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The role of women in the Dragon Age series


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#451
Wolfva2

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Ninja Stan wrote...

If the casual misogyny in this thread isn't curbed, this thread will be locked and bans will be handed out.


So...only formal mysogony is allowed now? <ducking and hiding>

Throughout history there have been women who have risen to leadership positions.  Joan d'arc.  Eleanor of Aquitaine.  Queen Boidiccae.  Cleopatra (although in the end she made an asp of herself...).  As well as others.  These women were as different from the average woman as Gengis Khan, Ceasar, Africanus, Scippio, Hannibal, etc were from average men.  And much rarer then their male counterparts.

If you look at Isabella's actions and mannerisms, she's actually a guy.  She drinks with the guys.  Gambles with the guys. FIghts with the guys.  Probably goes wenching with them as well.  She's just one of the guys.  Albeit with a rack to die for...one that would look out of place if she had a beard.  Her men can respect her because she's just one of them.  Except for a difference in plumbing, they're the same.   If she was a delicate feminine flower, clutching at her bodice and saying, "Why, I DO decleah!  This violence is so upsetting I am getting the vapahs! <swoon>"  her men would not respect her.

#452
SpunkyMonkey

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Wolfva2 wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

If the casual misogyny in this thread isn't curbed, this thread will be locked and bans will be handed out.


So...only formal mysogony is allowed now? <ducking and hiding>

Throughout history there have been women who have risen to leadership positions.  Joan d'arc.  Eleanor of Aquitaine.  Queen Boidiccae.  Cleopatra (although in the end she made an asp of herself...).  As well as others.  These women were as different from the average woman as Gengis Khan, Ceasar, Africanus, Scippio, Hannibal, etc were from average men.  And much rarer then their male counterparts.

If you look at Isabella's actions and mannerisms, she's actually a guy.  She drinks with the guys.  Gambles with the guys. FIghts with the guys.  Probably goes wenching with them as well.  She's just one of the guys.  Albeit with a rack to die for...one that would look out of place if she had a beard.  Her men can respect her because she's just one of them.  Except for a difference in plumbing, they're the same.   If she was a delicate feminine flower, clutching at her bodice and saying, "Why, I DO decleah!  This violence is so upsetting I am getting the vapahs! <swoon>"  her men would not respect her.



Sorry, last, last post - that kinda sums up my whole point - I think you'd struggle to class her as "one of the guys" looking like that and in an environment where you would be away at sea from weeks/months.

But that's me done on it all now for my own forum access lol.

#453
Wolfva2

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To be honest, I don't think a real life Isabella would dress like that. Especially in the cold, wet clime of Ferelden. Even more so on a ship with the wind constantly blowing wet spray over the deck. There's a reason sailors wore wool and canvas. Wool because it's warm even when wet, canvas because it was cheap and plentiful. But hey, it's a game. Gotta expect a little artistic license. Besides, unless Thedas has sports bras her headlights would be drooping past her belly button. Not to mention what salt, sea and wind does to one's face hands and hair! A couple of years of that, and even Hawke would be eying up a manatee as preferable to Isabella!

#454
imbs

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to be fair we never see her on a boat ;)

#455
Sutekh

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imbs wrote...

to be fair we never see her on a boat ;)

We do in the comics.

Yeah, I know, it's not in-game, it doesn't count and all that jazz, but still it gives a pretty good view on her interaction with her crew.

#456
SpunkyMonkey

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Wolfva2 wrote...

To be honest, I don't think a real life Isabella would dress like that. Especially in the cold, wet clime of Ferelden. Even more so on a ship with the wind constantly blowing wet spray over the deck. There's a reason sailors wore wool and canvas. Wool because it's warm even when wet, canvas because it was cheap and plentiful. But hey, it's a game. Gotta expect a little artistic license. Besides, unless Thedas has sports bras her headlights would be drooping past her belly button. Not to mention what salt, sea and wind does to one's face hands and hair! A couple of years of that, and even Hawke would be eying up a manatee as preferable to Isabella!


