342 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Nerevar-as wrote...

If you learnt that IRL you´d have the worst death you can imagine, and it would undo all your life stood for, would you really enjoy the rest of yout life? That´s the flaw in ME ending, not Shepard dying.

Have you read Childhood´s End?

I have, but I don't see the relevance. Shepard's death isn't particularly bad, and doesn't undo anything. he dies in the moment of victory, not defeat.

Refuse excepted, of course.

[Eterna]

@Ryoten

I never said it was good, nor was that the intent of my message. I just find it asinine to think that the person in questions feedback is more important than others.

Modifié par Eterna5, 23 février 2013 - 12:39 .

[Dr. Megaverse]

I think people like Eterna persist in this attitude they have for some sense of personal worth. Why else continue to argue with the "vocal minority" (note the sarcastic air quotes) when his type seems to have nothing to say but "WAAAAAAAH YOU'RE WHINING, IMA CONTRARIAN!!!" everytime someone expresses dissapointment with the ending?

[MegaSovereign]

PainCakesx wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Okay, I guess this isn't really going anywhere.

Nope. The endings are ridiculous and make no sense. Nothing will convince me otherwise, just like how people who love the endings won't likely be convinced otherwise.

Well at least you're acknowledging the fact that there are people who like the endings.

Now take it one step further and you'll realize that perhaps the endings do make sense to those who like it.

[PainCakesx]

Kryptonater wrote...

I don't understand why people are so hung up about the endings still and Sheps death :S Destroy = Evil as you are committing genocide against the Geth and killing EDI, your friend. Control = Controlling the reapers to help rebuild and provide protection and keep the peace in the Galaxy (and I swear to God if anyone mentions Indoctrination Theory I won't waste my breath answering them). People say it is mind control, so your telling me that you would prefer a gang of murderers to be allowed to do what they want with their free will and kill as many people as they'd like, or simply re-habilitate them to be working members of society (which is basically what the Control option does, it like the re-writing of the Geth heretics, its not mind control or brainwashing, it is simply changing the math). And finally synthesis = Peace and happiness for everyone forever, as all life in the Galaxy is united under one banner and work together for a better future.

And this DLC is probably going to be the best yet as I would love to have more fleshed out romances and conversation with squadmates that were basically left out e.g. Samara, Jack, Miranda, Grunt, (Mordin, Jacob, Legion, Thane, Kasumi if possible). How can one dislike the concept of having a proper farewell to the characters we have all grown to love over the past 5 years, it utterly confounds me how so many people are cynical of this.

Let's start with synthesis. How does eliminating diversity and homogenizing the galaxy immediately result in peace and happiness? There are a number of well known historical figures who promoted this ideal, none who I aspire to become.

In terms of Control - education and counselling is a bit different than rewriting a person's brain and personality. I personally would rather die than have all free will removed, becoming little more than a mindless slave to be used at the whim of some supreme overlord. Additionally, there is NO guarentee that ShepAI will never turn on its people given that it's NOT Shepard but simply an imprint of him.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Nerevar-as wrote...
So a clone with your memories would be you? Even if it lived at the same time than you?

All we are is our brains. If someone makes an identical copy of every neuron and protein in my brain, that resulting copy is in every way "me". It will think like me, do what I would do, and be in every way that matters me.

I mean, we can sit here and debate about a "soul" and what the essence of what makes me really "me", but that's really outside the scope of this argument. Needless to say if my Shepard was uploaded into a Reaper, I have confidence that this version of Shepard will be as awesome as the real Shepard who's body was disintigrated in the process. Except more awesome because now I will be a thousand tons and shoot lazerz from my machine tendrils.

And it's cool about the hostility. It's the interwebz, I don't take offense from anything 

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 23 février 2013 - 12:42 .

[McFlurry598]

The ending *whine whine whine* I hate Bioware for life
Its been an entire YEAR, get over it already, you don't want the DLC? Don't ****ing buy it

Modifié par McFlurry598, 23 février 2013 - 12:44 .

