491 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Also, I'm sure this Witcher discussion is very nice, but it means ****-all to me unless some future game will actually let me play as one of these allegedly powerful women.

[ejoslin]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Yeah, the 'realism' one is an argument I struggle with. There's a contention that there are 'too many' powerful women in the DA universe, which makes it 'unrealistic'. It isn't realistic in the sense of actually trying to represent a Medieval world, and nor is The Witcher. If it was, then both games would feature almost nothing but ugly, underequipped blokes with awful teeth, probably riddled with various diseases, fighting for Gawd knows what imagined slight to the local lord, smacking at each other with swords and dying very quickly, either through being stabbed, trampled by a noble's horse, or pooing themselves to death because they picked up dysentery. Lovely.

I think it's a balancing act tbh. It's when the constant appearance of female warriors and leaders starts feeling out of place that there becomes a problem IMO - especially when they are deemed leaders, but look and act like Isabella. It just doesn't fit together and feels weird.

One huge difference in Thedas -- while the Maker is male, Andraste, whom they worship, is female and was a warrior.  This alone will change the way the entire society views women.

That religious leaders outside of Trevinter are exclusively female will also have an enormous impact.  

[SpunkyMonkey]

Xilizhra wrote...


It doesn't feel weird at all. Isabela has an idiosyncratic style, but it works. Also, most of the female leaders are in civilian positions, and the ratio is heavily skewed by Chantry gender policies.

Did to me I'm afraid. Sorry but I just kept thinking that a woman of her phsyicality wouldn't be able to be on a boat for weeks on end with a group of men without some serious problems. It didn't seem plausable even in a fantasy setting, especially with how promiscuous she was.

ejoslin wrote...

One
huge difference in Thedas -- while the Maker is male, Andraste, whom
they worship, is female and was a warrior.  This alone will change the
way the entire society views women.

That religious leaders outside of Trevinter are exclusively female will also have an enormous impact.  

That's got nothing to do with putting a woman looking like Isabella at sea with a group of non-religious males and expecting it to not end in rape or bloodshed.

As much as I tried to convince myself it could be plausable, every angle I viewed it from seemed weak.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 28 février 2013 - 03:01 .

[ejoslin]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


It doesn't feel weird at all. Isabela has an idiosyncratic style, but it works. Also, most of the female leaders are in civilian positions, and the ratio is heavily skewed by Chantry gender policies.

Did to me I'm afraid. Sorry but I just kept thinking that a woman of her phsyicality wouldn't be able to be on a boat for weeks on end with a group of men without some serious problems. It didn't seem plausable even in a fantasy setting, especially with how promiscuous she was. 

ejoslin wrote...

One
huge difference in Thedas -- while the Maker is male, Andraste, whom 
they worship, is female and was a warrior.  This alone will change the 
way the entire society views women.

That religious leaders outside of Trevinter are exclusively female will also have an enormous impact.  

That's got nothing to do with putting a woman looking like Isabella at sea with a group of non-religious males and expecting it to not end in rape or bloodshed. 

As much as I tried to convince myself it could be plausable, every angle I viewed it from seemed weak. 

Rape is about power and control, not about sexual attraction gone amok. If she commanded respect, there's no reason to think that she would be raped. Contrary to what some people believe, men can go a few weeks without sex. Then when they go ashore, they go to the local **** house.

ETA: Religion has nothing to do with whether someone rapes or not as well.  

Besides, Isabela can fight, and can outfight multiple men.  You see it in both DAO and DA2.  The woman kicks ass.  Her men respect her.  She's not going to be victimized.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 février 2013 - 03:05 .

[Xilizhra]

Did to me I'm afraid. Sorry but I just kept thinking that a woman of her phsyicality wouldn't be able to be on a boat for weeks on end with a group of men without some serious problems. It didn't seem plausable even in a fantasy setting, especially with how promiscuous she was.

She can outfight anyone on it and is a skilled leader to boot. And she was probably relatively selective about crew.

[KnightofPhoenix]

ejoslin wrote...

Rape is about power and control, not about sexual attraction gone amok. If she commanded respect, there's no reason to think that she would be raped. Contrary to what some people believe, men can go a few weeks without sex. Then when they go ashore, they go to the local **** house.