Agreed. That expands on this point and one I've made about DA:2 in general - the contradiction of basing a less grandure story and going for a "survive in the city" feel, in a world with such OTT combat, outlandish art styles and where fake boob implants are issues by perscription to all women at birth.

I need to be either sucked into a world of fantastical adventure where I can believe anything is possible - where we largely ignore politics and are off fighting "wow" creatures etc., and which sets my mindset not to question the plausability of such things such as Isabella - or I need a more reality based setting which deals with the underbelly of a city like Kirkwall, and such side servings such as pirates, but does it believably.

DA:2's contradictory approach to it all just doesn't sit well with me, makes it hard to get in to, and Isabella is a good example of that contradiction IMO.

that's it - Last, last, last post - I promise :)

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 01 mars 2013 - 10:43 .


#457
ejoslin

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SpunkyMonkey wrote...

As you say IF they respected her. Again I just don't buy it because of the contradictory standards. How many working male-female friendships do you know of that exist amongst theives, murderers, and rapists? Remember these are pirates - not people who sit down and watch friends together over a tub of popcorn lol. These are people who's very job means hurting, killing and robbing people. People who's jobs are made easier the more fearful their reputation is. 

I know she kicks a few bums in the game, not least when you first meet her in DA:2, and she undoubtably is a bit of a badass, but it's still a far cry from slapping a few "land-lubbers" to being able to maintain order amongst a group of people who's very job is to be as evil and feared as possible, especially when she bares as much flesh as she does.

Just take a look at the famed female Chinease pirate Ching Shih - the older pictures of her have her dressed very man-like with little flesh showing and certainly no rediculously low cut tops. Isabella just needs to be curbed overall IMO, she either needs to become an on-land buxom baddass (who knows a crew conflict could nicely explain that) or a less sexual (image-wise definitely) captain.

Anyway, as I've said this has to be my last comment on it really due to the moderator's ban hammer hovering. Really enjoyed yours and some of the other posters counter points, thanks for taking the time to post - same to the others who have posted too.


Well, don't get banned, but I did want to respond to this.  See, I think my problem is you keep saying that no one would respect her.  In truth, YOU may not respect a woman who looked like her, but that doesn't universally apply to all men.  Other men -- men she would hire -- would be more swayed by her ability, demeanor, and charisma, and if she judged incorrectly and hired one who did nothing but try to get with her, she would deal with it harshly and immediately.  

In truth, I don't like Isabela's outfit (I think it is pandering -- I also didn't like the picture I saw of the witch in the wild in the comic wearing a thong and corset), but I don't see it as impossible that a sexy, beautiful woman could lead a group of men and keep them in line.  I certainly don't see it impossible for men to respect a woman who is sexy.  I have a lot of male friends and a husband, and how sexy a woman is doesn't really play into respect.  In fact, quite the opposite.  One may find a woman sexy and want to get with her, but if he finds her to be a really cool person as well, he may want something quite different.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2013 - 11:41 .


#458
Commander Kurt

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ejoslin wrote...

Well, don't get banned, but I did want to respond to this.  See, I think my problem is you keep saying that no one would respect her.  In truth, YOU may not respect a woman who looked like her, but that doesn't universally apply to all men.  Other men -- men she would hire -- would be more swayed by her ability, demeanor, and charisma, and if she judged incorrectly and hired one who did nothing but try to get with her, she would deal with it harshly and immediately.  

In truth, I don't like Isabela's outfit (I think it is pandering -- I also didn't like the picture I saw of the witch in the wild in the comic wearing a thong and corset), but I don't see it as impossible that a sexy, beautiful woman could lead a group of men and keep them in line.  I certainly don't see it impossible for men to respect a woman who is sexy.  I have a lot of male friends and a husband, and how sexy a woman is doesn't really play into respect.  In fact, quite the opposite.  One may find a woman sexy and want to get with her, but if he finds her to be a really cool person as well, he may want something quite different.


I have to say though, and this is all just a poor excuse to call myself sexy mind you, that alcohol should probably be banned from the ship for this to work. I run a small construction company where all the guys are perfect gentlemen who respect my every word during office hours. Company parties, however, can get pretty damn hairy.