[Nerevar-as]

AlanC9 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

If you learnt that IRL you´d have the worst death you can imagine, and it would undo all your life stood for, would you really enjoy the rest of yout life? That´s the flaw in ME ending, not Shepard dying.

Have you read Childhood´s End?

I have, but I don't see the relevance. Shepard's death isn't particularly bad, and doesn't undo anything. he dies in the moment of victory, not defeat.

Refuse excepted, of course.

Depending on the Shepard, it undoes everything. Genocide, overlord, or mumbojumbo. How do they fit with what Shepard stood for (maybe excepting renControl)?

And it does feel like defeat. When the bad guy dictates the terms, it wins.

[PainCakesx]

MegaSovereign wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Okay, I guess this isn't really going anywhere.

Nope. The endings are ridiculous and make no sense. Nothing will convince me otherwise, just like how people who love the endings won't likely be convinced otherwise.

Well at least you're acknowledging the fact that there are people who like the endings.

Now take it one step further and you'll realize that perhaps the endings do make sense to those who like it.

I've never heard any argument as to how it makes scientific sense for a ray of green light to genetically alter every living organism at the molecular level. 

[PainCakesx]

McFlurry598 wrote...

The ending *whine whine whine* I hate Bioware for life
Its been an entire YEAR, get over it already, you don't want the DLC? Don't ****ing buy it

Don't like it, don't read the thread. 

[Nerevar-as]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
So a clone with your memories would be you? Even if it lived at the same time than you?

All we are is our brains. If someone makes an identical copy of every neuron and protein in my brain, that resulting copy is in every way "me". It will think like me, do what I would do, and be in every way that matters me.

I mean, we can sit here and debate about a "soul" and what the essence of what makes me really "me", but that's really outside the scope of this argument. Needless to say if my Shepard was uploaded into a Reaper, I have confidence that this version of Shepard will be as awesome as the real Shepard who's body was disintigrated in the process. Except more awesome because now I will be a thousand tons and shoot lazerz from my machine tendrils.

And it's cool about the hostility. It's the interwebz, I don't take offense from anything 

Different ideas about identity and life then. It´s an interesting POV, even if one I don´t agree with (Duncan Idaho sounds familiar?) Glad for you that you enjoyed one of the endings we got.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Additionally, there is NO guarentee that ShepAI will never turn on its people given that it's NOT Shepard but simply an imprint of him.

There's no guarantee of anything in any of the endings. That's the thing about the whole Crucible arc... you make this thing to fight the Reapers as a last ditch effort but you never know what it does or if it'll even work, it's just the only chance you have. And sitting at the end all there is is you and the instruction manual saying to push a button and you just have to take it on faith that the Crucible will do what the instruction manual says. For all we know the option for "Destroy" could just cause the Crucible to shoot ice cream at the Reapers. But it doesn't really matter because we've established that the Reapers aren't going to be beaten with conventional military force so... better that than nothing.

But luckily we have the epilogue to tell us straight up that Machine-God Shepard takes the Reapers and helps rebuild everything and then flies away into space and then his/her whole monologue about how she will be a watchful guardian of all the races. So there really isn't much ambiguity as to how it turns out in the immediate future. As for down the line... well that's up to interpretation and that's what some people find fun about Control. Because as many ways as things could go wrong, they could go wonderfully right too and that's interesting.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 23 février 2013 - 12:48 .

[Ryoten]

McFlurry598 wrote...

The ending *whine whine whine* I hate Bioware for life
Its been an entire YEAR, get over it already, you don't want the DLC? Don't ****ing buy it

This is America.  I'll do what i want.  Want to fight about it?

[The Night Mammoth]

PainCakesx wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

The ending *whine whine whine* I hate Bioware for life
Its been an entire YEAR, get over it already, you don't want the DLC? Don't ****ing buy it

Don't like it, don't read the thread. 