ETA: Religion has nothing to do with whether someone rapes or not as well.

Yep, and from what that guy in the PEarl was saying, it seems Isabela's crew respects her. 
And she probably made individual examples of dissenters. 

Like you said, rape is ultiamtely an expression of power and dominance. People typically are not going to do that to someone they respect and / or fear.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 28 février 2013 - 03:06 .

[Commander Kurt]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

I swore that I wouldn't set foot in this thread (no disrespect OP, it's just me and feminism in gaming..) but it's constantly there, on the first page, mocking me.
I agree that every other soldier/warrior being a woman isn't realistic, women are far too valuable as breeding machines to be allowed such dangerous hobbies. This is, after all, why women were not soldiers/warriors in our reality (or did you think that only the strong men were drafted in medeval times? Ha, funny). Still, I like to escape my reality when playing games and I actually resent the fact that a bunch of not-quite-warrior-material guys get to enact their fantasy while bemoaning that I can have mine due to this not being realistic. Really? Realistic? You're fine with monsters, un-dead, magic, dragons and backpacks that fit 90 broad swords, but women being equal to men is where you draw the line?

*sigh*

I propose a compromise. Kill off most of the men (making them rare, and valuable). Now we can have a fantasy world that makes sense, while still allowing women to not have to deal with the crap of every day life that they are understandably quite fed up with.

Or, you know, suck it up and try to enjoy a fantasy setting where you are not superior to women. Hard as that may be...

Yeah, the 'realism' one is an argument I struggle with. There's a contention that there are 'too many' powerful women in the DA universe, which makes it 'unrealistic'. It isn't realistic in the sense of actually trying to represent a Medieval world, and nor is The Witcher. If it was, then both games would feature almost nothing but ugly, underequipped blokes with awful teeth, probably riddled with various diseases, fighting for Gawd knows what imagined slight to the local lord, smacking at each other with swords and dying very quickly, either through being stabbed, trampled by a noble's horse, or pooing themselves to death because they picked up dysentery. Lovely.

Dysentery - The Game. I'd totally play a semi-realistic, historical RPG by the way (maybe going light on the murder diarrhea though).

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...
Really? Realistic? You're fine with monsters, un-dead, magic, dragons and backpacks that fit 90 broad swords, but women being equal to men is where you draw the line?

"It has dragons!" is still a ****ty argument for anything. Part of the appeal of fantasy worlds is that humans are still humans. If changing human nature at will is fine for fantasy, there's no need for believable characters. Humans psychology is simply different there, why should they act in a way that we find believable?

The argument really isn't that it has dragons, the argument is that pretty much NOTHING is realistic. Women being sidelined in history is not human nature, if it was then we wouldn't see changes in that now, it's purely physical. It has to do with making babies to keep a population stable, for that you need a ton of females and a choice few males.

So which part of the physics of men do you find realistic in DA? Is it the magical healing? Or the lack of PTS? The lack of desease? The number of blows you need to cut down an unarmored opponent? Perhaps it's the fantastical talents you can learn?

"It has dragons!" is a ****ty argument, but "Realism!" is a mighty fine one. Obviously.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Commander Kurt wrote...
The argument really isn't that it has dragons, the argument is that pretty much NOTHING is realistic. Women being sidelined in history is not human nature, if it was then we wouldn't see changes in that now, it's purely physical. It has to do with making babies to keep a population stable, for that you need a ton of females and a choice few males.

And I was arguing that human nature is one of the things that should be realistic, even if there are other elements that are not realistic. Women being the ones who have children and being physically weaker is part of human nature. Besides, even if you argue that human nature does not have to be realistic, at least the former is true for the Dragon Age universe

Commander Kurt wrote...
The number of blows you need to cut down an unarmored opponent? Perhaps it's the fantastical talents you can learn?

You are confusing the game's mechanics with its lore. In the Dragon Age universe a single dagger is just as deadly as it is in our world.

Commander Kurt wrote...
Is it the magical healing? Or the lack of PTS? The lack of desease?

PTS?

Magic and diseases (or the lack thereof) are part of the setting, the lack of the latter might possibly be explainable by the availability of the former.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 28 février 2013 - 03:43 .