#459
ejoslin

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Commander Kurt wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Well, don't get banned, but I did want to respond to this.  See, I think my problem is you keep saying that no one would respect her.  In truth, YOU may not respect a woman who looked like her, but that doesn't universally apply to all men.  Other men -- men she would hire -- would be more swayed by her ability, demeanor, and charisma, and if she judged incorrectly and hired one who did nothing but try to get with her, she would deal with it harshly and immediately.  

In truth, I don't like Isabela's outfit (I think it is pandering -- I also didn't like the picture I saw of the witch in the wild in the comic wearing a thong and corset), but I don't see it as impossible that a sexy, beautiful woman could lead a group of men and keep them in line.  I certainly don't see it impossible for men to respect a woman who is sexy.  I have a lot of male friends and a husband, and how sexy a woman is doesn't really play into respect.  In fact, quite the opposite.  One may find a woman sexy and want to get with her, but if he finds her to be a really cool person as well, he may want something quite different.


I have to say though, and this is all just a poor excuse to call myself sexy mind you, that alcohol should probably be banned from the ship for this to work. I run a small construction company where all the guys are perfect gentlemen who respect my every word during office hours. Company parties, however, can get pretty damn hairy.


But it's also a different situation.  A ship's captain has an absolute authority that you don't replicate in a work enviornment.  And the issue stated was not flirting or saying obnoxious things -- it was rape.

ETA: My best friend is a man -- we've been best friends going on 30 years now.  Sex does not enter into our friendship at all.  We've gotten drunk together, partied together -- he's pretty damn sexy too, and I suppose I would be considered attractive as well.  However, sex is just not part of the equation when it comes to us.  

Or here's a situation that more men could relate to -- your best friend's wife.  No matter how hot she is, MOST men would not hit on her (there are a few who would, but women generally think of guys like that as creeps -- men like that are the exception, not the rule).  

For most men, there are women who are off limits for a variety of reasons.  This often has absolutely nothing to do with attractiveness.  There are other factors involved, including social standing, personality, authority.

Also, there are men who can accept a woman's authority better than others.  There are men in this world who are resentful of women in authority, and who would do their best to reduce women who wield it and would never accept it.  However, that doesn't make a woman in authority helpless -- in Isabela's case, since she has absolute authority over who is on her ship and who isn't, she would have to be careful NOT to hire a man like that, and if she did, she would have to remove him and quite likely make an example of him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2013 - 02:46 .


#460
Emzamination

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Ninja Stan wrote...

If the casual misogyny in this thread isn't curbed, this thread will be locked and bans will be handed out.


Ninja stan modding like a boss :P I wish there was a mod of the year award. :D

#461
Commander Kurt

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ejoslin wrote...

But it's also a different situation.  A ship's captain has an absolute authority that you don't replicate in a work enviornment.  And the issue stated was not flirting or saying obnoxious things -- it was rape.

ETA: My best friend is a man -- we've been best friends going on 30 years now.  Sex does not enter into our friendship at all.  We've gotten drunk together, partied together -- he's pretty damn sexy too, and I suppose I would be considered attractive as well.  However, sex is just not part of the equation when it comes to us.  

Or here's a situation that more men could relate to -- your best friend's wife.  No matter how hot she is, MOST men would not hit on her (there are a few who would, but women generally think of guys like that as creeps -- men like that are the exception, not the rule).  

For most men, there are women who are off limits for a variety of reasons.  This often has absolutely nothing to do with attractiveness.  There are other factors involved, including social standing, personality, authority.

Also, there are men who can accept a woman's authority better than others.  There are men in this world who are resentful of women in authority, and who would do their best to reduce women who wield it and would never accept it.  However, that doesn't make a woman in authority helpless -- in Isabela's case, since she has absolute authority over who is on her ship and who isn't, she would have to be careful NOT to hire a man like that, and if she did, she would have to remove him and quite likely make an example of him.


Yeah, of course you're right. It is different, and yet in some ways it isn't. I'm never afraid of rape even when alcohol is involved, and Isabella even less I would imagine. However, one woman and several men mixed with alcohol and isolation. It can very easily get out of hand. If I were in her shoes, I would really bann alcohol onboard.

