342 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Neither would you, but hey.

I wouldn't have my straw man?  What argument am I attributing to someone that they are not making?

AlanC9 is telling me to not choose "Refuse" from Mass Effect 3 (he can correct me if I'm wrong) in response to me answering someone's question about whether or not living life loses zest if you know you are going to die.

What words am I putting in AlanC9's mouth by pointing out, with ridicule, that I wasn't talking about Mass Effect 3?

Whereas his telling me that I was conflating the endings of ME3 by my statements about real life (again, he can correct me that he WASN'T quoting me and answer me about ME3, that it just looked exactly like that) seems pretty straw man to me.

He took my statement and placed in context where it seems silly, outside the context of what I made it in.

Where did I do that?

[Dean_the_Young]

MerinTB wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Neither would you, but hey.

I wouldn't have my straw man?  What argument am I attributing to someone that they are not making?

AlanC9 is telling me to not choose "Refuse" from Mass Effect 3 (he can correct me if I'm wrong) in response to me answering someone's question about whether or not living life loses zest if you know you are going to die.

That's not the argument he's addressing, which was your use of hyperbole in a commonly used context.

What words am I putting in AlanC9's mouth by pointing out, with ridicule, that I wasn't talking about Mass Effect 3?

The ones you just re-phrased.

[MerinTB]

EntropicAngel wrote...
Lol. Well, accepting this--where is the proof that they lose all desire to live? What you quoted doesn't say that.

Okay, this is probably my fault for including the last statement about speculative fiction.

There are numerous sci-fi stories where either someone learns the time and cause of their future death and they become shells of their former selves, or, even more common, just the "common wisdom" given in such stories of "you don't want to know when and where you will die - it takes all the joy out of life."

If you divorce that sentence of mine about speculative fiction, all the rest of what I was saying was in reaction to the " do you find hanging out with your friends pointless and sad because you are going to die someday" question directed at the OP.

And my answer stands - for me, anytime I think about my wife, daughter, friends and family dying, that everything must end, it often causes me to feel everything is pointless and sad.  Not all the time, no, and I am living my life with many surprises to come... but it is the surprises and not knowing that makes it worth going forward.

Knowing everything that was going to happen, how everything was going to end... if I knew that, I'd probably not want to keep going on.  I can't know for certain, but it seems bleak and sad to me.

[MerinTB]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Neither would you, but hey.

I wouldn't have my straw man?  What argument am I attributing to someone that they are not making?

AlanC9 is telling me to not choose "Refuse" from Mass Effect 3 (he can correct me if I'm wrong) in response to me answering someone's question about whether or not living life loses zest if you know you are going to die.

That's not the argument he's addressing, which was your use of hyperbole in a commonly used context.

It isn't?  Here's the ENTIRE context of his response :

MerinTB - "I think the difference the OP means is, after you witness your own death and the death and destruction of everything you hold dear, can you enjoy building that up KNOWING what is going to happen?" (<--- italicized by AlanC9)

AlanC9 - "Huh? If you don't want everything you hold dear destroyed, just don't pick Refuse. It's not rocket science."

That's the entire exchange.  He left out (and possibly ignored / misunderstood) the parts that helped show that I wasn't talking about ME3.

And his response was to tell me to make a different choice in a video game.

Straw man.  I wasn't talking about ME3, I was talking about this statment - "do you find hanging out with your friends pointless and sad because you are going to die someday"

Dean_the_Young wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
What words am I putting in AlanC9's mouth by pointing out, with ridicule, that I wasn't talking about Mass Effect 3?

The ones you just re-phrased.

Gave the whole exchange above.  I wasn't talking about ME3, he responds to me as if I were and as if I were being deliberately obtuse.

Perhaps you should bone up on your reading comprehension and get a better understanding of logical fallacies.

Modifié par MerinTB, 23 février 2013 - 10:10 .

[MerinTB]

EntropicAngel wrote...
But thinking about myself dying is a peaceful, pleasureful thing. I can't wait to die.

I sure can.  I don't want to make anyone who loves me sad about my passing.  I want to be around to help those I care about and love.

And I want to experience more.  More movies, more games, more books - I want to write more, and meet more people, and see new technologies.

There's far too much to learn and be part of and enjoy.  Death is a finale, perhaps a nice capping on a well lived life.  But I've got plenty of life left I want to live.

Put me down for the "sure can absolutely wait to die as long as you'll let me wait!"

[billy the squid]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

I mean there seems to be heavy emphasis on this DLC with hanging out with your squadmates, and even more romantic content. Which would be fantastic, if it weren't going to be overshadowed by the ending. How many people are gonna be having emotional moments with their bro/li in this DLC, and then thoughts of the ending pop in the back of your mind? 

I know i would. To me, this is just gonna make things the ending even harder to deal with than it already is.

Lol, I don't care. I'm just using ME3 for the MP, not a pixel waifu!

[HomerIsLegend]

I don't understand why some people think just because having an ending where Shepard lives is considered a "happy ending". Half the galaxy is in ruins and you've probably lost a lot of good people including squadmates in your playthrough... so seeing him reunite with the crew after it was over wouldn't necessarily be sunshine & rainbows.

