Well, there is one other thing. I noticed that despite men and women having equal status etc, there are still much more men in combat roles than women. How do you all feel about that?
The role of men in the Dragon Age series
Débuté par
mousestalker
, févr. 24 2013 12:40
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#77
Guest_DuckSoup_*
Posté 24 février 2013 - 07:52
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Zkyire wrote...
DuckSoup wrote...
Well, firstly, I want to commend the creators of Dragon Age for not sticking to lame old stereotypes and being realistic with their character design. I personally found all the characters in DA:O to be quite accurate in their representation because you had a bit of a mixed bag. Nothing shouted to me "Well this is totally far-fetched!"
- So many party members being attracted to your character whether you're male or female, even though they show no other signs of being bisexual (i.e. being attracted to anyone else).
- Elves being treated as second class citizens in lore yet none of your party members treat them as such.
- Play as a Mage and regular citizens aren't terrified of you.
- You get different stats based on species, but not sex.
- A scantily-clad woman (Isabella), with no magic, wearing but a little cloth can go into battle against armoured opponents over and over again over years and go through life without suffering any grevious wounds.
- The inspiration for the Chantry is a woman.
- The Mothers of the Chantry are all women.
- The Revered Mothers of the Chantry are all women
- The Grand Clerics of the Chantry are all women.
- The Divine of the Chantry is always a woman.
- If Zathrian dies then the leader of the Dalish in Ferelden is a woman, after her predecessor's lust for vengeance almost destroyed them all.
- The leader of the Dalish in Kirkwall is a woman.
- The leader of the Templars in Kirkwall is a woman.
- The Captain of the Guard in Kirkwall is a woman.
- The only two Seekers we've been shown have been women.
- The only Pirate Captain we've been shown has been a woman.
- Loghain's greatest Knight was a woman.
- When King Cailan was alive he was said to be incompetant when it comes to ruling compared to his wife.
- If Anora remains Queen then the ruler of Ferelden is a woman.
- Even if you marry Anora, you don't become King, but merely her consort.
- The ruler of Orlais is a woman.
- Possibly the greatest mage in the world (Flemeth) is a woman.
Dragon Age isn't "realistic" at all. There's no attempt at all with sex differences, gender roles, or any tension between the two. Everyone gets along, no question. It's solely for feel-good purposes and isn't compelling. It's a feminists wet dream.DuckSoup wrote...
All the guys who are going to comment on
this thread about Alistair being a "sissy" and "a total ****" are likely
the kind of men who have problems with their own identity. Either
they've been denied the chance to express their true feminine side
because their peers would beat on them for it, or they're actually
closest homosexuals who act macho because nobody will figure it out if
they behave that way. Men like boobs, beer and football, donchaknow?
- Alistair is the senior Warden and yet relinquishes command of the group over to the PC because he doesn't like being responsible.
- Alistair whines about becoming King the entire game because he doesn't like being responsible.
- Alistair falls for every one of Morrigan's teases and rude comments.
- When his sister basically throws him out through no fault of his own, he doesn't stand his ground.
Unless the player actively hardens Alistair near the end of the game; he is a sissy. He's brave when it comes to things he knows he's good at; fighting. But when it comes to leadership? He's been relying on Duncan for that, and your character is likely even younger than him and has even less leadership experience, yet he just hands the reins over to you. You're supposed to be the new recruit, the amateur, and with Duncan gone the role of mentor was supposed to pass to him. And he chickened out. He is a sissy.
I see you missed that I said their character. As in, the type of people they are. Not what they were wearing or what they did as a hobby or what they used in battle or any of that. I found their personalities to be pretty true to life, though.
#78
Posté 24 février 2013 - 07:53
Iansectcrusher
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Puh, they're still the only ones who fight the most important battle.
The battle of the birth-bed.
When men can fight that only then will we be seen as equal warriors.
The battle of the birth-bed.
When men can fight that only then will we be seen as equal warriors.
#79
Posté 24 février 2013 - 08:01
nightscrawl
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What is the point of this? The looks of the writers have nothing to do with their characters. If Tyrion Lannister were in front of me, yes the replusive, charming, witty, intelligent one from the novels, I would hug him and pet him and love him all day long.Oberkaiser wrote...
I wonder if any of you realize that you're discussing fictional characters written by a team of unattractive middle-aged white people? None of these characters are believable outside of a gaming session where you suspend disbelief.
Neither George R. R. Martin or Stephen King are, to me, great shakes, but I love the characters they write, whether they are sadistic bastards, unconventional heroes, or Ken (Jaime Lannister, who proved to be quite interesting) and Barbie.
#80
Posté 24 février 2013 - 08:27
Sibu
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Ophir147 wrote...
¡Question!
Can a character be a well written while also displaying largely stereotypical gender-specific behavior? Or are the two mutually exclusive?
You obviusly never meet
Brock Samson
#82
Posté 24 février 2013 - 08:47
Althix
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Sibu wrote...
Brock Samson
go ahead, take it from me
#83
Posté 24 février 2013 - 08:53
Fredward
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Alistair does whine a lot IMHO and not just about Duncan, about everything. -shrug- I don't really care. You get people like that. And he's endearing enough that I like him anyway.
#84
Guest_krul2k_*
Posté 24 février 2013 - 09:08
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i play games to immerse myself and get away from RL problems, i guess i need to change that stance going by the amount of ppl wanting to ruin my experience by introducing an tackling all of the RL issues in a game im supposed to relax an enjoy
#85
Posté 24 février 2013 - 09:09
Sibu
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secretsandlies wrote...
Sibu wrote...
Brock Samson
go ahead, take it from me
#86
Posté 24 février 2013 - 09:19
Sakanade
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I always manage to make Alistair stop whining at the Landsmeet, the hard way, with him dying.
