462 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

So in short she is being consulted by a demon like entity her entire live

Eh, that's up for debate. Morrigan says that she's no Abomination, no Demon, and certainly not human. So we can't really call Flemeth a Demon-like entity. All we can do is say that the training she offers Mages is very much atypical and extraordinary -- and it's training the Chantry abhors.

But it's a training that allows Morrigan to see through the Sloth Demon's illusion, something even a senior in the Circle, Wynne, cannot do. The only other person who can do this is Sten, probably because of his strict adherence to the Qun and how he focuses only on the things he needs, maybe, and he still chooses to lose himself in the dream because it's nice to be in the company of his brothers again.

Seems much more effective than the Circle at any rate.

[DKJaigen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

So in short she is being consulted by a demon like entity her entire live

Eh, that's up for debate. Morrigan says that she's no Abomination, no Demon, and certainly not human. So we can't really call Flemeth a Demon-like entity. All we can do is say that the training she offers Mages is very much atypical and extraordinary -- and it's training the Chantry abhors.

WTH is Flemth is a good question. Something the chantrie never botherd to find an answer for. And a more important question: are their more beings like flemeth? The answer is yes, Thats what i dislike about the templar supporters like Lotion and MisterJB : they only see 2 factions mages and templars and ignore everything else. Intelligent darkspawn that capable of defeating both the GW and the legion of the death? no problem! Fenris  that is for all purposes a lyrium created super soldier?  no mention! Cory that  can control darkspawn and  doesnt die wen he posseses a GW? an inconvience!

But free mages? NEEEEEEEEEEERDDDDDDDDRAAAAAGEEEEE .  They really got their priorities messed up and so does the chantry . And what im hearing from the DA3 story line is this mistake is finally going to bite them in the ass. Hazegul has a point their where plenty of a-hole mages in kirkwall and there are some good templars. But any intelligent person that looks upon such a system should immediately dismiss it because after a while its going to implode and the suffering will be tremendous.

Modifié par DKJaigen, 20 mars 2013 - 08:22 .

[Hazegurl]

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Right, I love how Morrigan dismisses demons like they are nothing but crap under her heel. She was one of my favorite DAO characters.

she is my favorite character as well but you forget that she has been trained by being that cannot be considerd human any longer. So in short she is being consulted by a demon like entity her entire live. And that training allows her to **** slap demons. Wynne who is nearly 3 times her senior still falls to a demons tricks. It shows the problems with supporting the templars. your supporting a faction that cannot give the proper training to the mages.

While the road is difficult and dangerous mastering magic can only be done by mastering spirits and demons.




Hazegul has a point their where plenty of a-hole mages in
kirkwall and there are some good templars. But any intelligent person that
looks upon such a system should immediately dismiss it because after a while
its going to implode and the suffering will be tremendous.

There aren't many Flemeths roaming the world willing to teach mages. And considering how weak most of them are would someone like Flemeth bother? Morrigan is her child so she herself is not completely human anyway so she is no ordinary mage. Supporting the Templars or not has no bearings at all on a mages training. A good number of them will always fall to demons, period.

I do agree that the circle system was flawed, it needed a good revamping so that mages could enjoy their freedom yet have a place to turn to learn magic, avoid demons, and so on. The prison should be there to house criminal mages not good people who don't harm anyone. Although, I do wonder just how much freedom do mages truly need to prevent more uprisings in the future. They can't just be allowed to run the streets blasting people with powers whenever a fight breaks out. There needs to be some form of restriction, but would mages even accept it?

Modifié par Hazegurl, 20 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[DKJaigen]

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Right, I love how Morrigan dismisses demons like they are nothing but crap under her heel. She was one of my favorite DAO characters.

she is my favorite character as well but you forget that she has been trained by being that cannot be considerd human any longer. So in short she is being consulted by a demon like entity her entire live. And that training allows her to **** slap demons. Wynne who is nearly 3 times her senior still falls to a demons tricks. It shows the problems with supporting the templars. your supporting a faction that cannot give the proper training to the mages.

While the road is difficult and dangerous mastering magic can only be done by mastering spirits and demons.




