141 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Hah, I knew this mod was inevitable and nice to see the usual suspects pissing and moaning.

*Two Thumbs up*

[jsamlaw]

Zjarcal wrote...

If you want to modify characters that aren't your own to suit your needs and destroy the game's integrity, be my guest, but don't expect me to think you have any respect for the writers if you do that.

My mistake, then, for lumping you into the group of previous posters that were actually requesting that the modders stop creating these mods.  Though, I think it's a bit of a stretch to equate downloading a mod to disrespect for BioWare's writers.

I thought ME3 was an excellent, well written game -- as are all BioWare games I've played to date.  I simply didn't enjoy the ending they wrote for my character, so I downloaded a mod more in line with my preferences.  What I see on my computer screen when the game ends, doesn't impact in any way my level of respect for the writing staff.  Further, I plan to continue purchasing BW games (and future ME games), despite my preference for a different ending.

Things don't have to be as black and white as you make them out to be, nor as extreme.

[New Display Name]

@HJF4 I have no idea what you just said

It's Dragon Age 2. Ander's sexual history with men is confirmed if Hawke is male but not if Hawke is female. As far as I know there is no other definite indication that Anders is attracted to men.

[nrobbiec]

HJF4 wrote...

@HJF4 I have no idea what you just said

It's Dragon Age 2. Ander's sexual history with men is confirmed if Hawke is male but not if Hawke is female. As far as I know there is no other definite indication that Anders is attracted to men.

Oh. I've never played any of the Dragon Age games.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

When I first complimented this thread, I believe the only content was making Vega flirt with maleshep.

Now it has become a minefield!

---

"Nevermind that Samantha likes woman and that's her mind set of character and her business. No we have to change that because it better suits my needs even though there are dozen of other available romances! "

I really wanted Garrus to be bisexual, because I thought a male romance would have been cute and cool. That didn't happen, but I've enjoyed clips and mods where this happened.

I am not straight, but I'm bisexual, so I haven't had the problem where there were no romance options for me.  So perhaps I'm not qualified in the "frustration" of being alone.

I don't understand the idea of "there's plenty of other options." If you're talking about just sex, I mean sure. But if you find this person to be a good match to you, I mean...if Traynor was exactly the same but bisexual, would that make her an entirely different person in a world where homophobia has been stamped out by cultural progress and being gay is just normal? I'd understandif there was a forbidden love element that defined her character through having to deal with the pressures of society...but in Mass Effect, being gay is being gay and no one criticizes it or makes fun of it. Ever. It's achieved full acceptance.

I know you specifically said that it does still bother you when it's the opposite, straight to gay...but I just don't see this same level of condemnation towards making Tali or other canon "straight" characters fall in love with the same gender. It seems to be OK to "violate" what a character is if it means opening up things for gay relations, but not OK if someone legitimately likes Steve as a female?

I can see how this can be interpreted as offensive or the fear of bad intentions, but I don't think the creator is intentionally trying to be a bad person or needs extreme condemnation. If you really think the existence of this mod could be damaging or hurtful, persuasion as to what it could do to perceptions and hurt the LGBT community is a lot more effective than trying to go into moral outrage mode and shame people.

Modifié par PKchu, 25 février 2013 - 10:39 .

[JesseLee202]

As long as people agree it is not canonical, MOD AWAY!

/canon police out

---

On topic, interesting to see MaleShep in that shower scene.

[Lenimph]

PKchu wrote..

I know you specifically said that it does still bother you when it's the opposite, straight to gay...but I just don't see this same level of condemnation towards making Tali or other canon "straight" characters fall in love with the same gender. It seems to be OK to "violate" what a character is if it means opening up things for gay relations, but not OK if someone legitimately likes Steve as a female? 

I can see how this can be interpreted as offensive or the fear of bad intentions, but I don't think the creator is intentionally trying to be a bad person or needs extreme condemnation. If you really think the existence of this mod could be damaging or hurtful, persuasion as to what it could do to perceptions and hurt the LGBT community is a lot more effective than trying to go into moral outrage mode and shame people.

I'm not here to represent the LGBT community...

Again I said that the problem I have with Samantha in comparison to the other mods out there is that she explicitly tells the male Shepard she is not interested in him. Why that is so hard to understand ?IDK. No idea what Steve's romance is like I never tried it so I have no comment with him. 

And the modder has already addressed my question of why he(or she) created the mod. 

