30 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoon001]

I wish there where less ability spam and more pure fighting.

[Klystron]

Dragoon001 wrote...

The most annoying about stuns, knock backs, overwhelms, grabs, freezes, and this magic imprisonments is they turn an inactive game into a passive experience. I would preferred high damage moves or debuffs instead of all this lockdown attacks.
In a computer game I want to act not damned to do nothing. Games shouldn't give the player a timeout.

I agree, debuffs are much less frustrating than being totally helpless. 

The battle to resist arrest by Ser Cauthrien, with a dozen or so archers using scattershot, comes to mind.  But if I can live long enough to get off Virulent Walking Bomb, it's pretty hilarious. 

edit:  perhaps that battle isn't the best example, since we're supposed to lose it 

But I really dislike binary resists (having most of my spells bounce off a boss, for example) and much prefer having abilities available that can reduce the duration of a stun/paralyze/knockdown or turn them into a debuff. 

Modifié par Klystron, 02 février 2010 - 03:01 .

[chrcol]

its annoying for sure.

my first playthru I was a arcane warrior which gets super high physical and mental resistance so it never happened.

my 2nd playthru I was a dual weapon warrior which I got stun locked a few times but not too excessively.

this playthru I am a archer rogue and I am noticing 3 things.

mages always pick on me even tho my light armor shouldnt attract too much attention I am been specifically targeted whenever a mage is present. I set battle tactics for the AI allies to target mages but they take a while to get to them. mages like to start off stunlocking me and then use attacks that drain my halth with multiple hits, I often fall quickly to 20% or so health with my mage healing me. this playthru I have lower than usual spell resist.

enemy archers and warriors. I try to start the battle with scattershot but I am stunned before it fires so its cancelled, when I try right after the stun wears off I am stunned again. when I stun the enemy it wears off within 1-2 seconds, when I am stunned it lasts for over 5 seconds. bit of a misbalance? the enemies attack my tank with normal attacks but seems as if all debuffs/stuns are targeted at me.

the flaws with what people have said is obvious.

you cant max out all resistances at once, a arcane warrior can get the closest, and a templar can get spell resist up to 100% but thats the best I see possible.

also high defense I am not sure helps on physical stun attacks, when I do get attacked normally they miss a lot yet they never have issues stunning me.

Modifié par chrcol, 12 février 2012 - 11:42 .

[gandanlin]

One suggestion:

Enemy mages tend to target the character that you are controlling, particularly if that character is trying to attack those mages.

So if your strategy is to use Scattershot to stun the mages, put that into a high priority tactics slot for the archer and let him/her run on AI. Control another character, at least until the mage(s) are stunned by the archer. Then switch back to controlling the archer, if you wish.

Arrow of Slaying and Critical Shot can sometimes 'one-shot-kill' a mage. I set Leliana's tactics this way -- as a mage-slayer.

[chrcol]

arrow of slaying good tip except its very near end game I get it. so the other 90% of the game is a problem also the mage will still probably get attacks off as the charge time.

same issue with the mana clash tip as I usually dont get that at all since I prefer other mage spells but if I did its a tier 4 ability so wouldnt be till near end game.

Modifié par chrcol, 15 février 2012 - 08:42 .

[Bhryaen]

chrcol wrote...
this playthru I am a archer rogue and I am noticing 3 things.

mages always pick on me even tho my light armor shouldnt attract too much attention I am been specifically targeted whenever a mage is present. I set battle tactics for the AI allies to target mages but they take a while to get to them. mages like to start off stunlocking me and then use attacks that drain my halth with multiple hits, I often fall quickly to 20% or so health with my mage healing me. this playthru I have lower than usual spell resist.

enemy archers and warriors. I try to start the battle with scattershot but I am stunned before it fires so its cancelled, when I try right after the stun wears off I am stunned again. when I stun the enemy it wears off within 1-2 seconds, when I am stunned it lasts for over 5 seconds. bit of a misbalance? the enemies attack my tank with normal attacks but seems as if all debuffs/stuns are targeted at me.

I may be mistaken, but the default enemy AI in DAO from my experience is fairly overwhelmingly "attack the first/ closest enemy you see." So when you're aware of enemies ahead of time (and for the OP, rogues are also good for the whole scouting ahead thingy) send the tank in ahead of everyone else, ensuring that the mages, archers, melee go after them first. This is even before they use Taunt, and I'll try to lure as many of them around the tank- and get as close to the archers & mages without triggering their fleeing reaction- as possible in order to THEN Taunt the maximum number. The mages may even waste their stun on the tank instead.

