462 réponses à ce sujet

[DKJaigen]

Hazegurl wrote...


Wow you sound very rational

Here's a better plan. Any mage who wants to be free should move to the Imperium before bathing in blood and unleashing demon hordes on everyone, including their own families.

Where they have a good chance of being enslaved. And thanks to the nice chantry the mages have no connection or sympathy to the mundanes at all. This is brutally illustrated in the book Asunder where Wynne does not  inform the Orlesian court about the rebellion simply for the benefit of the mages.

[MisterJB]

DKJaigen wrote...
One what im discribing not even remotely the same as soldiers peak. You only have to tear open the veil move a good 30 miles away , watch demons do their demony stuff , sip your martini, cackle evilly then say: just as planned(twirling your evil moustache is optional) . Also Therone (despite being insane) has already proven that demons can be controlled.

And invent teleportation while you're at it. You can't cast spells from 30 miles away!
Sure, demons can be controlled. Until they escape it. Good luck attempting to control an army from 30 miles away.

And what im saying with "serves them right" is that if you live in an magical world where magic can destroy you. And you listen to the chantry that says : you should remain ignorant all your lives about such things, and you say yes. Then it serves you right that you are finally being destroyed by it.

Back to the basics...The reason that an order of mundanes capable of nullifying magic exists is exactly because the Chantry conducted experiments into the nature of magic so as to better defend themselves from it. Rite of Tranquility, Harrowing, Phylacteries are all the product of mundanes researching magic.
But not everyone can be a templar. If all mundanes were to dedicate themselves to military life, the whole society would collapse.
Capisci?

DKJaigen wrote...
Safe for the qunuari the chantry has not
faced any serious faction opposing their power for nearly a millenia.
Now the circles have said :we no longer tolerate your nonsense, the
chantry has completely collapsed on itself . A real iron grip their
mate.

Qunari, Tevinter, Elves, other Andrastean cults and yes, keeping the mages unders control
Or what, do you think this is the first attempt at rebellion? Read a bit on how the RoA came to be, play "Broken Circle" again.

I
doubt the mundanes are able to survive the new intelligent darkspawn.
The architect was aware of his own biological advantage and could easily
destroy everything with the blight.

We are mundanes. And if the darkspawn were to appear today, all we had to do was press a button to get rid of them.

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...


And invent teleportation while you're at it. You can't cast spells from 30 miles away!
Sure, demons can be controlled. Until they escape it. Good luck attempting to control an army from 30 miles away.

You have a lack of imagination. A mage can walk into a city  and open the veil . At this poin the city is lost.

Back to the basics...The reason that an order of mundanes capable of nullifying magic exists is exactly because the Chantry conducted experiments into the nature of magic so as to better defend themselves from it. Rite of Tranquility, Harrowing, Phylacteries are all the product of mundanes researching magic.
But not everyone can be a templar. If all mundanes were to dedicate themselves to military life, the whole society would collapse.
Capisci?

Wow those are great ways of defending yourself. While the chantry knows how to counter circle magic they have no knowledge beyond that. In fact they dont even know what they are doing as the rite of tranquility is not such a foolproof weapon as they once thought. And you are very certain that tranquility , the harrowing and phylacteries are created by the chantry . They may have their foundation in the ancient tevinter imperium. The litany of Adralla has

Qunari, Tevinter, Elves, other Andrastean cults and yes, keeping the mages unders control
Or what, do you think this is the first attempt at rebellion? Read a bit on how the RoA came to be, play "Broken Circle" again.

Who says this entire mess is not started by another group of mages. And remember that the circles stayed with the chantry because of the alliance between fraternities that is now gone.

We are mundanes. And if the darkspawn were to appear today, all we had to do was press a button to get rid of them.

Good to know ! And this absolutely no comfort for the people of thedas. Not to mnetion intelligent darkspawn can also use technology.

Modifié par DKJaigen, 26 mars 2013 - 02:44 .

[Lazy Jer]

DKJaigen wrote...

MisterJB wrote...


And invent teleportation while you're at it. You can't cast spells from 30 miles away!
Sure, demons can be controlled. Until they escape it. Good luck attempting to control an army from 30 miles away.

You have a lack of imagination. A mage can walk into a city  and open the veil . At this poin the city is lost.

...and thus kill people who the mages are not at war with.  Seriously the Circle is at war with the Templar Order.  Not "the mundanes" and not even the Chantry since the Templars have split off from them.  Your suggestion, in addition to being dangerous and likely to backfire, is punishing people who have nothing to do with the conflict.  It's basically killing non-mages because they happen to be non-mages.  Nice.  You're a shining example of the mage revolution.

That last sentence, btw, was sarcasm.

[DKJaigen]

Lazy Jer wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

MisterJB wrote...


And invent teleportation while you're at it. You can't cast spells from 30 miles away!
Sure, demons can be controlled. Until they escape it. Good luck attempting to control an army from 30 miles away.

You have a lack of imagination. A mage can walk into a city  and open the veil . At this poin the city is lost.