Modifié par Lenimph, 25 février 2013 - 10:37 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Lenimph wrote...

I'm not here to represent the LGBT community...

My apologies, I'm not trying to be rude or offensive to you or make you represent something..
  
"Again I said that the problem I have with Samantha in comparison to the other mods out there is that she explicitly tells the male Shepard she is not interested in him. Why that is so hard to understand ?IDK."

I guess I can kind of understand that. I've never seen that scene to be honest.

My impression it was something like, "No Shepard, I am not interested in men" rather than a "I don't find your qualities and the way you are Shepard to be attractive" sense.  I don't tend to see male or femshep as "different" outside of the fact one is a guy and one is a girl, which doesn't really matter, so my confusion might stem from this and perhaps underestimating their differences.

I guess with the questions I am trying to understand why this is "bad" and double checking to see if I am just being "self-aware" enough.

Modifié par PKchu, 25 février 2013 - 10:40 .

[ObserverStatus]

Wow, that sounds like an awful lot of work you put into your mod just so players with straight male Shepards can see some virtual skin. Lol, next time just try YouTube. Let's be serious, if you're going to completely disregard her character as a gameplay element and ship Samantha with Male Shepard, that's all this mod is. What concerns me more though, is that you'd want to ship your Shepard with Samantha in the first place, I still haven't forgiven that harpy for what she did to the Normandy.

Modifié par bobobo878, 25 février 2013 - 10:58 .

[Morlan]

I personally love mods like this. Also use the DA:O mod that allows us to romance Alistair (or Morrigan) regardless of gender. I don't see why there should be any problems with creating something like this.

I admit to liking the idea of Vega flirting with manshep. I always thought he was a closet bi, or at least unsure of himself, given some of the dialogue we hear.

Plus his relationship with Cortez and the fact that he's unwiling to anything more than casual flirting with femshep. Maybe I'm just reading between the lines.

[Lenimph]

PKchu wrote...

My impression it was something like, "No Shepard, I am not interested in men" rather than a "I don't find your qualities and the way you are Shepard to be attractive" sense.  I don't tend to see male or femshep as "different" outside of the fact one is a guy and one is a girl, which doesn't really matter, so my confusion might stem from this and perhaps underestimating their differences.

I guess with the questions I am trying to understand why this is "bad" and double checking to see if I am just being "self-aware" enough.

To be fair she says "Oh, no, I appologize. I try to be friendly but you're not really my type. Remember how I liked EDI's voice?" So it's a bit of both. 

But another thing... most players who play as femshep I think would completely disagree that the two are interchangable.  Perhaps that's where most of the confusion stems, the other side of the argument does seem clearer to me after hearing that just a little bit but yeah the differences between femshep and maleshep only really stem out in gender specific situations such as romances if you completely ignore the voice acting delivery anyway so it's hard to determine.

Modifié par Lenimph, 25 février 2013 - 11:04 .

[Seboist]

What's the big deal? Sheploo is just setting a lesbian "straight" like James Bond did in the Goldfinger novel.

[ZoopZA]

Llane wrote...

Stop.

Stop and think about what you're doing.

Characters are created with a set sexuality. What you're doing, even if you didn't think about it that way, says you have no respect for what the developers intended, you don't care. Much, much worse is that you're changing the Steve Cortez and Samantha Traynor romances. These characters are clearly established as homosexual. The LGBT community fought long and hard for this kind of inclusion and they still face plenty of discrimination. Forcing these characters into a heterosexual relationship is insulting beyond words.

AshiraShepard wrote...

I've come out of almost a year of hibernation because you need to stop.

Mods were made by the LGBT community because we didn't have any other choice. We weren't included, weren't considered valid enough to include as anything other than through alien sexual novelty. The Asari don't count, not properly, because they're "blue space babes" and they're available to everyone. (It comes down to the individual, sure, but as a species...)

Straight people, on the other hand, and anyone comfortable with playing heterosexual relationships, have had their preferences pandered to since forever.

We had to b!tch, loud and long, for anyone to listen. We all but banged plates together, jumping around like a bunch of desperate monkeys because "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE NOTICE US, WE EXIST!"

Others were probably more civilized about it, but you get the idea.

We didn't have a choice. We had Liara.

Lesbian or any sexuality that can be attracted to women? GREAT. Unless you or your Shepard just don't click with Liara. Because she was just a friend to me.

Gay Male? Well, looks like there's **** all for you.