That's too difficult a concept for some people to grasp, unfortunately. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 23 février 2013 - 12:48 .

[PainCakesx]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...
So a clone with your memories would be you? Even if it lived at the same time than you?

All we are is our brains. If someone makes an identical copy of every neuron and protein in my brain, that resulting copy is in every way "me". It will think like me, do what I would do, and be in every way that matters me.

I mean, we can sit here and debate about a "soul" and what the essence of what makes me really "me", but that's really outside the scope of this argument. Needless to say if my Shepard was uploaded into a Reaper, I have confidence that this version of Shepard will be as awesome as the real Shepard who's body was disintigrated in the process. Except more awesome because now I will be a thousand tons and shoot lazerz from my machine tendrils.

And it's cool about the hostility. It's the interwebz, I don't take offense from anything 

Given the Catalyst's faulty and circular logic, I would have a hard time having confidence in anything he says. <_<

[MegaSovereign]

PainCakesx wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Okay, I guess this isn't really going anywhere.

Nope. The endings are ridiculous and make no sense. Nothing will convince me otherwise, just like how people who love the endings won't likely be convinced otherwise.

Well at least you're acknowledging the fact that there are people who like the endings.

Now take it one step further and you'll realize that perhaps the endings do make sense to those who like it.

I've never heard any argument as to how it makes scientific sense for a ray of green light to genetically alter every living organism at the molecular level. 

I've never heard any argument about how it makes scientific sense that organics can be destructively uploaded to one platform by simply melting them.

It's called fiction. And you certainly don't have to like or even choose synthesis to like the ending. I understand why you don't like the endings even though I don't agree with it so it's baffling how you can't see both sides.

BTW, a number of BSN people have posted their own interpretation of the technobabble behind Synthesis and by extension the Crucible. They ultimately got overshadowed by other threads.

[McFlurry598]

Ryoten wrote...

McFlurry598 wrote...

The ending *whine whine whine* I hate Bioware for life
Its been an entire YEAR, get over it already, you don't want the DLC? Don't ****ing buy it

This is America.  I'll do what i want.  Want to fight about it?

Yes lets fight, over these forums, be here in 20 minutes.

[Eterna]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

But they did take certain feedback into account. They can't please everyone but you can't ignore the fact that feedback did inspire the new hubs and ME1/ME2 cast content.

That´s the problem. They took feedback in what they didn´t care to change. There´s one huge blot in ME, and it´s going to stay. I don´t think they are aware how much they screwed. We´ll know who was right in a couple of years.

Alls I'm hearing is "Waah they didn't isten to me."

Eterna5, I noted some time ago you are the very definition of a blind fanboy (the other word is censored) and from your other interactions in the forum how pointless it is to try and reason with you.

Just start saving for buying 10000 copies of ME4. It´s possible BW will need it. And don´t whine too much if they ever do more than even you can take.

Fascinating. Tell me more. 

[Nerevar-as]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Additionally, there is NO guarentee that ShepAI will never turn on its people given that it's NOT Shepard but simply an imprint of him.

There's no guarantee of anything in any of the endings. That's the thing about the whole Crucible arc... you make this thing to fight the Reapers as a last ditch effort but you never know what it does or if it'll even work, it's just the only chance you have. And sitting at the end all there is is you and the instruction manual saying to push a button and you just have to take it on faith that the Crucible will do what the instruction manual says. For all we know the option for "Destroy" could just cause the Crucible to shoot ice cream at the Reapers. But it doesn't really matter because we've established that the Reapers aren't going to be beaten with conventional military force so... better that than nothing.

But luckily we have the epilogue to tell us straight up that Machine-God Shepard takes the Reapers and helps rebuild everything and then flies away into space and then his/her whole monologue about how she will be a watchful guardian of all the races. So there really isn't much ambiguity as to how it turns out in the immediate future. As for down the line... well that's up to interpretation and that's what some people find fun about Control. Because as many ways as things could go wrong, they could go wonderfully right too and that's interesting.