...and thus kill people who the mages are not at war with.  Seriously the Circle is at war with the Templar Order.  Not "the mundanes" and not even the Chantry since the Templars have split off from them.  Your suggestion, in addition to being dangerous and likely to backfire, is punishing people who have nothing to do with the conflict.  It's basically killing non-mages because they happen to be non-mages.  Nice.  You're a shining example of the mage revolution.

That last sentence, btw, was sarcasm.

Just the ones that supply the templars. But thats standard military stratergy.

[Hazegurl]

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
Wow you sound very rational

Here's a better plan. Any mage who wants to be free should move to the Imperium before bathing in blood and unleashing demon hordes on everyone, including their own families.

Where they have a good chance of being enslaved. And thanks to the nice chantry the mages have no connection or sympathy to the mundanes at all. This is brutally illustrated in the book Asunder where Wynne does not  inform the Orlesian court about the rebellion simply for the benefit of the mages.

The Imperium is a mage best chance at having the freedoms they desire...if they are powerful enough to get it. Therein lies the problem with this powerful mage society you want. Very few mages will ever have the power to enjoy it and mundanes will never be able to. The rest are enslaved... by other mages. You also seem to believe that mundanes should just put their lives in the hands of mages and rely on their sympathy. I disagree with you. If mages truly desire equality then compromise is the key not releasing demon hordes on everyone. The fact that some mages are willing to release demons on others period makes me understand why mundanes worship Andraste, if she was able to stop that crap from happening. I guess you can say that the actions of mages are what drove people toward the Chantry to begin with.

[dragonflight288]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
Safe for the qunuari the chantry has not faced any serious faction opposing their power for nearly a millenia. Now the circles have said :we no longer tolerate your nonsense, the chantry has completely collapsed on itself . A real iron grip their mate.

I doubt the mundanes are able to survive the new intelligent darkspawn. The architect was aware of his own biological advantage and could easily destroy everything with the blight.

And i also doubt that the mundanes are able to survive the demon that is coming. The mages have one major advantage over the mundanes. They can summon an unending stream of demons .  With a bit of manipulation they can turn the templars against the common population by infesting a city with abominations.

Things are not looking good for the mundanes at all. But it serves them right.

This is a bad plan.  We all see what happens when you try to use demons and abominations as weapons by the occurrences at Soldier's Peek.  The fade tore open and demons poured in like it was free nacho night at the movie theater.

EDIT:  Furthermore, what's with this "serves them right" comment.  You can't decry that not all mages are criminals with one hand and then lump all mundanes into a group of conniving, mustache-twirling oppressors with the other.

2 major mistakes in your reasoning.

One what im discribing not even remotely the same as soldiers peak. You only have to tear open the veil move a good 30 miles away , watch demons do their demony stuff , sip your martini, cackle evilly then say: just as planned(twirling your evil moustache is optional) . Also Therone (despite being insane) has already proven that demons can be controlled.

And what im saying with "serves them right" is that if you live in an magical world where magic can destroy you. And you listen to the chantry that says : you should remain ignorant all your lives about such things, and you say yes. Then it serves you right that you are finally being destroyed by it.

That seems a little extreme. And sundering/tearing the veil is no small task. The veil naturally weakens in areas where magic is concentrated, but the only times I have EVER heard of it being torn is in areas where there is a great deal of violence and bloodshed. In Kirkwall, the ancient Tevinters deliberately had the undercity run red with blood as an experiment to tear the veil. The Brecilian Forest became a haven of spirits possessing trees and thus they became sylvans as a result of a war long before.

If a mage was to tear the veil and let the demons do their demony stuff, as far as I know, it would require a large amount of killing and death, and then it would be a HUGE hassel to kill the demons while the mages set about repairing the veil.

I may be a mage supporter, but such a plan is just too extreme, wouldn't do the mages any favors or any good, and all that would result is a lot of death, and much of it may be pointless. If it is to be worth ANYTHING, you'd have to pick a high priority target, and start killing random people in large numbers, and then deliberately tear the veil and have demons pour through to do their work.

But demons don't serve mages. A few of the weaker ones may be bound, but not controlled. All that would happen is that the mages would take one strategically important spot and practically give it away to a third faction that will hurt everyone.

[DKJaigen]

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
Wow you sound very rational

Here's a better plan. Any mage who wants to be free should move to the Imperium before bathing in blood and unleashing demon hordes on everyone, including their own families.

Where they have a good chance of being enslaved. And thanks to the nice chantry the mages have no connection or sympathy to the mundanes at all. This is brutally illustrated in the book Asunder where Wynne does not  inform the Orlesian court about the rebellion simply for the benefit of the mages.

The Imperium is a mage best chance at having the freedoms they desire...if they are powerful enough to get it. Therein lies the problem with this powerful mage society you want. Very few mages will ever have the power to enjoy it and mundanes will never be able to. The rest are enslaved... by other mages. You also seem to believe that mundanes should just put their lives in the hands of mages and rely on their sympathy. I disagree with you. If mages truly desire equality then compromise is the key not releasing demon hordes on everyone. The fact that some mages are willing to release demons on others period makes me understand why mundanes worship Andraste, if she was able to stop that crap from happening. I guess you can say that the actions of mages are what drove people toward the Chantry to begin with.