[Uccio]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...
True. And yet most of this is a case of being told it rather than shown it. The only scene I really remember with Philippa specifically is the one where she's naked with Cynthia (Cynthia, right?) , oh and the last bit where she's begging for her life. I understand (and am not offended by) the nature of the scene - but I didn't think it did her character any favours in terms of presenting her as someone who was powerful in general, only as someone who was powerful through sex.

Begged for her life?
She defied Radovid so badly that he was enraged. She NEVER begged. That's what pissed Radovid off, he commanded her to beg for forgiveness and she refused.

We do see Philippa as powerful. She orchestrated the whole alliance between Aedirn and upper Aedirn, which gave Saskia some 200+ professional soldiers. We see her plans with the council and Conclave almost succeeding (just Radovid is better at the game).  EDIT: she most likely caused Saskia's poisoning to begin with and ruthessly manipulated the entire city. Not to mention her being behind most of the game's plot. 

I'm sorry, but I think you need to play the game and pay closer attention. Philippa Eilhart is one of the most powerful and competent characters in the game even in defeat. 

Also that naked scene with Cynthia serves a plot and story purpose. 

Good thing I didn´t save her at the end. She was too smart for her own good.   

[SpunkyMonkey]

ejoslin wrote...

Rape is about power and control, not about sexual attraction gone amok. If she commanded respect, there's no reason to think that she would be raped. Contrary to what some people believe, men can go a few weeks without sex. Then when they go ashore, they go to the local **** house.

ETA: Religion has nothing to do with whether someone rapes or not as well.

Besides, Isabela can fight, and can outfight multiple men. You see it in both DAO and DA2. The woman kicks ass. Her men respect her. She's not going to be victimized.

Seriously? So you're saying that when men get pure animal instinct urges to ravage a woman they are trying to project domance and power over them, not just empty their sack as they are a slave instinct and urges? I could not disagree more and actually find it quite worrying that people would believe such things.

I can't go a few weeks without sex without it affecting me. I'm no rapist, but I get more lustful and hightened after a few days to a week or so without it - I doubt a medival pirate who's very job is to plunder, rape and pillage would have any reservations about forcing themselves on someone regardless of stature. Instinct is instinct and you could put a real life dragon in front of me protecting a roast chicken, but if I've not ate in 5 days I'm going for the chicken regardless of danger! lol.

And as I've said - rape or bloodshed - so what if Isabella can fight off 10 men, it's hardly going to make for workable crew, and is that going to stop them fighting each other for her attention? You'd have a crewfull of horned up sailors away at sea with one, massively breasted and typically attractive woman amongst them all - it would be utter chaos.

It seemed more plausable in DA:O where she wasn't portayed as overtly sexual, and you could see her as more "one of the lads" but in DA:2 it was just out of place and felt weird IMO.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 28 février 2013 - 04:21 .

[Commander Kurt]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...
The argument really isn't that it has dragons, the argument is that pretty much NOTHING is realistic. Women being sidelined in history is not human nature, if it was then we wouldn't see changes in that now, it's purely physical. It has to do with making babies to keep a population stable, for that you need a ton of females and a choice few males.

And I was arguing that human nature is one of the things that should be realistic, even if there are other elements that are not realistic. Women being the ones who have children and being physically weaker is part of human nature. Besides, even if you argue that human nature does not have to be realistic, at least the former is true for the Dragon Age universe

Commander Kurt wrote...
The number of blows you need to cut down an unarmored opponent? Perhaps it's the fantastical talents you can learn?

You are confusing the game's mechanics with its lore. In the Dragon Age universe a single dagger is just as deadly as it is in our world.

Commander Kurt wrote...
Is it the magical healing? Or the lack of PTS? The lack of desease?

PTS?

Magic and diseases (or the lack thereof) are part of the setting, the lack of the latter might possibly be explainable by the availability of the former.

I'm not trying to be flippant (in this post, maybe a bit in the previous ones), but now you've got me confused. You cite game mechanic's and setting as excuses for human nature not applying to men, but game mechanic's and setting is not a reason for human nature to not apply to women? Uh... Why?

PTS is short for post traumatic stress (layman's term).