I am only talking about when alcohol is present, and the fact that booze affects the brain is not really a widely debated issue. :unsure:

#462
Degs29

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ejoslin wrote...
Well, don't get banned, but I did want to respond to this.  See, I think my problem is you keep saying that no one would respect her.  In truth, YOU may not respect a woman who looked like her, but that doesn't universally apply to all men.  Other men -- men she would hire -- would be more swayed by her ability, demeanor, and charisma, and if she judged incorrectly and hired one who did nothing but try to get with her, she would deal with it harshly and immediately.  

In truth, I don't like Isabela's outfit (I think it is pandering -- I also didn't like the picture I saw of the witch in the wild in the comic wearing a thong and corset), but I don't see it as impossible that a sexy, beautiful woman could lead a group of men and keep them in line.  I certainly don't see it impossible for men to respect a woman who is sexy.  I have a lot of male friends and a husband, and how sexy a woman is doesn't really play into respect.  In fact, quite the opposite.  One may find a woman sexy and want to get with her, but if he finds her to be a really cool person as well, he may want something quite different.


I agree with that wholeheartedly.  Contrary to what wolfva2 was saying, I don't think a girl needs to act like "one of the guys" to be respected by men.  Nor do I think seeing a woman as a target of sexual desire excludes her other qualities.  Frankly, I think that for anyone who thinks it DOES, they themselves are the problem.  As I said earlier, painting all women as nothing more than sexual gratification for men is wrong.  Yet, it seems like being intentionally over-sensitive to believe this is what is happening in DA games.

#463
ejoslin

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Commander Kurt wrote...

Yeah, of course you're right. It is different, and yet in some ways it isn't. I'm never afraid of rape even when alcohol is involved, and Isabella even less I would imagine. However, one woman and several men mixed with alcohol and isolation. It can very easily get out of hand. If I were in her shoes, I would really bann alcohol onboard.

I am only talking about when alcohol is present, and the fact that booze affects the brain is not really a widely debated issue. :unsure:


I don't think anyone has ever claimed in this thread that people don't do stupid and sometimes violent things when drunk. That wasn't the issue at all :)  It was more that someone seemed to believe that men auto-rape if horny enough and the woman looks sexy. I agree that having a bunch of drunken men on board would be a bad idea -- not only because of her safety, but the safety of her crew as well.  I would imagine fighting happens, and when you get a bunch of drunks together, more fighting happens.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mars 2013 - 07:28 .


#464
ejoslin

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Degs29 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Well, don't get banned, but I did want to respond to this.  See, I think my problem is you keep saying that no one would respect her.  In truth, YOU may not respect a woman who looked like her, but that doesn't universally apply to all men.  Other men -- men she would hire -- would be more swayed by her ability, demeanor, and charisma, and if she judged incorrectly and hired one who did nothing but try to get with her, she would deal with it harshly and immediately.  

In truth, I don't like Isabela's outfit (I think it is pandering -- I also didn't like the picture I saw of the witch in the wild in the comic wearing a thong and corset), but I don't see it as impossible that a sexy, beautiful woman could lead a group of men and keep them in line.  I certainly don't see it impossible for men to respect a woman who is sexy.  I have a lot of male friends and a husband, and how sexy a woman is doesn't really play into respect.  In fact, quite the opposite.  One may find a woman sexy and want to get with her, but if he finds her to be a really cool person as well, he may want something quite different.


I agree with that wholeheartedly.  Contrary to what wolfva2 was saying, I don't think a girl needs to act like "one of the guys" to be respected by men.  Nor do I think seeing a woman as a target of sexual desire excludes her other qualities.  Frankly, I think that for anyone who thinks it DOES, they themselves are the problem.  As I said earlier, painting all women as nothing more than sexual gratification for men is wrong.  Yet, it seems like being intentionally over-sensitive to believe this is what is happening in DA games.