Hazegul has a point their where plenty of a-hole mages in
kirkwall and there are some good templars. But any intelligent person that
looks upon such a system should immediately dismiss it because after a while
its going to implode and the suffering will be tremendous.

There aren't many Flemeths roaming the world willing to teach mages. And considering how weak most of them are would someone like Flemeth bother? Morrigan is her child so she herself is not completely human anyway so she is no ordinary mage. Supporting the Templars or not has no bearings at all on a mages training. A good number of them will always fall to demons, period.

I do agree that the circle system was flawed, it needed a good revamping so that mages could enjoy their freedom yet have a place to turn to learn magic, avoid demons, and so on. The prison should be there to house criminal mages not good people who don't harm anyone. Although, I do wonder just how much freedom do mages truly need to prevent more uprisings in the future. They can't just be allowed to run the streets blasting people with powers whenever a fight breaks out. There needs to be some form of restriction, but would mages even accept it?

We have no idea how many mages that have similar power like Flemeth exist but it could be far larger then you realise. Such immortal mages have no use for the chantry or the circle. And likely they have no use for mortal society as well . I think Flemeth would consider the chantry and its followers to be nothing more then blind childeren. I dont think they have any use for the Tevinter imperium. After all for all their power the Tevinter mages can be seen as a failure for not overcoming their mortality.

The best course of action is to turn every mage like Flemeth (with  more friendly disposition) then their will be peace.

[Hazegurl]

But would someone like Flemeth care about mages? Or would waste time teaching them anything? Flemeth seems to be drawn to those who are naturally strong (Warden and Hawke). Flemeth wouldn't even give the Warden her Grimoire if the Warden could not beat her dragon form. Morrigan thinks the mages in the circle deserve to be killed by the Templars for being weak enough to be there. And even if they cared enough to teach. How many mages would actually become strong enough to benefit from the lessons? I believe that the very few strong mages that exist are not even in the circle and if they are they would just leave it, like Fenyrial when he becomes strong enough to understand his power.

[Rinshikai10]

Hazegurl wrote...

But would someone like Flemeth care about mages? Or would waste time teaching them anything? Flemeth seems to be drawn to those who are naturally strong (Warden and Hawke). Flemeth wouldn't even give the Warden her Grimoire if the Warden could not beat her dragon form. Morrigan thinks the mages in the circle deserve to be killed by the Templars for being weak enough to be there. And even if they cared enough to teach. How many mages would actually become strong enough to benefit from the lessons? I believe that the very few strong mages that exist are not even in the circle and if they are they would just leave it, like Fenyrial when he becomes strong enough to understand his power.

This appears to be true.

Modifié par Rinshikai10, 22 mars 2013 - 06:14 .

[MisterJB]

DKJaigen wrote...
We have no idea how many mages that have similar power like Flemeth exist but it could be far larger then you realise. Such immortal mages have no use for the chantry or the circle. And likely they have no use for mortal society as well . I think Flemeth would consider the chantry and its followers to be nothing more then blind childeren. I dont think they have any use for the Tevinter imperium. After all for all their power the Tevinter mages can be seen as a failure for not overcoming their mortality.

The best course of action is to turn every mage like Flemeth (with  more friendly disposition) then their will be peace.

...
...
...
And so it was that the seven ancient Sages of Stupidity climbed to the peak of mountain Stupid and predicted that, a century later, when all the stupid stars were alligned, this would be posted and humanity's IQ be lowered by a significant percentange.
Honestly, I've seen some ridiculous suggestions over the years but this one takes the million dollar wedding cake.
"So, we got this problem of mages being born with more power than mundanes. What should we do to fix this? Give the mages more power, obviously."

Unless your definition of "peaceful" means "peace of the grave" because what you are suggesting is giving the mages more means to commit genocide.

[BlueMagitek]

DKJaigen wrote...
We have no idea how many mages that have similar power like Flemeth exist but it could be far larger then you realise. Such immortal mages have no use for the chantry or the circle. And likely they have no use for mortal society as well . I think Flemeth would consider the chantry and its followers to be nothing more then blind childeren. I dont think they have any use for the Tevinter imperium. After all for all their power the Tevinter mages can be seen as a failure for not overcoming their mortality.

