if you had worked with stats in the real world, not the classroom :innocent:

Ohh yes I fully agree there =) the Citadel-dlc was full of awesome!

It made me so happy there are no words for it. Wish Thane had gotten any real life content but the thing I saw a friend to him moved me to tears. And yes, I always shout for more LI-content here on the forum. Have written in the thread asking for romance-dlc a couple of times saying that I would buy it. So I fully agree it is important, because what it does for the story and for shaping our Shepards. I am a 100% with you on that. Woot! I just don't like using the specific numbers, I know it is a little bit silly. It's also too much like work, this is my happy place where I focus on my hobby. Here I just want to enjoy games and story, rather leave my engineering-self with all her ideas on how things are done properly at the door so to speak. If you want someone to get a pitchfork and march for the sake of LI:s and their importance in games I'm your girl. Just please don't ask me to comment on specific numbers because then I my workplace-self starts having irritating ideas.

Ha ha, I must be sounding more daft by the minute =) time to head back to ME2 and get my Ash-saving FemShep going. Enjoy the Thane-thread everyone.

Modifié par SilentK, 10 mars 2013 - 04:29 .

[Renmiri1]

You know what ALSO gets me mad ?

You only get the "grope" session at the first time you visit Thane. After that he flatly refuses, saying he is too tired for it. Then he goes chase a cereal killer on foot and fight hand to hand combat and he is not too exhausted to do THAT!

I think that "Let's just talk Shepard, it is less exhausting" line is the line I hate most in the entire ME3 game. Because it is unnecessary and cruel to us who romanced Thane. They want us to believe he is about to die and refuses any contact, then they want us to believe he can stop Kai-Lame and leaves a prayer for us ?

Another unnecessary cruelty to Thanemancers is that no matter what you do, to get out of the dialog with Thane, after you initiated it, you have to hear him saying "We always knew it would have to end". FFS. any friend or lover would be gentler after the first time he said it.

I hate those dialogs at Huerta with a passion. For friend Thane he says he will keep in touch on the Intranet, for Thanemancers is "We always knew it had to end". [inappropriate comment removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 12 mars 2013 - 07:39 .

[Vlk3]

@ Ren, I agree, this line "We always knew it had to end" is horrible. To me, it sounded as though the whole romance was already over.
That's why I'm not going to play this game again with my Thane-romancing, canon Shepard. I want her story to be coherent and not only the events of ME3 do not allow me to continue the story, but also the way she acts towards Thane. The whole romance is broken just from the start and Citadel is not enough to fix it.
The line "We always knew it would end" is another instance of BioWare trying to force us into thinking that 'Thane must die, and his only purpose in this game to provide dramatic and emotional death'.

Stilographium wrote...

So much this. At this point, I'd feel a bit better if they simply could tell Thanemancers: "We realize we made a mistake; Thane's romance in ME3 overall was poorly done, we didn't pay enough attention to him, and we are sorry. You are free to headcanon him a better romance/ending." (I know I don't need their permission for that, I'd just be glad if they acknowledged that a different fate for Thane was plausible.)

This x 1000000

[lyssalu]

SilentK wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

do you not understand sampling

like it's cool if you don't but if you admittedly don't understand stats or how they're acquired like

idk don't doubt it?

just admit to not getting it mebbe

Hmm.... I just have the voice of my professors in my ears asking questions. How did you verify that there was indeed an individual person behind each vote? What did you do in order to make sure that those individual who do not frequent the sites discussing the games in question participated in the survey? How did you make sure that you got results from people who play the games once as well as those who repaly it in case they treat it differently? And so on.....

In my year I was one of three females studens and there were a 100+ male students. However all of us participated in clubs, and it was the same with the handfull of other female students in previous and following years. There was however a smaller portion of males participating each year so when we had guest lectures and so on the male/female-ratio looked more like 20%-30% females for those guests even when that was not the case.

When I work and do tests I use a standard, most often ASTM-standards. It tells other people looking at my work how it was done and how they in turn can reproduce those results. When I have done that work I am confident in my numbers, and when I read reports using standards, and I can look back and trace how they did their work and be confident in their numbers. I do not work with statistics or probability, making sure that the group of people are representative of the lager population. I'm just a engineer in mechanics and materials.

It mostly just comes down to my own personal quirk about numbers. I have nothing but utmost prespect for people taking time and devotion working with these things for our mutual hobby. You are passionate about games and I love that, because I am quite passionate about them myself. But I will not use numbers I cannot verify. These numbers might be spot on, a great represenation of the entire gamer body, but I have no way of verifying them. This is just a personal hangup for me, I want to understand the result and where it came from. Otherwise I cannot defend my results when professors or other people at the lab ask how I came to one conclusion or another. Not saying that any of them would swop down or that I need defending it. It is just how I relate to numbers.

So basically, I love the devotion, it's just me and my personal hangup 

tbh im trollin an d ihnc what that survei was even about but kewl paragraphs 

[Renmiri1]

Misusing statistics..
http://boingboing.ne...do-50-of-a.html

Plenty of that around but the cosmic love survey was as well done as the internet allowed.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Renmiri1 wrote...


