51 réponses à ce sujet

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

well I was thinking while playing warrior that it sucks I cant lock pick u miss alot in the begining if u cant do so. I noticed I could still pickpocket while lockpicking is limited to rogue class only. Shouldnt it be the other way around? I would have lockpicking be in the skills area rather than talents much like stealing is. If not having stealing placed in the rogue alone would make more sense. Anyone else? cause it seems rather weird that warrior can mug a guy but its a no no for him to break locks on doors and chests?(and I say warrior cause its my class, not that mages havent the same issue)

[Sidney]

Yes, I don't get that as a warrior I can steal, do traps, poisons and a lot of other roguish things but lockpicking no. Plus, by making it rogue specific it puts into the combat trees where it really do not belong.

[CakesOnAPlane]

Yea, even if it was rogue specific it would have been better as a skill imo.

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

exactly and that space could have been given to give rogues more weapon skills with dual weilding or just more roguish attacks

[Sidney]

TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain wrote...

exactly and that space could have been given to give rogues more weapon skills with dual weilding or just more roguish attacks

Rogues take it on the chin trying to spread their skills all over the trees anyways with their specializations and rogue skills so adding that additional skill tree makes it really tough.

[dragonageman]

What bothered me was that on my first go round, I decided to play a warrior. To my dismay, there were locked doors, chests, cabinets etc., everywhere. I couldn't unlock any of them for hours of gameplay when I finally picked up Leilana. There are probably more than a dozen things you can't unlock before you can get even get her. It was very frustrating to CONSTANTLY run into stuff I couldn't unlock.



Also, don't get me started about how frustrating it was to not have put any points into coercion. You basically have to play an evil character and kill everyone you meet unless you take this.



RPG's have done this stuff better in the past and it's a shame they didn't structure the game differently around these two skills.

[Kalcalan]

The way I see it, Rogues "have" special tools that Mages and Warriors don't have access to so they alone can pick locks whereas any character can pick a pocket with some dexterity and training.



The same goes for traps and poisons. If you're playing some sort of Warrior who is mainly a hunter you may want to be able to use traps so restricting traps to Rogues wouldn't make sense. A Mage who would consider himself or herself to be an alchemist would probably invest points in poisons to be able to craft bombs (thus not always using magic or combining both magic and bombs).



If that really annoys you there are mods for the PC that allow Warriors and Mages to break locks.

[BHRamsay]

breaking locks would have been fine... to make it realistic you could even have the thing in KOTOR2 where breaking something open caused a random object inside to break.

[RobotXYZ]

No I disagree with OP. I think its really well done. You are NOT hosed for not opening chests if you don't wish. Just lose some gold and xp (its level scaled a bit anyhow). I think granting mages lockpick would make as much sense as giving rogues a healing ability. From the warrior tree I am sure rogues wouldn't mind a taunt ability as you could make a rogue dex tank.

[RobotXYZ]

delete this accidental post

Modifié par RobotXYZ, 10 janvier 2010 - 11:13 .

[Ginasue]

Right now, I'm playing a rogue, and let me tell you in those locked chest and things, there is nothing that important. Maybe a piece of regular armor, or a gemstone, or a potion of some type. Your not missing anything important by not being able to open them, but I agree with you. It's kind of upsetting to have them in your face and not be able to open them or bash them open

[dragonageman]

@Kalcalan...



I think it's necessary to do something to make rogues feel like rogues. Unlocking stuff is right up there with that. But to bombard you so early on in the game with all these locks you have no access to, made for very frustrating play. If they want to fill your intro area with locks everywhere, give you some way of opening them. Let you add a rogue to your party from the get go.



The fact that I was bombarded by this from the first few minutes of game play made it very frustrating. They made a similar mistake with Neverwinter Nights 1, where it took like 30 seconds to break open a chest if you weren't a rogue. Watching my guy hack at a chest for 30 seconds just isn't fun game play.



Maybe they'll get it right on their next game.

[Joseph Silver]

I'm of the opinion that Stealth and Lockpicking should be skills, not talents. Because they are talents, rogues have to spend precious talent points to unlock them. If they were skills, rogues would be able to use their abundant skill points to get them, saving the talent points for combat-related stuff.

[RobotXYZ]

but then healing spell and taunt could be skills

[Kalcalan]

Well, dragonageman, I understand your point of view but if you consider that your Warrior wouldn't actually bother about breaking every locks in the early game it may help.

If you play a human noble warrior you may not consider it compulsory for your character to open all the chests to get a few goodies (elfroots in chests? What were they thinking?) what I mean is that if you play a mage or a noble warrior, looting chests may well be beneath your character.