The best course of action is to turn every mage like Flemeth (with  more friendly disposition) then their will be peace.

You might have a point if not for Flemeth screwing around with mortal society all the time.  And I doubt Flemeth is *just* a mage, as do quite a few people, including her own daughter.  She isn't anything like the sort of character you described, aside from mocking the Chantry/Circle system and possibly Tevinter.

And even if she *was* the person you described, you seriously want every mage to be a temptress monster that jumps bodies when their current one expires?

[DKJaigen]

Hazegurl wrote...

But would someone like Flemeth care about mages? Or would waste time teaching them anything? Flemeth seems to be drawn to those who are naturally strong (Warden and Hawke). Flemeth wouldn't even give the Warden her Grimoire if the Warden could not beat her dragon form. Morrigan thinks the mages in the circle deserve to be killed by the Templars for being weak enough to be there. And even if they cared enough to teach. How many mages would actually become strong enough to benefit from the lessons? I believe that the very few strong mages that exist are not even in the circle and if they are they would just leave it, like Fenyrial when he becomes strong enough to understand his power.

She does not care one bit about the circle mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental. This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different human able to survive the world of thedas.

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
We have no idea how many mages that have similar power like Flemeth exist but it could be far larger then you realise. Such immortal mages have no use for the chantry or the circle. And likely they have no use for mortal society as well . I think Flemeth would consider the chantry and its followers to be nothing more then blind childeren. I dont think they have any use for the Tevinter imperium. After all for all their power the Tevinter mages can be seen as a failure for not overcoming their mortality.

The best course of action is to turn every mage like Flemeth (with  more friendly disposition) then their will be peace.

...
...
...
And so it was that the seven ancient Sages of Stupidity climbed to the peak of mountain Stupid and predicted that, a century later, when all the stupid stars were alligned, this would be posted and humanity's IQ be lowered by a significant percentange.
Honestly, I've seen some ridiculous suggestions over the years but this one takes the million dollar wedding cake.
"So, we got this problem of mages being born with more power than mundanes. What should we do to fix this? Give the mages more power, obviously."

Unless your definition of "peaceful" means "peace of the grave" because what you are suggesting is giving the mages more means to commit genocide.

And how will this genocide happen?

[Dabrikishaw]

I consider Merril's clan damaged goods(that's what poor damage control of a situation can do) so I always kill them after Pride's End for that and the extra exp.

[Hazegurl]

DKJaigen wrote...
She does not care one bit about the circle mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental. This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different human able to survive the world of thedas.

The Chantry is not the problem.

Flemeth will never teach anyone anything unless they can defeat her and there is no way the majority of mages that exist will be able to do that. If she even cares to teach, which I highly doubt it.  How come the warden mage can overcome growing up in the circle and gain power while the other mages can't? It's the same as why some students are able to skip multiple grades and graduate from high school early while everyone else have to
stay where they belong.  Not everyone can be a genuis and not every mage can be strong. The Imperium proves this. The few in power make the laws while the rest of the mages are just squrriels trying to get a nut and at worst they are slaves too.

Either way, why would the few powerful mages, hermits, wizards(if they have them in Dragon age), and whatever the heck Flemeth is care at all about them to share their secrets simply because the Chantry no longer exist? I
just think you are imagining this perfect world for mages that just simply will not exist.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 23 mars 2013 - 08:46 .

[DKJaigen]

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
She does not care one bit about the circle mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental. This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different human able to survive the world of thedas.

The Chantry is not the problem.

Flemeth will never teach anyone anything unless they can defeat her and there is no way the majority of mages that exist will be able to do that. If she even cares to teach, which I highly doubt it.  How come the warden mage can overcome growing up in the circle and gain power while the other mages can't? It's the same as why some students are able to skip multiple grades and graduate from high school early while everyone else have to
stay where they belong.  Not everyone can be a genuis and not every mage can be strong. The Imperium proves this. The few in power make the laws while the rest of the mages are just squrriels trying to get a nut and at worst they are slaves too.