Meanwhile your archer can be running into position (not firing). So long as no one attacks in the meantime to draw away "aggro," the tank can be a lure. I've only seen enemies go after my archer or mage specifically AFTER they were damaged by them, so delaying until after the roundup-Taunt of the tank can work wonders. Of course, the tank has to be able to withstand all that assault initially, but that's a tank's job anyway... What chrcol might've been doing is sending in the tank, but firing before the tank struck a single blow, thus becoming the first char to draw damage and thus attracting attention that way. That was happening with Leliana a lot until I started doing what I mentioned above. Now she tends to get away with whatever shot she wants and, like my mage, seldom even receives damage during a full-party fight, much less mage attacks.

Of course, this tactic is of limited use when we get those VERY annoying and not-so-realistic cutscene-start fights where the main character is positioned ridiculously way out in front of everyone, ensuring they'll be the one targeted by whatever enemy is faced. I've had many of those, however, in which I could still run my character back (mages aren't so good when 30 archers and melee warriors attack her first) and get my tank out in front before they target the closest enemy, but it's always a scramble. The Denerim "caught for pickpocketing" and back alley fights are the worst for this...

Another option that sometimes presents itself is the position of an enemy mage (or whatever) at such a distance that you can target them (stealthed or no) without them even seeing you, at least before you fire at them (and sometimes they only notice you when you hit, so you can keep trying). Exploiting this can also allow you to get in your Scattershot before you're stunned/ targetted. There are some places where you can position the rest of the party right at a door entrance, then get your archer back some distance, open the door at an angle or with stealth, fire in the Scattershot unhampered, then send in the party right in on top of the stunned enemies. Your rogue will have to run a ways to get into the battle at that point, however, and of course this is a different combat style than the "run into every battle gungho" style... which I can't help with. I haven't tried an archer main char yet, so I've been content to let Leliana (or Daveth) just use guerilla tactics to whittle down the larger group I'm going after- i.e., not sure I'd be content with that if I were supposed to be the hero...

As to the OP's concerns about DAO "duplicating" WoW and Blizzard, DAO "duplicates" so much from other games as well as movies that the truly unique things about DAO are very few and the experience is an epic hodgepodge. Anyone who's seen "Braveheart" knows where Logain's withdrawl came from, for instance, and the battle scene is right out of the the Helm's Deep battle in LotR.  As to games, I thought DAO was borrowing not from WoW (which I've never played), but from Dungeon Siege (particularly DS2)- with the race of giants (Qunari), the armor set bonuses, the mana system, the ability "tree" acquisition system, the conveyor system travel areas- but I've seen DAO on YouTube playthroughs where the player compares DAO gameplay to yet other games I've not tried myself. DAO uses BG's travel encounter system and some of the aesthetics, NWN1 & 2's DnD "saves" and feats (talents), Witcher's rough edge storylines, etc. The only things I've not seen in other games are the superior head sculpting system at character creation and the creative Fade story explanation for magic with the Chantry and Tower dynamic (though there may very well be equivalents elsewhere for those as well...)

And really any newer game nowadays will be a lot more heavily influenced by established, salient features in other games- i.e., rather than releasing something completely different- if for no other reason than that the wheel was already invented and seems to work. I'd say DAO is at best like an ode to many other games and genres, taking the best from them in a complimentary way... and at worst like outright plagiarism. In either case, you play it if it's enjoyable, whether or not it reminds you of other venues... I like it, so...

Oh, for knockdowns, yeah, Shield Wall for shield tanks, Indominable for 2-handers- great seeing even ogres fail to flatten (though those fighters still get knocked back and thus delayed a bit). For stuns and freezes, I use (spam) them in every variation so excessively myself that it always feels like I'm getting a little taste of my own medicine for once when it actually happens to my own party or character. Usually I neutralize enemies fast enough that they don't have the chance to neutralize me, but enemy archers often seem to get their bloody Scattershot off regardless of what I do. And that's about all they get to do before they die... Stuns and freezes are used by both sides because they're effective against the unprepared, and the advantages they give the wielder are great enough that it makes sense they'd be in the gameworld. Better to do all one can to prevent those impotent moments of being trapped rather than just endure and bemoan it. There are ways to minimize it further with resistences, etc., already discussed...

(And by the way, Stuns go way back to BG's ghouls and vampire wolves whose stunning touch is to be avoided like the plague... more DAO borrowing...)

One thing I haven't explored is whether Cold Damage Reduction also reduces the chance of a freeze or slipping on a Blizzard's ice... Doubtful

Modifié par Bhryaen, 12 mars 2012 - 12:17 .