[Xilizhra]

Seriously? So you're saying that when men get pure animal instinct urges to ravage a woman they are trying to project domance and power over them, not just empty their sack as they are a slave instinct and urges? I could not disagree more and actually find it quite worrying that people would believe such things.

Yes, unless you believe that men are subhuman animals who lack physical control over their sexual urges and should perhaps be locked up for their own good and women's. Which, I don't know, maybe you do.

I can't go a few weeks without sex without it affecting me. I'm no rapist, but I get more lustful and hightened after a few days to a week or so without it - I doubt a medival pirate who's very job is to plunder, rape and pillage would have any reservations about forcing themselves on someone regardless of stature. Instinct is instinct and you could put a real life dragon in front of me protecting a roast chicken, but if I've not ate in 5 days I'm going for the chicken regardless of danger! lol.

Ah, so you are. Well, not really, because you've actually made our own point: despite your instincts, you're not a rapist, because you're not a complete ****. Presumably Isabela weeds out the ones bad enough to commit rape from her own ship.

And as I've said - rape or bloodshed - so what if Isabella can fight off 10 men, it's hardly going to make for workable crew, and is that going to stop them fighting each other for her attention? You'd have a crewfull of horned up sailors away at sea with one, massively breasted and typically attractive woman amongst them all - it would be utter chaos.

Hah. Perhaps, like the PC, she finds a lot of bisexual crew?

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

Cultural differences can change a hell of a lot, and there are many, many cultural differences in Thedas. Enough, certainly, that I find all gender ratios wholly believable, and find that those who don't are badly overreacting at best.

Really? Despite Theodosians being socially incomparable to irl societies, why are all the rapists, serial killers, evil Magisters and the majority of the bigots depicted as men? Also you'd figure that there would be rampant cases of abuse by the Chantry clergy towards children yet we hear not a peep, on the flipside it wouldn't be surprising if the Imperial Chantry is  riddled with abuses. Hadrianna is the only Tevinter mage to be given a sob story about her being a product of her environment when the same could be said about her male colleagues who weren't given any such benefit, and remain one dimensional monsters. The Templar Order's ranks consists of men, and women yet only the males are depicted as rapists, and are more intolerant on average.

Of the 3 faction leaders in the Magi Templar conflict, Lord Seeker Lambert a male is depicted as intolerant vs Justinia seeking compromise vs Fiona wanting freedom. Empress Celene seeks improved relations with Ferelden while her male predecessors did no such thing, and now you have Grand Duke Gaspard contesting her rule.

During Merrill's quests it's mostly the males who are shown to be derisive towards her in cutscenes despite it being mentioned that the whole clan feels the same, then in Act 3 you only have one female elf expressing her anger towards Merrill in the cutscene that's after Marethari was killed. 

I can't be the only one who's seeing this?

[SpunkyMonkey]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yes, unless you believe that men are subhuman animals who lack physical control over their sexual urges and should perhaps be locked up for their own good and women's. Which, I don't know, maybe you do.

Ah, so you are. Well, not really, because you've actually made our own point: despite your instincts, you're not a rapist, because you're not a complete ****. Presumably Isabela weeds out the ones bad enough to commit rape from her own ship.

Hah. Perhaps, like the PC, she finds a lot of bisexual crew?

But put it in context with what I was originally saying - that it felt out of place and odd. It's not that all men are like that, it's that Pirates, both in fantasy and reality, are EXCACTLY like that.

Who takes up a career murdering, plundering, and stealing to then take a moral stance when it comes to rape? lol.

Lol, perhaps she does. But like I say, it just doesn'y paint a plausable or believeable overall picture, and I can't see many bisexual men or women opting for the pirate trade tbh lol. Just my opinion, but I thought Isabella's character didn't do women any favours and should have been a lot less sexualized.

For me she embodies Laidlaw's "hey, that's cool! let's put that in there despite it's context, feel or overall vibe!" approach to DA:2, and I just hope she never returns in the same capacity.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 28 février 2013 - 04:37 .

[Xilizhra]

Really? Despite Theodosians being socially incomparable to irl societies, why are all the rapists, serial killers, evil Magisters and the majority of the bigots depicted as men?