Either way, why would the few powerful mages, hermits, wizards(if they have them in Dragon age), and whatever the heck Flemeth is care at all about them to share their secrets simply because the Chantry no longer exist? I
just think you are imagining this perfect world for mages that just simply will not exist.

I dont want Flemeth to teach mages i want mages to teach themselves. They cannot do that when the chantry promotes ignorance. And you confuse strenght with defiance. Only defiant mages will get to leave the circle weak or strong. Or do you consider anders to be a strong mage?

I dont believe in a perfect world i do believe that mages can create a world where humans can survive. The chantry will not survive . It will not be destroyed by the circle mages but they will be destroyed by factions from the outside. From what i gather from the DA3 plot this is already happening. And if they are responsible for the mage-templar war they just crippeld the best defenses.

[dragonflight288]

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
She does not care one bit about the circle mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental. This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different human able to survive the world of thedas.

The Chantry is not the problem.

Flemeth will never teach anyone anything unless they can defeat her and there is no way the majority of mages that exist will be able to do that. If she even cares to teach, which I highly doubt it.  How come the warden mage can overcome growing up in the circle and gain power while the other mages can't? It's the same as why some students are able to skip multiple grades and graduate from high school early while everyone else have to
stay where they belong.  Not everyone can be a genuis and not every mage can be strong. The Imperium proves this. The few in power make the laws while the rest of the mages are just squrriels trying to get a nut and at worst they are slaves too.

Either way, why would the few powerful mages, hermits, wizards(if they have them in Dragon age), and whatever the heck Flemeth is care at all about them to share their secrets simply because the Chantry no longer exist? I
just think you are imagining this perfect world for mages that just simply will not exist.

I dont want Flemeth to teach mages i want mages to teach themselves. They cannot do that when the chantry promotes ignorance. And you confuse strenght with defiance. Only defiant mages will get to leave the circle weak or strong. Or do you consider anders to be a strong mage?

I dont believe in a perfect world i do believe that mages can create a world where humans can survive. The chantry will not survive . It will not be destroyed by the circle mages but they will be destroyed by factions from the outside. From what i gather from the DA3 plot this is already happening. And if they are responsible for the mage-templar war they just crippeld the best defenses.

They are also being destroyed from within. The Chantry has fractured so much that any threat of an exalted march at this point is laughable. The templars aren't there. The Seekers are divided. The Mages declared Independence.

It would be like "Ooh, the Chantry declared an Exalted March on me! Better watch out for those priests and revered mothers, they might throw written copies of the Chant at me."

[MisterJB]

DKJaigen wrote...
And how will this genocide happen?

Do I really need to explain what happens when a strong people encounter a weak one?
Your "solution" makes no sense. Not only has Flemeth interfered with mortal society many times, the simple acquisition of power, like you're suggesting, does nothing to curb the tendencies that lead to suffering such as violence and greed.
Simply saying "with a friendlier disposition" is as helpful as saying "Rich should share with the poor". It's not a solution, it's an ideal and you propose nothing in ways of achieving it.
And even if we were capable of just making people with "friendlier disposition" what that means is that, therefore, there is no need to increase the power of the mages.
That's three different ways in what you said makes no sense if we don't approach it from a mage supremacist viewpoint which I must thus assume it's yours.

DKJaigen wrote...
She does not care one bit about the circle
mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish
mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need
to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental.
This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is
so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy
many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different
human able to survive the world of thedas.

What are you talking about? Spiritual and mental? A world where humans can survive? What does any of that
mean? Humans have been able to survive in Thedas just fine, mages and non-mages alike.

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 mars 2013 - 04:30 .

[DKJaigen]

dragonflight288 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
She does not care one bit about the circle mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental. This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different human able to survive the world of thedas.

The Chantry is not the problem.

Flemeth will never teach anyone anything unless they can defeat her and there is no way the majority of mages that exist will be able to do that. If she even cares to teach, which I highly doubt it.  How come the warden mage can overcome growing up in the circle and gain power while the other mages can't? It's the same as why some students are able to skip multiple grades and graduate from high school early while everyone else have to
stay where they belong.  Not everyone can be a genuis and not every mage can be strong. The Imperium proves this. The few in power make the laws while the rest of the mages are just squrriels trying to get a nut and at worst they are slaves too.