Yes!  Exactly!  A woman really doesn't have to be "one of the guys" to be respected as a person.  I have always had men who were friends, and I didn't have to be mistaken for or thought of as a guy in order for the friendships to work, and I can guarantee the friendships would not have lasted had I had to deal with them always trying to get into my pants.  And yes, I know there are men who cannot be just friends with a woman they find attractive but this is NOT universal.  Unfortunately, men who actually deal with women as more than objects are often disparaged, but the men I know really don't care about that.  

#465
Commander Kurt

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ejoslin wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

Yeah, of course you're right. It is different, and yet in some ways it isn't. I'm never afraid of rape even when alcohol is involved, and Isabella even less I would imagine. However, one woman and several men mixed with alcohol and isolation. It can very easily get out of hand. If I were in her shoes, I would really bann alcohol onboard.

I am only talking about when alcohol is present, and the fact that booze affects the brain is not really a widely debated issue. :unsure:


I don't think anyone has ever claimed in this thread that people don't do stupid and sometimes violent things when drunk. That wasn't the issue at all :)  It was more that someone seemed to believe that men auto-rape if horny enough and the woman looks sexy. I agree that having a bunch of drunken men on board would be a bad idea -- not only because of her safety, but the safety of her crew as well.  I would imagine fighting happens, and when you get a bunch of drunks together, more fighting happens.


Totally with you on this (and everything you've written, I think). ^_^

#466
Fredward

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SpunkyMonkey wrote...
Not at all chap. Midland-based working class England villages still have a large dose of that culture attached to them, it's not just a personal thing. It's less prevelant in recent years, but definitely 10 years ago people went out to either sleep with someone or start a fight if they didn't - some still do. It's like a local right of passage and those men who don't act as such are often seen as lesser men. Rewind several hundred years to medival times and that mentality was socially encouraged as it made for strong men who grew the local areas. This actually touches on a much larger matter which would be interesting to debate and that's the casual gaming audience and it's relationship to non-academic working people. I'd say that more realistic games have become more prevelant because those playing the games are no longer in their teens, there are now 30y/o + people playing them who have a more realistic outlook on life. But that's another debate lol.

As you say you're a student - an academic - someone who would be more in line with the mage proffession and reliant on education, not someone who I'd expect to behave like a pirate or understand that type of mentality. But I appriciate your POV chap, and thanks for posting it :)



Anyway my last post on it all unfortunately :( Thanks to all for posting and debating :)


I know you said this was your last post (like three times xp) but I just want to say that applying real world realism to Thedas just doesn't work. For whatever reason women in our world have been painted as "lesser" for centuries (I'm looking at you religion) but it's the EXACT opposite in Thedas. For almost a millenium now women have been running the single most powerful organization in Thedas, that is a long ass time. In OUR medieval setting a female in power would be an alien thing, and it is cuz look at how the few that managed to carve out a space are ogled. But in Thedas this is the status quo. I'd argue that Isabela's pirates see her as a sex object as much as most males/females see their bosses today. It's not unheard of but it ain't the norm either and usually only works if the boss is reciprocal, which Isabela has shown she is definitely not.

#467
Solmanian

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ejoslin wrote...

Also, there are men who can accept a woman's authority better than others.  There are men in this world who are resentful of women in authority, and who would do their best to reduce women who wield it and would never accept it.  However, that doesn't make a woman in authority helpless -- in Isabela's case, since she has absolute authority over who is on her ship and who isn't, she would have to be careful NOT to hire a man like that, and if she did, she would have to remove him and quite likely make an example of him.


She's a pirate not an officer in a military. Power in that kind of situation (even if the captain was a man), is an illusion - only valid as long as her crew buy into whatever she's selling. When dealing with cutthroats who will gladly kill people for the cash in their pockets, you can't just walk up and say "allrighty then! I'm in command of this ship because I wear this big hat!".

If you walk into a modern tavern filled with modern pirates and say "Hi! I have a ship. who'se interested in raping and pilaging on the high seas?", they'll likely kill, rape you and take your ship for themselves (if you're lucky, it will be in that order). It's not sekism, most man will not fare much better. It's problematic trying to hire people willing to raid ship and kill their crew, while at the same won't raid your ship and kill your crew. Image IPB

#468
cJohnOne

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Seems like I remember that you had to drink wine because the water was so bad. So It wouldn't make sense not to have drinking on board.

