491 réponses à ce sujet

[mickey111]

In before feminists complain about every real and imagined slight against women in gaming.

[Jean]

I feel like this (older, but still) may also be relevant.

Modifié par Batteries, 23 février 2013 - 01:57 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Despite the obviously trollish nature of the OP which I'm going to ignore, I like how this thread highlights how far ahead DA is on these issues compared to most other games.

I hadn't even thought about the fact that most of the people who hold power in DA 2 are actually women but that's a great observation!

When you look at a character like Isabela, it's very clear why she is in the game, and that is to attract the male audience. Versus Morrigan, who has sex appeal but is clearly not designed to be a sex object.

I think that's a huge disservice to Isabela's character depth. If she was designed to be a sex object, she wouldn't have a personality or character growth beyond making sexual puns and innuendos and portraying herself as promiscuous (and the devs have indicated she's not actually as promiscuous as we think, she's just sexually uh....candid). Isabela is no more a sex object than Zevran was. Just because a woman is sexually open doesn't make her a sex object.

Granted, I'd agree that the character model and art made her an unnecessarily ridiculous looking sex object, especially compared to her appearance in Origins but certainly not the writing of her character itself.

If she were only a sex object, everyone would hate the character. Obviously she has some depth, there has to be. But that doesn't change what I said. The differences of both characters are very apparent, and so are the intentions (on purpose or otherwise) of the character creators and writers.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 23 février 2013 - 01:57 .

[TheBlackAdder13]

Oh for $%#$'s sake, no one, at any point, in this thread or in the article, has said that DA has this problem with women, in fact we've all said the exact opposite. So knock the strawman argument off. It's irritating and I'm becoming more and more irate each time I see someone make a post claiming that's what people are saying when there hasn't been as much as one post stating that DA has issues writing women. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 23 février 2013 - 01:59 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Plaintiff wrote...

Why does a videogame about Star Wars need Jedi?

Does it? What about X-Wing, Star Wars Episode 1 racer and the upcomming Star Wars 1313? I could be proven wrong here but to my knowledge these games dont feature Jedi in any prominent role.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...
It simply falls in line with the idea that women enjoy that type of man and so he's ripe for LI status.

Women dont enjoy that type of man?

[TheBlackAdder13]

If she were only a sex object, everyone would hate the character. Obviously she has some depth, there has to be. But that doesn't change what I said. The differences of both characters are very apparent, and so are the intentions (on purpose or otherwise) of the character creators and writers.

Morrigan is there for the dark ritual/Flemeth plot-arch, which is driven by her debatedly manipulative, shadowy character and her desire for power.

Isabela is there to advance the Qunari plot arc, which is driven by her piratery and selfish instincts for self-preservation and wealth, etc, etc.

They both have their niches in the plot and overall themes -- which is why they were included in the game. I highly doubt the writers though "let's create a sex object to attract male gamers" and then stuck character relevance on her.

The graphic designers on the other hand...

[Danny Boy 7]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Despite the obviously trollish nature of the OP which I'm going to ignore, I like how this thread highlights how far ahead DA is on these issues compared to most other games.

I hadn't even thought about the fact that most of the people who hold power in DA 2 are actually women but that's a great observation!

When you look at a character like Isabela, it's very clear why she is in the game, and that is to attract the male audience. Versus Morrigan, who has sex appeal but is clearly not designed to be a sex object.

I think that's a huge disservice to Isabela's character depth. If she was designed to be a sex object, she wouldn't have a personality or character growth beyond making sexual puns and innuendos and portraying herself as promiscuous (and the devs have indicated she's not actually as promiscuous as we think, she's just sexually uh....candid). Isabela is no more a sex object than Zevran was. Just because a woman is sexually open doesn't make her a sex object.

Granted, I'd agree that the character model and art made her an unnecessarily ridiculous looking sex object, especially compared to her appearance in Origins but certainly not the writing of her character itself.

If she were only a sex object, everyone would hate the character. Obviously she has some depth, there has to be. But that doesn't change what I said. The differences of both characters are very apparent, and so are the intentions (on purpose or otherwise) of the character creators and writers.

Just curious, but what exactly are the differences between Isabela and Morrigan. I mean no offense, but they both could fall into the "sex object" category. I personally don't think either are written with that in mind however, outside of appealing to a man's (or woman's) tastes I think they simply are characters. 

[Dhiro]

This will end well.

[Blazomancer]

I'm fine with the role of women in the DA universe, and I can't see how this is related to DA3 in particular.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Dhiro wrote...

This will end well.

Totally, nobody has given their opinion on Yaoi yet!

[Danny Boy 7]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...
It simply falls in line with the idea that women enjoy that type of man and so he's ripe for LI status.

Women dont enjoy that type of man?