We already established this as false the last time you spewed it; ratios may be offcenter, but there are women in all of those roles. And in terms of serial killers, the Baroness was much worse than Quentin. Even with rapists, Jarvia heavily implies that she intends to be one with a female Warden.

Also you'd figure that there would be rampant cases of abuse by the Chantry clergy towards children yet we hear not a peep, on the flipside it wouldn't be surprising if the Imperial Chantry is riddled with abuses.

Utter conjecture on both sides, as... we haven't heard of child abuse going on in either one. Although to be frank, I consider raising children as templars to be inherently abusive in its own right.

Hadrianna is the only Tevinter mage to be given a sob story about her being a product of her environment when the same could be said about her male colleagues who weren't given any such benefit, and remain one dimensional monsters.

Danarius is the only other magister we know of in detail. Caladrius we know nothing about, and in any case he has a speaking counterpart in that one Tevinter elf guard (she's not a magister, but is on their side and has the same morality or lack thereof).

The Templar Order's ranks consists of men, and women yet only the males are depicted as rapists, and are more intolerant on average.

You're forgetting Meredith?

Of the 3 faction leaders in the Magi Templar conflict, Lord Seeker Lambert a male is depicted as intolerant vs Justinia seeking compromise vs Fiona wanting freedom. Empress Celene seeks improved relations with Ferelden while her male predecessors did no such thing, and now you have Grand Duke Gaspard contesting her rule.

Again. You're forgetting Meredith?

During Merrill's quests it's mostly the males who are shown to be derisive towards her in cutscenes despite it being mentioned that the whole clan feels the same, then in Act 3 you only have one female elf expressing her anger towards Merrill in the cutscene that's after Marethari was killed.

And yet it's Marethari who's the traitorous abomination **** who tries to murder Merrill. This holds no water.

I can't be the only one who's seeing this?

I hope you are.

Who takes up a career murdering, plundering, and stealing to then take a moral stance when it comes to rape? lol.

There's a reason why, IIRC, rapists aren't generally put into general prison populations.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 28 février 2013 - 04:37 .

[Commander Kurt]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Seriously? So you're saying that when men get pure animal instinct urges to ravage a woman they are trying to project domance and power over them, not just empty their sack as they are a slave instinct and urges? I could not disagree more and actually find it quite worrying that people would believe such things.

I can't go a few weeks without sex without it affecting me. I'm no rapist, but I get more lustful and hightened after a few days to a week or so without it - I doubt a medival pirate who's very job is to plunder, rape and pillage would have any reservations about forcing themselves on someone regardless of stature. Instinct is instinct and you could put a real life dragon in front of me protecting a roast chicken, but if I've not ate in 5 days I'm going for the chicken regardless of danger! lol.

And as I've said - rape or bloodshed - so what if Isabella can fight off 10 men, it's hardly going to make for workable crew, and is that going to stop them fighting each other for her attention? You'd have a crewfull of horned up sailors away at sea with one, massively breasted and typically attractive woman amongst them all - if they weren't fighting her they would be each other as they long for her attention - it would be utter chaos.

It seemed more plausable in DA:O where she wasn't portayed as overtly sexual, and you could see her as more "one of the lads" but in DA:2 it was just out of place and felt weird IMO.

Soooo... How does your body know if your sack has been emptied by a woman or by yourself? Is it a psychological need more than a physical one?

I'm sorry, I just find this interesting. Also, the neccessary component in rape is that the man feels he has a right to the woman. As you state, you are no rapist and yet you have the same biological urges as a medival pirate. Men can choose not to act on a physical advantage, and, in the DA setting, they don't even have that. To use your example with the dragon, people are actually starving to death despite there being food close by. I wouldn't engage the dragon. I would wait and hope (and probably die). Most people would.

[Zkyire]

So.. rape discussions again.

I was going to chime back into the discussion but.. no, not anymore.

[Commander Kurt]

The Hierophant wrote...

I can't be the only one who's seeing this?

I think there's a point hidden in all this. It's not as bad as you make it out to be (DA is by no means a farytale where women are innocent), but there is still a sense of "male-crime" and "female-crime" that I think they could do away with. Of course, then you'd have a bunch of people crying "Realism!", but I suspect you're fine with that. I know I am.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Commander Kurt wrote...
I'm not trying to be flippant (in this post, maybe a bit in the previous ones), but now you've got me confused. You cite game mechanic's and setting as excuses for human nature not applying to men, but game mechanic's and setting is not a reason for human nature to not apply to women? Uh... Why?