And then ME3 rolled around with two human, legitimately gay characters. We're finally valid as people.

So there's 3 (4 if you really want to count Liara) choices for the LGBT community, which is still at odds with the majority of straight romances that can be found in Mass Effect. This number only went up from 1 choice (Liara) in ME3, the last instalment.

And you've decided that it's perfectly okay to invalidate the point of introducing Cortez and Traynor.

Not cool, man.

I'm a homosexual male and I think you both need to stop. Stop and realise how utterly ridiculous you sound. If other people want to use mods in their games, that's their prerogative. It has nothing to do with you and it does not alter the original content. It is entirely optional. There is also no disrespect intended towards the homosexual demographic.

Stop being so uptight and if you don't like the mod, don't use it. I know this might be hard for you to wrap your head around seeing as you seem to like being melodramatic, but it's really as simple as ignoring the mod if you don't like it.

[ZoopZA]

jsamlaw wrote...

The only reason I jumped into this discussion is I would love to pin down why you even care about this mod?  If you don't download it, it won't change your lesbian and gay characters.  Why do you care what someone else does in their own bedroom (computer)?

Because DRAMA and SENSATIONALISM. They're just looking for attention.

Lenimph wrote...

Nevermind that Samantha likes woman and that's her mind set of character and her business.  No we have to change that because it better suits my needs even though there are dozen of other available romances!  

I have no problem with transgenders, because they're making the choice to change their own gender on their own! If anything it's the modder playing god and making choices for characters and changing them.

Yes, I'm pretty sure the VIDEO GAME characters are very affronted by the fact that these modders are meddling with them. Oh wait, no they're not, they're just a colorful arrangement of pixels.

Grow up. Seriously. It's a video-game for god's sake.

Modifié par ZoopZA, 26 février 2013 - 05:25 .

[Llane]

I find any mod that changes any aspect of a character, whether it's their physical appearance, sexuality or personality, insulting. It shows a lack of respect for the character as well as a lack of respect for the people that created the character. It also shows you're either unwilling or unable to accept the characters for who they are.

"It's just a mod" is not an excuse.

There are mods for Skyrim that change npcs to the point that they're not even the same race anymore. Mods that allow your character to sexually assault npcs. There could be worse, I don't know.

You have to draw the line somewhere and I find it offensive that you're taking two of the only three canonically homosexual characters in the entire Mass Effect universe and are forcing them into a heterosexual relationship.

That's where I stand on the matter. I can tell from the posts in this thread that no amount of arguing is going to change people's minds, though.

[nrobbiec]

Llane wrote...

I find any mod that changes any aspect of a character, whether it's their physical appearance, sexuality or personality, insulting. It shows a lack of respect for the character as well as a lack of respect for the people that created the character. It also shows you're either unwilling or unable to accept the characters for who they are.

Okay, serious question here, what about accessing the cut content from ME1 that allows male Shepard to romance Kaidan - it's not technically modding, since it was mostly recorded and rendered then just buried.

[JSLfromBx]

HJF4 wrote...

There's no such thing as "your or mine" when it comes to the set characters created and completely in control of the writers, they're not "our" characters.

If that is your perspective, do you object to mods such as James flirting with male Shepard (which was what I started with)? You said that these characters are not "mine" or "yours." This mod would change dialog so James flirts (which is a choice James could make) with male Shepard. Is that immoral?

This is a lame excuse, Vega flirt with Cortez ALL THE TIME! Having Vega take part in non serious flirt with maleshep can hardly been considered changing his perssonality.

But Traynor? She clearly says she has no interest in men at all and your what your mod does is allow maleshep to force himself onto her anyway and if that wasn't bad enough malesheep can  then hear Sam thanks him for the great time after he's done!

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?????!!!!!!!!

You're basicaly telling everyone that "corrective "rape on lesbian  are perfectly fine and that the girl with be gratefull for it afterward! That's just beyond sick there is no word to describ just how appalling that kind of message is

Your mod is an abomintion!

[Seboist]

JSLfromBx wrote...

You're basicaly telling everyone that "corrective "rape on lesbian  are perfectly fine and that the girl with be gratefull for it afterward! That's just beyond sick there is no word to describ just how appalling that kind of message is

What "rape"? Have you seen the video? Traynor is expanding her horizons and enjoying some man meat.

[ZoopZA]

Llane wrote...