Of course, playing a dwarf commoner warrior would make it less satisfying in that respect except if you think of such a character to be lacking the finesse required for picking locks (which makes sense given the fact that the dwarf commoner is more of a thug and a bully).

Later on you can have an NPC to do the looting and if you're disatisfied you can use a mod like this one: http://social.bioware.com/project/873/

I like the way the system works and I think that stealth shouldn't be available for other classes (although it wouldn't be so bad for a Dalish warrior). You need to be able to separate rogues from warriors so as it is the fact that rogues and warriors have their own abilities make for more variety.

Modifié par Kalcalan, 11 janvier 2010 - 12:05 .

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

dragonageman wrote...

@Kalcalan...

I think it's necessary to do something to make rogues feel like rogues. Unlocking stuff is right up there with that. But to bombard you so early on in the game with all these locks you have no access to, made for very frustrating play. If they want to fill your intro area with locks everywhere, give you some way of opening them. Let you add a rogue to your party from the get go.

The fact that I was bombarded by this from the first few minutes of game play made it very frustrating. They made a similar mistake with Neverwinter Nights 1, where it took like 30 seconds to break open a chest if you weren't a rogue. Watching my guy hack at a chest for 30 seconds just isn't fun game play.

Maybe they'll get it right on their next game.

yes especially in the dalsih origin or human noble ugh so frustration, not to mention tower of Ishal. And the breaking locks open Idea is right on u can do it to dwyn if he doesnt open the door.

Also the weapon skills being seperate from mages kinda sucks I wish they had at least let the mages choose what type o skill set  they could use like if u want to do magic and swords with shield u get the shield tier added or something seems useless to be an arcane mage other wise

[TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain]

RobotXYZ wrote...

but then healing spell and taunt could be skills

no see healing is magic, and taunt is more of a battle skill were as stealth and lock picking only have one use stealth hides u lockpicking only works outside the field of battle

[RobotXYZ]

Why couldn't rogues have a skill that healed without magic. With their sneakiness and stuff? Why couldn't a rogue have a taunt battleskill?  Frankly I object to other classes having poison and traps.

Modifié par RobotXYZ, 11 janvier 2010 - 12:56 .

[knownastherat]

Could be design based choice not necessarily logical one from RP based logic. Something like Skill vs Talents and points to distribute. "Logically" yes, seems odd to be able to steal as mana clashing mage but not to manipulate a lock. Luckily, it is optional.

[dragonageman]

Yeah I know the loot in a lot of the chests sucks, but in my first run through I found it irritating to constantly run into stuff I couldn't open as I had no idea what I was missing. Locked doors were even more frustrating because I couldn't even fully explore an area. Once in a while would have been okay and I would've said "Drat, I'll play a rogue next time and see what's past that door". But to have things locked pop up everywhere, all the time just got annoying.



Also, on the console version, you can't use mods, so you're basically screwed if you play a warrior. I found class balance very frustrating on the console as the only viable warrior you can make for playing as your main character is a tank, and if you play a rogue, you can get a huge amount of money at the beginning by sacrificing next to nothing.



Mind you, I like the game. I just wish they'd gotten class balance better. It would have been great if they'd not stuck WoW mechanics in and kept an even more classic RPG feel than even what they ended up with.

[wwwwowwww]

I agree.



I also think backstab should be a talent that the rogue has to put points into in order to make it more and more effective.

[maxernst]

The loot in the chests I've opened is so pathetic that I've regretted taking the lockpick skill with my rogue.

[ChaoticBroth]

Meh. There's only a few chests out there in the entire game that are worth picking, but other than that, nothing much aside from maybe spending 1-2 more sovereigns at the store.



Besides, from an RP standpoint, it makes sense. If I was a warrior, I'd spend more time focusing on my combat skills, as opposed to tampering with locks. If I was a mage, I'd be focusing on my magic, not messing with locks as mentioned above. Sure, a mage or warrior could steal and plant traps (but not disarm them), but a rogue would be a lot more viable for the role, even if you were going from the whole RP standpoint thing.



Even then, you're not really missing much. I think the best loot pre-Lothering from any chests are elemental arrows.



@ dragonageman, keep in mind that no matter what, balance will always be an issue. Change one thing, and people will shift to another, and it'll repeat itself. Nothing can be balanced properly.



And seriously, I don't know what about this game that everyone likes to tack "WoW mechanics" onto it, but WoW isn't the first to have such mechanics, and DA isn't going to be the last.

[Future237]

there is a mod for this.



http://social.biowar...m/project/1297/



I think thats what you really need.