All the galaxy is looking for a way to turn it off. It´s just human nature, the leaders would never allow someone with such power at their disposal who isn´t part of them, and ShepAIrd isn´t. That´s not negative thinking it´s just the way we are.


ShepAIrd for galactic president?

[Nerevar-as]

Eterna5 wrote...

snip

No, I won´t as there´s no point. Bye.

[McFlurry598]

Eterna5 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

But they did take certain feedback into account. They can't please everyone but you can't ignore the fact that feedback did inspire the new hubs and ME1/ME2 cast content.

That´s the problem. They took feedback in what they didn´t care to change. There´s one huge blot in ME, and it´s going to stay. I don´t think they are aware how much they screwed. We´ll know who was right in a couple of years.

Alls I'm hearing is "Waah they didn't isten to me."

Eterna5, I noted some time ago you are the very definition of a blind fanboy (the other word is censored) and from your other interactions in the forum how pointless it is to try and reason with you.

Just start saving for buying 10000 copies of ME4. It´s possible BW will need it. And don´t whine too much if they ever do more than even you can take.

Fascinating. Tell me more. 

[AlanC9]

PainCakesx wrote...

In terms of Control - education and counselling is a bit different than rewriting a person's brain and personality. I personally would rather die than have all free will removed, becoming little more than a mindless slave to be used at the whim of some supreme overlord. Additionally, there is NO guarentee that ShepAI will never turn on its people given that it's NOT Shepard but simply an imprint of him.

There's no guarantee that Shepard himself won't turn on his people either.

I agree that controlling Reapers is a bit worse than destroying them -- it's the geth heretics all over again, and I prefer destruction there too. But the Reapers are at the back of the line when evaluating morality; if the geth are still around, their interests come first.

[PainCakesx]

MegaSovereign wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Okay, I guess this isn't really going anywhere.

Nope. The endings are ridiculous and make no sense. Nothing will convince me otherwise, just like how people who love the endings won't likely be convinced otherwise.

Well at least you're acknowledging the fact that there are people who like the endings.

Now take it one step further and you'll realize that perhaps the endings do make sense to those who like it.

I've never heard any argument as to how it makes scientific sense for a ray of green light to genetically alter every living organism at the molecular level. 

I've never heard any argument about how it makes scientific sense that organics can be destructively uploaded to one platform by simply melting them.

It's called fiction. And you certainly don't have to like or even choose synthesis to like the ending. I understand why you don't like the endings even though I don't agree with it so it's baffling how you can't see both sides.

BTW, a number of BSN people have posted their own interpretation of the technobabble behind Synthesis and by extension the Crucible. They ultimately got overshadowed by other threads.

Yes, it's science fiction - but it turns into pure fantasy when the boundaries set by teh story are broken. Mass Effect has always had a focus of explaining everything away through real science - and while a lot of it isn't realistic, it's at least plausible.

If this were something like Harry Potter, it'd be more believable within the story. But this isn't Harry Potter.

And I'll agree that control similarily makes no sense. And I've read some of the theories for Synthesis, but I've yet to read one that was actually plausible. If there is one, I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Eterna]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

snip

No, I won´t as there´s no point. Bye.

You're just so intelligent. Everything in my life had no meaning until you used those fingers to type that message. 

Please, bless me with more of your wisdom. 

[SurfaceBeneath]

PainCakesx wrote...
Given the Catalyst's faulty and circular logic, I would have a hard time having confidence in anything he says. <_<

I don't think that the Catalyst has faulty and circular logic. It actually has perfectly consistent logic within the confines of its original programming. It's the original programming that was f'ed up. Turns out its definition of "sanctity of life" stopped at the base genetic code for a life form. And it preserved that sanctifty of life perfectly. Oops!