I find any mod that changes any aspect of a character, whether it's their physical appearance, sexuality or personality, insulting. It shows a lack of respect for the character as well as a lack of respect for the people that created the character. It also shows you're either unwilling or unable to accept the characters for who they are.

"It's just a mod" is not an excuse.

There are mods for Skyrim that change npcs to the point that they're not even the same race anymore. Mods that allow your character to sexually assault npcs. There could be worse, I don't know.

You have to draw the line somewhere and I find it offensive that you're taking two of the only three canonically homosexual characters in the entire Mass Effect universe and are forcing them into a heterosexual relationship.

That's where I stand on the matter. I can tell from the posts in this thread that no amount of arguing is going to change people's minds, though.

Respect for a bunch of pixels? Forcing pixels into certain things?

You do realise you're not talking about real people here, right?

[Ykulnu]

JSLfromBx wrote...
You're basicaly telling everyone that "corrective "rape on lesbian  are perfectly fine and that the girl with be gratefull for it afterward!

This is as much rape as changing a character's skin tone is invalidating their racial relevance and integrity.

Modifié par Ykulnu, 26 février 2013 - 11:42 .

[MrDbow]

--Edit--

Hey, you know what, nevermind.  I shall stay away.  Thanks!

Modifié par MrDbow, 27 février 2013 - 01:32 .

[d1ta]

Wow, all this bickering about a MOD?
This is the fan creation section btw, non canon and if you don't like their their 'art work' then don't click or download it. Besides, if Mods shouldn't allow to exist then FanFiction should be thrown out the airlock too, since I think it doesn't matter what kind of platform or media you're using it still communicate ideas.

But whatever.
And somehow I have the need to express my thanks to Mr.ZoopZA for stating his opinion.

--
@OP:

I like what you can do OP and I always enjoy seeing new mods emerging and bringing new sets of possibilities on the table. Too bad for Shepard being silent though but I do understand it is due to the difficulties in finding matching lines or VA's, LoL.

There is one question I'm kinda dying to ask though, could these scenes be somewhat interchangeable between characters? Let's say in dancing scene, instead of cortez-shepard, can you also swap their boddies to shep-miranda, shep-thane, etc etc? I understand it'll probably be weird to suddenly hearing miranda in cortez's voice, so probably having their convo muted works better here.
If your mod can do that, then I think it will be well appreciated to those who have a ME2 LI that doesn't get too much screen time here in ME3

Just my 0.02 creds

[New Display Name]

Yes, I believe I could do something like that. I'd need to do some digging around in the files, but I should be able to find out how. Among the ME2 LIs, Jack should be the easiest because I believe she's in the same file package as Cortez in Purgatory.

[d1ta]

That's just sweet, OP XD

Makes me dream that maybe you can have a dance and a kiss as well with your chosen LI regardless of who s/he may be X) awsome!

[SilentK]

Hmm... just my 2 cent. I'm not bothered at all by people modding their games. If it let's them have a new PT with something new to see then it is fine by me. At the moment I am playing quite a bit of SWTOR, in this game you have companions. Since it would be a little jarring if all of them looked the same way all the time you have companion customizations to choose from. She is the same wonderful person no matter what she looks like to me at least.


My husband loves the default look of Mako. My Bounty Hunter has the version on the lower tier second to the left. A little bit more asian, very sweet and I wanted something different from the one that my husband got since we sometimes play together.

This made me feel differently about modding actually. I have romanced some characters in the game, if I will lvl that specific class again I will probably choose a different customization just so it feels more like a new relationship. I just find that fun. I love Isabellas romance in DAII, have played through it and she has great banter. If I were to romance her a fifth time perhaps I would like to use a mod simply to get a new experience, would not change her to white more likely asian or black.

Hmm... I do not get why this would be disrespectful to the writers, but we will just have to feel differently about it. Hope the writers of SWTOR don't feel that the system of changing companions is disrespectful of their work but I have not gotten that impression.

I wish that I could modd things in the game, simply for the joy of playing around the ME-universe and see if I could create something in it. I would probably try to create armors, or create new faces simply because I love playing around in the Character Creator in any game I buy. Hopefully a face that emotes well because I have created and scrapped Shepards who didn't earlier. But I do not have the skill to do so at the moment. Guess I see this would be like fanfiction a bit, playing in someone elses sandbox but seeing what you could bring to it. It is a little personal dream of mine, to one day be able to mod games, maybe I will.

Modifié par SilentK, 27 février 2013 - 02:03 .