No. Where did you read that?

I cite the game's mechanics as not depicting Dragon Age lore accurately. What happens on screen is a playable representation of the game's reality, it can not be seen as what is actually happening. A dagger to the heart is deadly in Thedas, the fact that gameplay mechanics do not reflect this does not change that.

We're talking lore, not mechanics.

I do not see what magic has to do with human nature not applying to anyone.

[Sutekh]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Seriously? So you're saying that when men get pure animal instinct urges to ravage a woman they are trying to project domance and power over them, not just empty their sack as they are a slave instinct and urges? I could not disagree more and actually find it quite worrying that people would believe such things.

It's a common belief among psychiatrists, sociologists, anthropologists, law enforcement, medical staff and overall everyone being in contact with it professionally, or studying it.

I'm no psychiatrist, so here's some links:

http://en.wikipedia....sexual_violence
www.rapecrisis.org.uk/whymythsexist2.php
ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx

Anyway, in this case (medieval-ish culture, men on a ship etc...) where today's psycho-sociolology isn't quite applicable, I'll wager that if the woman surrounded by men is herself in a position of power, then men around her would refrain and use their self-control not to give in to those urges (after all, you said it yourself, you're not a rapist, so it is controllable). Think of the number of times a queen was on the field surrounded by her own army. So it's not far-fetched that Isabela, being the captain (sole master on board), would be considered completely off-limits. Much like Asha in ASoIaF, surrounded by men who otherwise rape and plunder almost professionally.

(Also, DAO's Isabela was as overtly sexual as DA2's. There's no personality change, they're absolutely the same person.)

[The Hierophant]

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...

[quote]Really? Despite Theodosians being socially incomparable to irl societies, why are all the rapists, serial killers, evil Magisters and the majority of the bigots depicted as men?[/quote]
We already established this as false the last time you spewed it; ratios may be offcenter, but there are women in all of those roles. And in terms of serial killers, the Baroness was much worse than Quentin. Even with rapists, Jarvia heavily implies that she intends to be one with a female Warden.[/quote]
I responded to your post as it was only a list female antagonists, and they weren't typecasted into villainous roles the way males were like rapists or serial killers. Excluding her using magic to trap the villager's souls in the Fade, how is the Baroness a worse serial killer than Quentin who cut countless women to pieces, and Keldar who brutalized elven chidren? Plus did Jarvia sexually assault the female warden?
[quote]
[quote]Also you'd figure that there would be rampant cases of abuse by the Chantry clergy towards children yet we hear not a peep, on the flipside it wouldn't be surprising if the Imperial Chantry is riddled with abuses.[/quote]
Utter conjecture on both sides, as... we haven't heard of child abuse going on in either one. Although to be frank, I consider raising children as templars to be inherently abusive in its own right.[/quote]Yeah it's conjecture on my part about the Imperial Chantry, yet it's telling that we have yet to hear of any casses of assault by members of a female dominated clergy.