Either way, why would the few powerful mages, hermits, wizards(if they have them in Dragon age), and whatever the heck Flemeth is care at all about them to share their secrets simply because the Chantry no longer exist? I
just think you are imagining this perfect world for mages that just simply will not exist.

I dont want Flemeth to teach mages i want mages to teach themselves. They cannot do that when the chantry promotes ignorance. And you confuse strenght with defiance. Only defiant mages will get to leave the circle weak or strong. Or do you consider anders to be a strong mage?

I dont believe in a perfect world i do believe that mages can create a world where humans can survive. The chantry will not survive . It will not be destroyed by the circle mages but they will be destroyed by factions from the outside. From what i gather from the DA3 plot this is already happening. And if they are responsible for the mage-templar war they just crippeld the best defenses.

They are also being destroyed from within. The Chantry has fractured so much that any threat of an exalted march at this point is laughable. The templars aren't there. The Seekers are divided. The Mages declared Independence.

It would be like "Ooh, the Chantry declared an Exalted March on me! Better watch out for those priests and revered mothers, they might throw written copies of the Chant at me."

It shows the folly of supporting the chantry as a political body. They are suspectible to outside influences. And if they collapse they drag thedas with them/

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
And how will this genocide happen?

Do I really need to explain what happens when a strong people encounter a weak one?
Your "solution" makes no sense. Not only has Flemeth interfered with mortal society many times, the simple acquisition of power, like you're suggesting, does nothing to curb the tendencies that lead to suffering such as violence and greed.
Simply saying "with a friendlier disposition" is as helpful as saying "Rich should share with the poor". It's not a solution, it's an ideal and you propose nothing in ways of achieving it.
And even if we were capable of just making people with "friendlier disposition" what that means is that, therefore, there is no need to increase the power of the mages.
That's three different ways in what you said makes no sense if we don't approach it from a mage supremacist viewpoint which I must thus assume it's yours.

DKJaigen wrote...
She does not care one bit about the circle
mages. And why should she . The circle mages have such an childish
mindset that any lessons she may teach them is futile. Mages first need
to move their priorities from material to the spiritual and the mental.
This can only be achieved by destroying the chantries teachings that is
so grounded into the material its not even funny.  The road is not easy
many mundanes and mages will die but the end result with be a different
human able to survive the world of thedas.

What are you talking about? Spiritual and mental? A world where humans can survive? What does any of that
mean? Humans have been able to survive in Thedas just fine, mages and non-mages alike.

Its not the duty of the strong to carry the weak. Its the duty of the weak to grow stronger. I would not shed a single tear if every chantrist was killed. They chose to be weak. And yes humanity survives for now. It doesnt mean it will continue to survive if it continues the chantrys backward policies and to ignore several major threats around them.

[MisterJB]

If every single human were to dedicate themselves to military matters, civilization would collapse. But on the whole, non-mages have dominated three quarters of the continent for a thousand years thanks in large part to the "backwards" policies of the Chantry. Perhaps they are the most fit to survive in Thedas.

[Hazegurl]

DKJaigen wrote...

I dont want Flemeth to teach mages i want mages to teach themselves. They cannot do that when the chantry promotes ignorance. And you confuse strenght with defiance. Only defiant mages will get to leave the circle weak or strong. Or do you consider anders to be a strong mage?

I dont believe in a perfect world i do believe that mages can create a world where humans can survive. The chantry will not survive . It will not be destroyed by the circle mages but they will be destroyed by factions from the outside. From what i gather from the DA3 plot this is already happening. And if they are responsible for the mage-templar war they just crippeld the best defenses.

Teaching themselves is different than your first comment that they should turn to mages like Flemeth. I do agree that they should teach themselves but in a controlled environment, like a school. As for defiance and strength. No I don't consider Anders himself a strong mage but he became strong because of Justice. Anders proves that a mage can be as defiant as they like but if they are weak then they will always get caught and put back into the circle. Anders also had a stroke of luck being taken to Vigil's Keep during a crisis.