Sample bias is inevitable as the population that votes on a poll like this is self selected. Only people who care about romance would have incentive to spend the 20 minutes the survey took. Still, it is not a big deal IMHO because of the overwhelming response we had. As I mentioned before Bioware barely got 1,000 answers on their own poll about a very well received DLC and their survey didn't take 20 minutes to fill out. We got 6,000 and that alone tells me we hit a nerve,

This isn't really accurate. Only people dissatisfied with the romance would have the incentive, which is a much higher bias towards ME2 romancers in particular, given their disproportionately poor treatment compared to the ME1 romances.

[Wulfram]

Stilographium wrote...

All those things bothered me, too. Shepard saying: "Thane also sacrificed himself for someone he didn't know, and I loved him for that" made me cringe. My Shepard loved him for who he was, not for his sacrifice.

Well, part of who he was, was that he was someone who'd make that sacrifice.  I think that's the intent of those words

[Renmiri1]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...


Sample bias is inevitable as the population that votes on a poll like this is self selected. Only people who care about romance would have incentive to spend the 20 minutes the survey took. Still, it is not a big deal IMHO because of the overwhelming response we had. As I mentioned before Bioware barely got 1,000 answers on their own poll about a very well received DLC and their survey didn't take 20 minutes to fill out. We got 6,000 and that alone tells me we hit a nerve,

This isn't really accurate. Only people dissatisfied with the romance would have the incentive, which is a much higher bias towards ME2 romancers in particular, given their disproportionately poor treatment compared to the ME1 romances.

Perhaps.. I've yet to find people satisfied with the romance in the game shipped before EC. Even Liara fans were upset.

[Vlk3]

Whenever I watch or read about something that happens in Citadel DLC, I feel even more left out. So many amazing banters, jokes and Thane is not included. How can anyone think that it is ok? ;/

[LadySayuri]

I have a quick question, if my Shepard romanced Liara in the end after Thane died (she was my first romance then I cheated on her so double cheating makes me loyal, right?) is Thane no longer my LI? I finished the DLC mission and haven't gotten a message from Kolyat so I'm kinda worried I won't get to see the memorial. Personally, even though my Shepard wasn't alone in the end doesn't mean the Thane romance shouldn't cancel out. I'll be kinda upset if that's the case since I had no idea I'd ever see Thane again

[Battlebloodmage]

LadySayuri wrote...

I have a quick question, if my Shepard romanced Liara in the end after Thane died (she was my first romance then I cheated on her so double cheating makes me loyal, right?) is Thane no longer my LI? I finished the DLC mission and haven't gotten a message from Kolyat so I'm kinda worried I won't get to see the memorial. Personally, even though my Shepard wasn't alone in the end doesn't mean the Thane romance shouldn't cancel out. I'll be kinda upset if that's the case since I had no idea I'd ever see Thane again

The funeral will happen no matter what. I didn't romance Thane, but I still get to see the funeral. 

[Missy_MI]

Renmiri1 wrote...
You only get the "grope" session at the first time you visit Thane. After that he flatly refuses, saying he is too tired for it. Then he goes chase a cereal killer on foot and fight hand to hand combat and he is not too exhausted to do THAT!

I guess I always interpreted that as Thane giving everything he had left to save the counselor. And in a certain respect, it's more noble than even Legion or Mordin's sacrifices. Legion gave up his newfound life to benefit his own kind, and Mordin cured the genophage in part to redeem himself.

Thane pushed himself past his limits to save just one life, someone he didn't even know, because it was the right thing to do. And he loved Shepard and Kolyat, so it's not like he didn't have anything left to live for. It speaks volumes about his character, and I really liked that Shepard pointed it out during the Citadel memorial.

I know it's not much comfort for the folks who had their hearts set on a cure, but I thought the new DLC went about as far as it could without retconning Thane's death. Especially the last scene, which I felt was really nicely done.

[Eliza]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

LadySayuri wrote...

I have a quick question, if my Shepard romanced Liara in the end after Thane died (she was my first romance then I cheated on her so double cheating makes me loyal, right?) is Thane no longer my LI? I finished the DLC mission and haven't gotten a message from Kolyat so I'm kinda worried I won't get to see the memorial. Personally, even though my Shepard wasn't alone in the end doesn't mean the Thane romance shouldn't cancel out. I'll be kinda upset if that's the case since I had no idea I'd ever see Thane again

The funeral will happen no matter what. I didn't romance Thane, but I still get to see the funeral. 

But is it the same scene that you get as LI or the one you get when you are just a friend? The scenes are different.

Modifié par Eliza, 12 mars 2013 - 01:38 .

[Renmiri1]

Only difference is that FriendShep calls Thane a criminal - on his eulogy - and doesn't says anything about loving him. There's an extra hologram and a ghost that appears just for LIs but the rest is pretty much the same.

[Persephone]

Vlk3 wrote...

Whenever I watch or read about something that happens in Citadel DLC, I feel even more left out. So many amazing banters, jokes and Thane is not included. How can anyone think that it is ok? ;/

I just don't understand why it was locked on happening after the coup. They had all the actors, why not make some pre-coup content if you start it earlier with Thane alive? (And just edit the scenes that refer to the coup to leave that out)  Granted, Thane was in no shape to be a squaddie but I'd have loved for him to come to the apartment. And the party. And maybe a quiet date. And....stuff. And the memorial scene could just have unlocked later too. Boom. Much better. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?