#469
Zkyire

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Solmanian wrote...

She's a pirate not an officer in a military. Power in that kind of situation (even if the captain was a man), is an illusion - only valid as long as her crew buy into whatever she's selling. When dealing with cutthroats who will gladly kill people for the cash in their pockets, you can't just walk up and say "allrighty then! I'm in command of this ship because I wear this big hat!".

If you walk into a modern tavern filled with modern pirates and say "Hi! I have a ship. who'se interested in raping and pilaging on the high seas?", they'll likely kill, rape you and take your ship for themselves (if you're lucky, it will be in that order). It's not sekism, most man will not fare much better. It's problematic trying to hire people willing to raid ship and kill their crew, while at the same won't raid your ship and kill your crew. Image IPB


Dragon Age seems to have taken the Pirates of the Caribbean stance on pirates.

#470
Xilizhra

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cJohnOne wrote...

Seems like I remember that you had to drink wine because the water was so bad. So It wouldn't make sense not to have drinking on board.

Right, but you'd water down the wine to make it last longer and not try to sail a ship while perpetually drunk.

Dragon Age seems to have taken the Pirates of the Caribbean stance on pirates.

Given her being hired by Castillon, she seems to be a seagoing mercenary more than a random raider. Also, piracy in DA is relatively organized under the Feliscisima Armada, or at least isn't completely anarchistic.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 01 mars 2013 - 09:57 .


#471
ejoslin

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Solmanian wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Also, there are men who can accept a woman's authority better than others.  There are men in this world who are resentful of women in authority, and who would do their best to reduce women who wield it and would never accept it.  However, that doesn't make a woman in authority helpless -- in Isabela's case, since she has absolute authority over who is on her ship and who isn't, she would have to be careful NOT to hire a man like that, and if she did, she would have to remove him and quite likely make an example of him.


She's a pirate not an officer in a military. Power in that kind of situation (even if the captain was a man), is an illusion - only valid as long as her crew buy into whatever she's selling. When dealing with cutthroats who will gladly kill people for the cash in their pockets, you can't just walk up and say "allrighty then! I'm in command of this ship because I wear this big hat!".

If you walk into a modern tavern filled with modern pirates and say "Hi! I have a ship. who'se interested in raping and pilaging on the high seas?", they'll likely kill, rape you and take your ship for themselves (if you're lucky, it will be in that order). It's not sekism, most man will not fare much better. It's problematic trying to hire people willing to raid ship and kill their crew, while at the same won't raid your ship and kill your crew. Image IPB


Didn't Isabela inherit her ship?  And the men respected her more than they did her dead husband?  You're talking about a completely different issue than whether a woman can keep control over her crew and ship -- as you point out, getting a crew would be problematic for either gender.

#472
mousestalker

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Historically the pirates in the Caribbean were mostly interested in maximizing reward for minimal risk. If Isabela's voyages are financially successful for the crew and if they are exposed to danger less than under other captains, then they would follow her regardless of any other considerations.

#473
SilentK

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Boiny Bunny wrote...

*snip*

That's a good point - I never really noticed until you pointed that out (just watched a youtube video of it).

I think you'd find though, that this wasn't necessarily a directive issued by the writers however (at least with respect to the non-talking background nobles), and rather, just something the people putting the scene together did without thinking.  Kind of like in DA2, in the scene where Hawke confronts the Arishok just after the Viscount has been beheaded, there are a bunch of Kirkwall nobles standing around the room.  Within the group of nobles, there are at least 2 - 3 exact copies of each unique character model (clothing, facial features, everything!  Unfortunately, hard to un-notice).  Again, something I doubt the writers intended.  The people putting the scene together just didn't think too hard about how it might look, or hoped that nobody would notice.


Ha ha   =)   just thought of this the other day. There are not just twins but identical tripplets as well. Wearing the same clothes and hairdo. And it is not just one group but two I believe, perhaps the qunari interrupted their identical siblings meeting. No really, I also squirm a little when I see these things. If there was one thing different, shirt color or hairdo it would be less noticable. A nice scene apart for that. There are plenty of other scenes where there are specific individuals, like Meredith and Orsinos first fight in Act 3. Wish I could send a internet-cookie to the people who make all the people, "I notice it when you making the people into different individuals, thanks for doing it  <3  !". It just polishes the scene.