I have a problem with the part I bolded. I get the impression from it that mages should be the ones in power and it is up to them to create a world fit for human survival. I just see this as a reversal of the current system. Instead of mundanes calling the shots, let's let the mages call the shots. I think neither should be calling all the shots. They need to learn to work together. Mundanes can't keep mages locked up like that forever and mages need to get over the fact that they can't just run around zapping whomever they please, banging demons, and spraying blood all over the place(as fun as that sounds lol!), there need to be restrictions in place...just not the Chantry's current restrictions.

Its not the duty of the strong to carry the weak. Its the duty of the weak to grow stronger. I would not shed a
single tear if every chantrist was killed. They chose to be weak. And yes humanity survives for now. It doesnt mean it will continue to survive if it continues the chantrys backward policies and to ignore several major threats around them.

So you also don't shed a tear for any mage killed during the RoA as they are weak and allowed themselves to be imprisoned in the first place?

I have to agree with Mister JB about your views. They are very mage superiority centered where the Chantry and everyone involved needs to just die so that mages can rule. Because quite honestly, that is the only way your points make any sense. If the Chantry has held power for centuries and oppressed mages just as long, then they are the strong, have determined what is fit for human survival, and have no obligation to weak mages.

Now if mages overthrow mundanes and the Chantry and become the new power. Does that mean they get to just hold on to it with no one challenging them for it?

Why should mundanes rely on them to determine what is fit for their own survivial? If humans grow stronger and unite to overthrow them and succeed then what next? Mages get stronger and defeat them again?  :pinched:I just see it as an endless cycle of war that helps no one in the end. There needs to be some compromise.

Because an Imperium where the weak (both mundane and mage) are murdered and enslaved is not the perfect example of a fitting place to live. No thanks to that and If that is what is happening then I hope the Chantry fights with everything they have to prevent this type of society worldwide.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 24 mars 2013 - 08:35 .

[Trolldrool]

While it's true that the templars and the chantry have brought all this upon themselves, as we have observed many times without fail that the more oppressive and extreme the templars become, the more mages will attempt to escape and/or become malifecarum to protect themselves from abuse or harm.

On the other side is the matter that there's no way a terrified mage, either resorting to slitting his wrists to summon demons or in a moment of debilitating despair becomes an easier target to demonic possession, doesn't unleash a marauding horde of demons on a city to fight the templars and somehow only templars are killed.

With the veil being torn asunder, demons will flood the streets, either left roaming by mages who don't care or by mages overcome with the need for escape. Any mage trying to hold them back and protect civilians would swiftly be slain by demons or be forced to become a blood mage to control them.

The templars, while arguably over zealous and perhaps even liable to butcher non-mages, convincing themselves they've slain blood mage conspirators, can't cause as much indiscriminate destruction as any panicked mage can. And that's why I chose to side with the templars on my first run. I reasoned that the civilian casualties would be high either way, but even higher without templars to regain control of the streets.

Whether my assumption was naïve or stupid or made no sense can of course be debated now, but it was my reason for siding with the templars on my first playthrough.

[Hazegurl]

Back on topic: Trolldrool, I don't think its naive to assume that a panicked mage could cause more destruction than the Templars. It seems like most of the reasons for siding with them have to do with player desire to protect Kirkwall. I wonder if the devs knew this and that's why at the end Hawke becomes Viscount.

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

If every single human were to dedicate themselves to military matters, civilization would collapse. But on the whole, non-mages have dominated three quarters of the continent for a thousand years thanks in large part to the "backwards" policies of the Chantry. Perhaps they are the most fit to survive in Thedas.

Safe for the qunuari the chantry has not faced any serious faction opposing their power for nearly a millenia. Now the circles have said :we no longer tolerate your nonsense, the chantry has completely collapsed on itself . A real iron grip their mate.

I doubt the mundanes are able to survive the new intelligent darkspawn. The architect was aware of his own biological advantage and could easily destroy everything with the blight.