I don't really identify with the pro or anti end-game crowd but other than running out of production time it boggles my mind this series (the story of Shep) ended the way it did by forcing you to choose how your Shep perished with no other options. Breath scene is the example of how NOT to end the story of a hero unless you plan to revisit him in the future.

Modifié par HomerIsLegend, 24 février 2013 - 12:21 .

[Almostfaceman]

It's odd that any of them would give a crap that someone wants another ending as long as they're happy with theirs. But controllers gotta control.

[AlanC9]

MerinTB wrote...

That's the entire exchange.  He left out (and possibly ignored / misunderstood) the parts that helped show that I wasn't talking about ME3.

How about "missed entirely." The parts that showed you weren't talking about ME3  weren't on the page of the thread where I came in.

It didn't occur to me that a post on an ME3 board wouldn't have anything to do with ME3. My bad.

Can we maybe get back to ME3 now?

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 février 2013 - 11:56 .

[Yuqi]

FAButzke wrote...

So you want to have a happy ending. Otherwise nothing you did matters. Sorry to break it down to you but you and your loved ones will die some day too in real life. Get over it.

[warblewobble]

How in the blazing hells are you people disatisfied with the notion of a dlc that will let you hook up with former squadmates for one last blaze of glory? I'm sorry- the ending sucks, but that level of deliberate and entrenched refusal to enjoy the game is just insane.

[KevShep]

warblewobble wrote...

How in the blazing hells are you people disatisfied with the notion of a dlc that will let you hook up with former squadmates for one last blaze of glory? I'm sorry- the ending sucks, but that level of deliberate and entrenched refusal to enjoy the game is just insane.

You say its insane but those of us that are complaining are making sure that game devs and pubs will ALWAYS remember that cutting corners will not do.

I think that we have made our point.

[Villevissen]

It would seem that you earthclans aint learned nothing from ME2..... shnnnhhhhhhhnhnhnhuuuu.
Since when did death ever stop shepherd?... shhhhhhnnnnnnhhhuuu

[MerinTB]

AlanC9 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

That's the entire exchange.  He left out (and possibly ignored / misunderstood) the parts that helped show that I wasn't talking about ME3.

How about "missed entirely." The parts that showed you weren't talking about ME3  weren't on the page of the thread where I came in.

It didn't occur to me that a post on an ME3 board wouldn't have anything to do with ME3. My bad.

Can we maybe get back to ME3 now?

It was just the one post, I hadn't posted prior in this thread, so you hadn't missed anything.

You assumed (wrongly) that I was talking about the ME3 ending.  I was referring to a tangential question that was asked of the OP on the first page of the thread.  One of the first responses in the thread, even.

Bringing it back to ME3...

I tried to play ME3 a second time, pretty much right after finishing my first playthrough.  Before the controversy hit it's climax, well before the EC was even mentioned by BioWare.  I love the ME series, and over 90% of ME3.  I figured that, for me to enjoy a replay of ME3, I'd stop just before getting beamed up to the Citadel... or maybe just after activating the Catalyst.  Ignore the rest of the game ending, enjoy the parts I liked leading up to it.

But the whole time I was replaying, ever single moment I was playing the game, and for a bit before sitting down to play and for a bit after stopping each session, all I could think about was how pointless what I was doing was as I knew, no matter how much I tried to lie to myself, how CRAPPY it was all going to turn out.

I wasn't having fun.  It felt like work.  I stopped shortly into Mars and haven't looked back.

So, relating the question I was answering to ME3, YES, by Lee and Kirby, I sure cannot enjoy "my digital time with my Shepard's digital friends" knowing the end result.

And relating to your response to me, my only playthrough of ME3, before there was even the mention of BioWare addressing the widespread disatisfaction with their (My Opinion follows) failure at trying to write a "unique sci-fi ending" (opinon ended), ended up the synthesis ending, which arguably is the "happiest" ending, and THAT ending makes me feel replays are not worth it.

Refuse didn't exist when I played.  Honestly, having watched a YouTube video of that ending, it's (opinion follows) a happier ending than the original three (opinion ends.)  So my not choosing it is a non sequitor - it does not follow, in regards to my experiences and feelings.

There.... tied that up nicely, I figure.

[WheatleyHQ]

It all depends on the person, I guess.

[hiraeth]

warblewobble wrote...

How in the blazing hells are you people disatisfied with the notion of a dlc that will let you hook up with former squadmates for one last blaze of glory? I'm sorry- the ending sucks, but that level of deliberate and entrenched refusal to enjoy the game is just insane.

I don't think it's deliberate and entrenched, at least not in my case. I would *LOVE* to be able to play through the games again and enjoy them the same way I did on my first playthrough of ME3. I love the series and the characters. Especially now that I know the ending won't change and that I have no choice but to accept it, it doesn't make sense for me to purposefully force myself to not enjoy the games. I just simply *cannot* enjoy them. Maybe you can, and that's great. All of my favorite scenes have become, "That's such a touching scene...doesn't matter, though." As I've said before, I'll buy this DLC because I adore the characters and new content has the potential to return some of the enjoyment (at least for the first playthrough), but ultimately I do think it will carry the dark shadow of the ending, where Shepard's story ends in a pile of rubble.