They do, but thats more of a side effect of his character rather than a...conscious choice by Mr. Gaider, Well maybe conscious isn't the right word. He (just like all of the characters) are designed to appeal or revolt  us in some way. If however you think that he was designed to be goofy simply to appeal to women....I dunno if I agree.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...
It simply falls in line with the idea that women enjoy that type of man and so he's ripe for LI status.

Women dont enjoy that type of man?

They do, but thats more of a side effect of his character rather than a...conscious choice by Mr. Gaider, Well maybe conscious isn't the right word. He (just like all of the characters) are designed to appeal or revolt  us in some way. If however you think that he was designed to be goofy simply to appeal to women....I dunno if I agree.

Perhaps I just dont see the value of the character beyond that goal, plus with Alistair being heir to the throne it also ties into that fairytale ending fantasy where the woman is swept off her feet by the handsome prince and becomes Queen.

Edit: unless you are an elf

Modifié par Gandalf-the-Fabulous, 23 février 2013 - 02:21 .

[Iansectcrusher]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Oh for $%#$'s sake, no one, at any point, in this thread or in the article, has said that DA has this problem with women, in fact we've all said the exact opposite. So knock the strawman argument off. It's irritating and I'm becoming more and more irate each time I see someone make a post claiming that's what people are saying when there hasn't been as much as one post stating that DA has issues writing women. 

It's in the dragon age forum, so it's at least implied.

[Danny Boy 7]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...
It simply falls in line with the idea that women enjoy that type of man and so he's ripe for LI status.

Women dont enjoy that type of man?

They do, but thats more of a side effect of his character rather than a...conscious choice by Mr. Gaider, Well maybe conscious isn't the right word. He (just like all of the characters) are designed to appeal or revolt  us in some way. If however you think that he was designed to be goofy simply to appeal to women....I dunno if I agree.

Perhaps I just dont see the value of the character beyond that goal, plus with Alistair being heir to the throne it also ties into that fairytale ending fantasy where the woman is swept off their feet by the handsome prince and becomes Queen.

They can also become his mistress, have him break up with them entirely or even die. That's just the most ideal for an Alistair-mancer.

He's relevant beyond that however, otherwise male characters would completely outstrip his importance. He provides insight into the otherwise secretive Templar Order, he allows for the Grey Wardens to take Ferelden back via political maneuvering and provides the idealistic/buddy companion.

[Milan92]

This thread proves Its definitely saterday again.

[Darth Death]

I don't really think about it, not until a topic like this is made. My mentality concerning DA as a whole in the light of women in power is like a white noise.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

He's relevant beyond that however, otherwise male characters would completely outstrip his importance. He provides insight into the otherwise secretive Templar Order, he allows for the Grey Wardens to take Ferelden back via political maneuvering and provides the idealistic/buddy companion.

Of course, I diddnt mean to imply that he was irrelevant to the plot as he plays a pretty important role being the heir and all, just personality wise. 

[Xilizhra]

Ah, a few more instances of rockheaded stupidity. Of course, Plaintiff has already said everything that really needs to be said on the subject thus far. But if OP, Mr. Egalitarian over here doesn't care about whether or not women are in video games, he should also be fine with them having a more prominent role than they've received thus far, or even having wholly female-dominated games. The blessing of being allegedly gender-blind. One wonders why such a person would make this thread at all.

[Danny Boy 7]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Danny Boy 7 wrote...

He's relevant beyond that however, otherwise male characters would completely outstrip his importance. He provides insight into the otherwise secretive Templar Order, he allows for the Grey Wardens to take Ferelden back via political maneuvering and provides the idealistic/buddy companion.

Of course, I diddnt mean to imply that he was irrelevant to the plot as he plays a pretty important role being the heir and all, just personality wise. 

But...his personality being gruff and hardened is covered by Sten. So I don't understand where the issue is.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

I believe that women are treated with a lot more respect in Dragon Age than they are in the Witcher games and books. I like gender equality in this series, even if some whiners like to complain that "It doesn't accurately depict medieval society." Well, I got news for you folks, it's fantasy, not historical fiction.

I'm fine with George R.R. Martin's depiction of a more traditional medieval society inspired by feudal Europe in A Song of Ice and Fire (a series I suspect Dragon Age draws some degree of inspiration from) since at least there are a number of powerful women in the series to make up for it (Daenerys, Brienne of Tarth, Asha Greyjoy, Arya Stark, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Cersei bat**** insane though she is, Lady Olenna Tyrell, Ygritte; Sansa Stark, who I suspect is on her way to becoming one of those but I won't say more so as to avoid spoilers).

I don't ever want to see anything as juvenile as sex cards in DA.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 23 février 2013 - 02:46 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, a few more instances of rockheaded stupidity. Of course, Plaintiff has already said everything that really needs to be said on the subject thus far. But if OP, Mr. Egalitarian over here doesn't care about whether or not women are in video games, he should also be fine with them having a more prominent role than they've received thus far, or even having wholly female-dominated games. The blessing of being allegedly gender-blind. One wonders why such a person would make this thread at all.