Once again you think i am looking from a perspective from a circle mage ,Im not! Im looking from a perspective from a group of mages thats outside the circle (and never where one to begin with) and seek conquest. And if the mundanes wish to cling to status que of the chantry it will only aid them.

[Hazegurl]

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
Wow you sound very rational

Here's a better plan. Any mage who wants to be free should move to the Imperium before bathing in blood and unleashing demon hordes on everyone, including their own families.

Where they have a good chance of being enslaved. And thanks to the nice chantry the mages have no connection or sympathy to the mundanes at all. This is brutally illustrated in the book Asunder where Wynne does not  inform the Orlesian court about the rebellion simply for the benefit of the mages.

The Imperium is a mage best chance at having the freedoms they desire...if they are powerful enough to get it. Therein lies the problem with this powerful mage society you want. Very few mages will ever have the power to enjoy it and mundanes will never be able to. The rest are enslaved... by other mages. You also seem to believe that mundanes should just put their lives in the hands of mages and rely on their sympathy. I disagree with you. If mages truly desire equality then compromise is the key not releasing demon hordes on everyone. The fact that some mages are willing to release demons on others period makes me understand why mundanes worship Andraste, if she was able to stop that crap from happening. I guess you can say that the actions of mages are what drove people toward the Chantry to begin with.

Once again you think i am looking from a perspective from a circle mage ,Im not! Im looking from a perspective from a group of mages thats outside the circle (and never where one to begin with) and seek conquest. And if the mundanes wish to cling to status que of the chantry it will only aid them.

Once again. If they don't like how things are run, they can head to the Imperium and do what they want, if they are strong enough to do it. Most of the truly strong mages don't seem to be trying to uproot the Chantry (at least we haven't seen them try). Only some of the crazies with demons crawling out their rear...and current and former circle mages. Even so, your plan is heavily flawed. Mundanes can also make deals with demons, so yeah flooding Thedas with demons will only have a bunch of desperate folks both mage and mundane cutting deals for survival and demons killing them and everyone else eventually anyway.

[dragonflight288]

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
Wow you sound very rational

Here's a better plan. Any mage who wants to be free should move to the Imperium before bathing in blood and unleashing demon hordes on everyone, including their own families.

Where they have a good chance of being enslaved. And thanks to the nice chantry the mages have no connection or sympathy to the mundanes at all. This is brutally illustrated in the book Asunder where Wynne does not  inform the Orlesian court about the rebellion simply for the benefit of the mages.

The Imperium is a mage best chance at having the freedoms they desire...if they are powerful enough to get it. Therein lies the problem with this powerful mage society you want. Very few mages will ever have the power to enjoy it and mundanes will never be able to. The rest are enslaved... by other mages. You also seem to believe that mundanes should just put their lives in the hands of mages and rely on their sympathy. I disagree with you. If mages truly desire equality then compromise is the key not releasing demon hordes on everyone. The fact that some mages are willing to release demons on others period makes me understand why mundanes worship Andraste, if she was able to stop that crap from happening. I guess you can say that the actions of mages are what drove people toward the Chantry to begin with.

Once again you think i am looking from a perspective from a circle mage ,Im not! Im looking from a perspective from a group of mages thats outside the circle (and never where one to begin with) and seek conquest. And if the mundanes wish to cling to status que of the chantry it will only aid them.

Once again. If they don't like how things are run, they can head to the Imperium and do what they want, if they are strong enough to do it. Most of the truly strong mages don't seem to be trying to uproot the Chantry (at least we haven't seen them try). Only some of the crazies with demons crawling out their rear...and current and former circle mages. Even so, your plan is heavily flawed. Mundanes can also make deals with demons, so yeah flooding Thedas with demons will only have a bunch of desperate folks both mage and mundane cutting deals for survival and demons killing them and everyone else eventually anyway.

That's very true. Mages are far from the only ones in danger of being possessed. Sophia Dryden being a prime example.

[Lazy Jer]

dragonflight288 wrote...

That's very true. Mages are far from the only ones in danger of being possessed. Sophia Dryden being a prime example.

So basically it's a horrible idea all around.  Must be why no one's tried it in game history.

[dragonflight288]

Lazy Jer wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

That's very true. Mages are far from the only ones in danger of being possessed. Sophia Dryden being a prime example.

So basically it's a horrible idea all around.  Must be why no one's tried it in game history.

Pretty much.

[GeminiParadox]

The way I see it, many of the Templars in Kirkwall abused their position and treated mages much worse than Templars in other circles. Mages in the Kirkwall Circle were abused, and the powers in Kirkwall turned a blind eye. Individual Templars may have been decent, but overall they made life difficult for Circle mages. The apostate mages weren't exactly justified in turning to blood magic, but I can see why they would be driven to use blood magic out of desperation. I don't believe all blood mages are irredeemable. It depends on what exactly they've done.

However, killing all of the innocent mages who were left in the Circle and may have never been tempted by demons is unjustifiable. And from a story perspective, it just makes sense for my mage Hawke to side with the mages.