Sorry... back to the usual show...

Modifié par SilentK, 01 mars 2013 - 11:06 .


#474
cindercatz

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edit: That always bothers me too. It was even worse in the Funimation thing, which baffled me. You've got whole large crowds of repeating people.. people with Ferelden clothes, in Orlais. I guess they figured it was everywhere in the game, so it must be a conceit of the setting? lol

on the OP topic,
Women in DA are more than equal with men, as has been pointed out. DA's a fairly heavily feminist franchise all-round, with its own lore that sets female leaders right smack in the center of the whole society. Honestly, the female characters, by and large, are stronger characters and are represented better than the male characters.

If anything, they should work to introduce more male characters that are just as strong (not stronger, but as strong) as the female cast. Other than potentially the Warden, Loghain (to a point), Arl Eamon (to a point), and maybe Varric, I can't think of a strong masculine character. Lots of good multi-faceted, interesting characters, but not many that don't make me cringe if they're brought up as good examples of strong male characters. I guess you could throw Nathaniel Howe in there, but then he kind of has to make up for his dad's failings to earn his place. I like them all except Fenris (for his judgementalism, closedmindedness, and basic level of spite, not the 'oh he's emo' reasons people seem to excuse), but there's very little there I can look at and say 'That's a character I admire', or reminds me of myself, or reflects who I want to be. I love Dragon Age, but this is not one of its strengths.

Women on the other hand, you've got every single female companion (yes, Isabela too), you've got the Divine and the high priestesses, you've got Cassandra (who I'm hoping they flesh out beyond this), you've got any number of the secondary npcs who are squarely in this mold, characters that are designed to be strong female figures. These characters are probably the greatest area where the series has really shined. Morrigan, Leliana, Sigrun, Merrill, Aveline.. the list goes on.

Then there's the rest of the gaming landscape, and that's a different matter. I'd argue it's getting better, and that it will continue to do so as more women join the hardcore gaming population, more women work in the field, more women make themselves heard in gaming culture. And I'd argue that big dumb games (and little niche games) that aren't catered to that demographic will also still have a place. The wider the audience, the greater the market, the more fertile tha gaming landscape will be, the greater variety of games we'll see get made and find their audience. There's room for all of us.

mousestalker wrote...

Historically the pirates in the Caribbean were mostly interested in maximizing reward for minimal risk. If Isabela's voyages are financially successful for the crew and if they are exposed to danger less than under other captains, then they would follow her regardless of any other considerations.


That, and she's also a practically known-world renouned badass with an infamous rowdy streak. So not only does she tend to point them to fun and profit, but she'd actually welcome any challenge as another oppurtunity to cement her dominance. She gets in a lot of fights, and she wins those fights. In a dog eat dog world, she's the biggest dog on deck. So if some unlucky crewman were to disrespect her, I imagine he'd very quickly learn otherwise or he'd being 'sleeping with the fishes' or worse, marooned on an island with no pants and very little booze. ;)

Modifié par cindercatz, 01 mars 2013 - 11:58 .


#475
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
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If anything, they should work to introduce more male characters that are just as strong (not stronger, but as strong) as the female cast. Other than potentially the Warden, Loghain (to a point), Arl Eamon (to a point), and maybe Varric, I can't think of a strong masculine character. Lots of good multi-faceted, interesting characters, but not many that don't make me cringe if they're brought up as good examples of strong male characters. I guess you could throw Nathaniel Howe in there, but then he kind of has to make up for his dad's failings to earn his place. I like them all except Fenris (for his judgementalism, closedmindedness, and basic level of spite, not the 'oh he's emo' reasons people seem to excuse), but there's very little there I can look at and say 'That's a character I admire', or reminds me of myself, or reflects who I want to be. I love Dragon Age, but this is not one of its strengths.

I think this has more to do with your personal standards than anything to do with male characters in the DA series.