I have no problem with women in videogames nor do I have a problem with women having more prominent roles in videogames, what I do have a problem with is people like Plaintiff or the writer of that article who look for sexism where it doesnt exist and trying to force their ultra feminist views down peoples throats.

Modifié par Gandalf-the-Fabulous, 23 février 2013 - 02:49 .

[billy the squid]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, a few more instances of rockheaded stupidity. Of course, Plaintiff has already said everything that really needs to be said on the subject thus far. But if OP, Mr. Egalitarian over here doesn't care about whether or not women are in video games, he should also be fine with them having a more prominent role than they've received thus far, or even having wholly female-dominated games. The blessing of being allegedly gender-blind. One wonders why such a person would make this thread at all.

Pffft. Really depends on what kind of world Dragon age is trying to represent. If it's going for a High Fantasy, with little bits of more adult content then it can get away with a more egalitarian society, rather than a go for the verisimilitude and try to portray medieval society as it actually was. Patriarchal, nepotistic, and a social hierarchy. It's a fact of life that medieval history was like this, and women who were in a position of power were as ruthless as their male counterparts, but also came under imediate threat and involved in political wrangling due to moves by powerfal men in a patriarchal dominated society to force them from power, for percieved weakness, more so than a man in that position.

Although I don't really get what the OP is getting at either with the all woman writing team, as I don't think they have one. 

[Xilizhra]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, a few more instances of rockheaded stupidity. Of course, Plaintiff has already said everything that really needs to be said on the subject thus far. But if OP, Mr. Egalitarian over here doesn't care about whether or not women are in video games, he should also be fine with them having a more prominent role than they've received thus far, or even having wholly female-dominated games. The blessing of being allegedly gender-blind. One wonders why such a person would make this thread at all.

I have no problem with women in videogames nor do I have a problem with women having more prominent roles in videogames, what I do have a problem with is people like Plaintiff or the writer of that article who look for sexism where it doesnt exist and trying to force their ultra feminist views down peoples throats.

I hardly see how they're forcing views down your throats, given that you don't seem to have even read the article, which doesn't talk about Dragon Age at all. To be sure, women are rather shafted throughout the entirety of the video game industry, and Bioware has made its own mistakes, but they do better than most other companies. Also, sexism doesn't require an active effort, only latent feelings that come out in other things, such as forgetting that women should logically exist in a given world.

Pffft. Really depends on what kind of world Dragon age is trying to
represent. If it's going for a High Fantasy, with little bits of more
adult content then it can get away with a more egalitarian society,
rather than a go for the verisimilitude and try to portray medieval
society as it actually was. Patriarchal, nepotistic, and a social
hierarchy. It's a fact of life that medieval history was like this, and
women who were in a position of power were as ruthless as their male
counterparts, but also came under imediate threat and involved in
political wrangling due to moves by powerfal men in a patriarchal
dominated society to force them from power, for percieved weakness, more
so than a man in that position.

But it's not supposed to be like our own world. The world's Jesus equivalent was a female general. That alone would be a damned huge factor in changing gender relations; men still are basically dominant, but the presence of such a prominent counterexample just means that the dominance is weaker than in our own world.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 février 2013 - 02:53 .

[w0lfam0da1s]

I've never played the games but I've heard that the Aliens games didn't have a woman leading role. That's the main reason I've haven't played the games. It not because I want to see bouncing breast or anything like that.
I'll say it like this... If you take Xena and make it into a game. Then take that game and add a male charater the lead role and not Xena then you loose what Xena was.
It's the same for any leading woman role in a move or book. Once you change that you loose what was so important. What made the book or movie what it was. It's not like Star Track where anyone can be Captain of the Enterprise because the Enterprise remains the Enterprise only the crew changes.
As far as Dragon Age...well I'm glad that they show a woman can have a strong leading role.Even if your an elf or dwarf.
However we are far from being equal in this world. Men for now hold the power still and I for one am glad that the tide is changing.
I have a young daughter and she needs to see that you don't have to be ****** and ass just to get noticed. My daughter likes these games and I'm glad that Dragon Age show that females can have power and become warriors be respected by their male counterpart. Its not perfectly done but they at least try.
It's not just the entertament world that needs to chang. Its everywhere. It's not just allowing females to be in a position of power. We also need to respect them. Allow them the same pay rate as men in the same position. If a male was manager of lets say Toco Bell and a woman who was just as capable if not more so came along and took over his role she would still be paid less. Anyways I've got off trak. What we need is more female roles with out it being sexist. That has to stop. However it will only stop we make the chane along with the rest of thoes who want the change. I just dont see that happening. To many men in power are afraid of change and loosing what they thing makes them a man.