And i also doubt that the mundanes are able to survive the demon that is coming. The mages have one major advantage over the mundanes. They can summon an unending stream of demons .  With a bit of manipulation they can turn the templars against the common population by infesting a city with abominations.

Things are not looking good for the mundanes at all. But it serves them right.

[Lazy Jer]

DKJaigen wrote...
Safe for the qunuari the chantry has not faced any serious faction opposing their power for nearly a millenia. Now the circles have said :we no longer tolerate your nonsense, the chantry has completely collapsed on itself . A real iron grip their mate.

I doubt the mundanes are able to survive the new intelligent darkspawn. The architect was aware of his own biological advantage and could easily destroy everything with the blight.

And i also doubt that the mundanes are able to survive the demon that is coming. The mages have one major advantage over the mundanes. They can summon an unending stream of demons .  With a bit of manipulation they can turn the templars against the common population by infesting a city with abominations.

Things are not looking good for the mundanes at all. But it serves them right.

This is a bad plan.  We all see what happens when you try to use demons and abominations as weapons by the occurrences at Soldier's Peek.  The fade tore open and demons poured in like it was free nacho night at the movie theater.

EDIT:  Furthermore, what's with this "serves them right" comment.  You can't decry that not all mages are criminals with one hand and then lump all mundanes into a group of conniving, mustache-twirling oppressors with the other.

Modifié par Lazy Jer, 26 mars 2013 - 12:27 .

[Hazegurl]

DKJaigen wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

If every single human were to dedicate themselves to military matters, civilization would collapse. But on the whole, non-mages have dominated three quarters of the continent for a thousand years thanks in large part to the "backwards" policies of the Chantry. Perhaps they are the most fit to survive in Thedas.

Safe for the qunuari the chantry has not faced any serious faction opposing their power for nearly a millenia. Now the circles have said :we no longer tolerate your nonsense, the chantry has completely collapsed on itself . A real iron grip their mate.

I doubt the mundanes are able to survive the new intelligent darkspawn. The architect was aware of his own biological advantage and could easily destroy everything with the blight.

And i also doubt that the mundanes are able to survive the demon that is coming. The mages have one major advantage over the mundanes. They can summon an unending stream of demons .  With a bit of manipulation they can turn the templars against the common population by infesting a city with abominations.

Things are not looking good for the mundanes at all. But it serves them right.

Wow you sound very rational

Here's a better plan. Any mage who wants to be free should move to the Imperium before bathing in blood and unleashing demon hordes on everyone, including their own families.

[DKJaigen]

Lazy Jer wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
Safe for the qunuari the chantry has not faced any serious faction opposing their power for nearly a millenia. Now the circles have said :we no longer tolerate your nonsense, the chantry has completely collapsed on itself . A real iron grip their mate.

I doubt the mundanes are able to survive the new intelligent darkspawn. The architect was aware of his own biological advantage and could easily destroy everything with the blight.

And i also doubt that the mundanes are able to survive the demon that is coming. The mages have one major advantage over the mundanes. They can summon an unending stream of demons .  With a bit of manipulation they can turn the templars against the common population by infesting a city with abominations.

Things are not looking good for the mundanes at all. But it serves them right.

This is a bad plan.  We all see what happens when you try to use demons and abominations as weapons by the occurrences at Soldier's Peek.  The fade tore open and demons poured in like it was free nacho night at the movie theater.

EDIT:  Furthermore, what's with this "serves them right" comment.  You can't decry that not all mages are criminals with one hand and then lump all mundanes into a group of conniving, mustache-twirling oppressors with the other.

2 major mistakes in your reasoning.

One what im discribing not even remotely the same as soldiers peak. You only have to tear open the veil move a good 30 miles away , watch demons do their demony stuff , sip your martini, cackle evilly then say: just as planned(twirling your evil moustache is optional) . Also Therone (despite being insane) has already proven that demons can be controlled.

And what im saying with "serves them right" is that if you live in an magical world where magic can destroy you. And you listen to the chantry that says : you should remain ignorant all your lives about such things, and you say yes. Then it serves you right that you are finally being destroyed by it.