[quote]
[quote]Hadrianna is the only Tevinter mage to be given a sob story about her being a product of her environment when the same could be said about her male colleagues who weren't given any such benefit, and remain one dimensional monsters.[/quote]
Danarius is the only other magister we know of in detail. Caladrius we know nothing about, and in any case he has a speaking counterpart in that one Tevinter elf guard (she's not a magister, but is on their side and has the same morality or lack thereof).[quote]Hadriana is given the Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer story by Orana to the pc, whereas magisters like Danarius, Caladrius, Titus(comic), Corypheus lack any such treatment even after death. Now toss in Maevaris(married Varric's cousin) being helpful to Varric and co in contrast to Titus the antagonist.
[quote]
[quote]The Templar Order's ranks consists of men, and women yet only the males are depicted as rapists, and are more intolerant on average.[/quote]
You're forgetting Meredith?[/quote]Who spent ten years as KC of Kirkwall with no mention of abuse before the lyrium idol was sold to her? Now contrast her to Karras, Alrik who even she disagreed with his plan, Ser Mettin, pre Act 3 Cullen, and Lambert her superior.  All of them unfortunately lacked the lyrium idol to warp their minds.
[quote]
[quote]Of the 3 faction leaders in the Magi Templar conflict, Lord Seeker Lambert a male is depicted as intolerant vs Justinia seeking compromise vs Fiona wanting freedom. Empress Celene seeks improved relations with Ferelden while her male predecessors did no such thing, and now you have Grand Duke Gaspard contesting her rule.[/quote]
Again. You're forgetting Meredith?[/quote]Same as the above and Lambert is her superior.
[quote]
[quote]During Merrill's quests it's mostly the males who are shown to be derisive towards her in cutscenes despite it being mentioned that the whole clan feels the same, then in Act 3 you only have one female elf expressing her anger towards Merrill in the cutscene that's after Marethari was killed. [/quote]
And yet it's Marethari who's the traitorous abomination **** who tries to murder Merrill. This holds no water.[/quote]
Who's were described out of love for Merrill.(shoddy writing) Please explain why most of  hostility is depicted through Ilen, Pol's reaction, the hunter on Sundermount during the  first visit, and the male dominated lynch mob at act3?
[/quote]
[quote]I can't be the only one who's seeing this?[/quote]
I hope you are.[/quote]
It's probably the lyrium idol.<shrugs>

[Xilizhra]

I responded to your post as it was only a list female antagonists, and they weren't typecasted into villainous roles the way males were like rapists or serial killers. Excluding her using magic to trap the villager's souls in the Fade, how is the Baroness a worse serial killer than Quentin who cut countless women to pieces, and Keldar who brutalized elven chidren? Plus did Jarvia sexually assault the female warden?

The Baroness murdered many villagers in blood magic rituals to maintain her own youth. And Jarvia, well, didn't succeed in sexually assaulting the female Warden, but Alrik didn't succeed in raping Ella as well.

Yeah it's conjecture on my part about the Imperial Chantry, yet it's telling that we have yet to hear of any casses of assault by members of a female dominated clergy.

Or, here's a shock, maybe Bioware just doesn't want to ****** off Catholics by making what would definitely be seen as cheap shots based on actual IRL scandals? I don't even like the Catholic Church and I'd see that as being in poor taste.

Hadriana is given the Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer story by Orana to the pc, whereas magisters like Danarius, Caladrius, Titus(comic), Corypheus lack any such treatment even after death. Now toss in Maevaris(married Varric's cousin) being helpful to Varric and co in contrast to Titus the antagonist.

Comic canon I'm unfamiliar with, and I've never heard Orana talk about that.

Who spent ten years as KC of Kirkwall with no mention of abuse before the lyrium idol was sold to her? Now contrast her to Karras, Alrik who even she disagreed with his plan, Ser Mettin, pre Act 3 Cullen, and Lambert her superior. All of them unfortunately lacked the lyrium idol to warp their minds.

No mention? She was a brutal tyrant the whole way through, the idol just made her worse.

Who's were described out of love for Merrill.(shoddy writing) Please explain why most of hostility is depicted through Ilen, Pol's reaction, the hunter on Sundermount during the first visit, and the male dominated lynch mob at act3?

Described by an abomination, which people seem surprisingly quick to trust. Also, Ilen had been previously established as the craftmaster in DAO, as a male. Pol had also been established as male as the only city elf convert to the Dalish, which was its own plot point, and the lynch mob included the whole clan. That one obnoxious hunter was alone.

[The Hierophant]

Commander Kurt wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

I can't be the only one who's seeing this?

I think there's a point hidden in all this. It's not as bad as you make it out to be (DA is by no means a farytale where women are innocent), but there is still a sense of "male-crime" and "female-crime" that I think they could do away with. Of course, then you'd have a bunch of people crying "Realism!", but I suspect you're fine with that. I know I am.

To me "Realism" is subjective in a fantasy setting, whereas consistency is more important to me in high fantasy settings. My issue is not with women being as strong as men, having influence or being victims but the writing staff using irl crime rates/social issues from male dominated socities when Thedas as a whole developed socially in a completely different direction than any irl historical society. 

Modifié par The Hierophant, 28 février 2013 - 06:47 .