Best part of the game.
That and burning redcliffe to the ground with zombies.
Best part of the game.
That and burning redcliffe to the ground with zombies.
Modifié par Sakanade, 24 février 2013 - 09:23 .
#87
Posté 24 février 2013 - 09:22
nightscrawl
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I think that if the time span (about a year) of DAO were taken into account, and also having conversations spaced out appropriately, that if it were real life he wouldn't come off quite as whiny. One flaw with the DAO conversation system is that I think it's tempting to talk to all of the companions and do most of their conversations in one sitting, or otherwise short amount of time.Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Alistair does whine a lot IMHO and not just about Duncan, about everything. -shrug- I don't really care. You get people like that. And he's endearing enough that I like him anyway.
I try to space them out when I play. If you have been traveling for most of the day, or if you have done something strenuous like the Battle of Redcliffe (awake for almost two days, pre and post fight), I'd think you'd be exhausted and only have enough energy to choke down some lamb and pea stew and pass out. Not a lot of time for conversation in those instances.
#88
Posté 24 février 2013 - 10:32
Zkyire
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DuckSoup wrote...
I see you missed that I said their character. As in, the type of people they are. Not what they were wearing or what they did as a hobby or what they used in battle or any of that. I found their personalities to be pretty true to life, though.
Oh.
I completely misread your post then.
#89
Posté 24 février 2013 - 10:34
Zkyire
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duckley wrote...
*snip*
All fair points.
#90
Posté 25 février 2013 - 12:55
Plaintiff
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No.Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...
What the hell? Did you just deny and confirm the accusation at the same time?
Reading comprehension. Learn some.
It certainly wouldn't hurt, but in your position I honestly wouldn't bother.So what you are saying that in order for men to be more attractive to the opposite sex is try to be like Alistair who wasnt created to appeal to the opposite sex? Is that what you are saying because that seriously looks what you are saying?
I was simply remarking on how humorous it is that so many sexist morons think that David Gaider created Alistair to be the ultimate chick magnet, using some sort of magical panty-dropping algorithim. But instead of following Gaider's blueprint to acheive success in their own love lives, which would at least be a productive use of their idiotic assumptions, they choose instead to hang around the internet and **** about him to each other, like jealous girls in the school cafeteria.
Alistair obviously is appealing to a number of women, as these boards and this very thread demonstrate. That does not mean that he was created to pander to stereotypically feminine tastes. In fact, he wasn't. Alistair was created to be likable generally, and as an unintentional side-effect, a lot of women, and gay men, like myself, find him attractive. And a lot of straight men enjoy his character too.
Wit, humour, optimism, honesty and sensitivity are admirable qualities for anyone to possess. All people would do well to try and be more like Alistair. And if it will help more men get laid into the bargain, then so much the better for them.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 février 2013 - 01:36 .
#91
Posté 25 février 2013 - 01:53
Xilizhra
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Well, minus the "I'm going to run out on the Wardens and become a wandering drunk if you don't kill someone I hate" part, I agree with you.Wit, humour, optimism, honesty and sensitivity are admirable qualities for anyone to possess. All people would do well to try and be more like Alistair. And if it will help more men get laid into the bargain, then so much the better for them.
#92
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:12
Plaintiff
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I dont really have a problem with that. I find Loghain to be a despicable person, motivation and past good deeds not withstanding, and I wouldn't be the friend or lover of someone who thought sparing him was a good idea either.Xilizhra wrote...
Well, minus the "I'm going to run out on the Wardens and become a wandering drunk if you don't kill someone I hate" part, I agree with you.Wit, humour, optimism, honesty and sensitivity are admirable qualities for anyone to possess. All people would do well to try and be more like Alistair. And if it will help more men get laid into the bargain, then so much the better for them.
Good character, yes, but simply an awful, awful human being.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 février 2013 - 02:13 .
#93
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:18
Xilizhra
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Maybe so, but I like to give people chances to redeem themselves, if possible. Also, I can't kill the helpless unless they're actually begging for it, and I've only done that twice over the entire series, to Danyla and Kelder.Plaintiff wrote...
I dont really have a problem with that. I find Loghain to be a despicable person, motivation and past good deeds not withstanding, and I wouldn't be the friend or lover of someone who thought sparing him was a good idea either.Xilizhra wrote...
Well, minus the "I'm going to run out on the Wardens and become a wandering drunk if you don't kill someone I hate" part, I agree with you.Wit, humour, optimism, honesty and sensitivity are admirable qualities for anyone to possess. All people would do well to try and be more like Alistair. And if it will help more men get laid into the bargain, then so much the better for them.
Good character, yes, but simply an awful, awful human being.
#94
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:21
Lenimph
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This just in I still think Alistair is a sissy. Just as much as Carth is if not more so. Oh yes I said it.
#95
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:26
Plaintiff
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His actions post-Ostagar just really zoom past my personal moral threshold. Even if I were to recruit him and have him sacrifice his life to defeat the archdemon, I would not consider him to be redeemed. I try to give people a chance to prove themseves, but I can't imagine that Loghain would ever be absolved of his sins in my eyes.Xilizhra wrote...
Maybe so, but I like to give people chances to redeem themselves, if possible. Also, I can't kill the helpless unless they're actually begging for it, and I've only done that twice over the entire series, to Danyla and Kelder.Plaintiff wrote...
I dont really have a problem with that. I find Loghain to be a despicable person, motivation and past good deeds not withstanding, and I wouldn't be the friend or lover of someone who thought sparing him was a good idea either.Xilizhra wrote...
Well, minus the "I'm going to run out on the Wardens and become a wandering drunk if you don't kill someone I hate" part, I agree with you.Wit, humour, optimism, honesty and sensitivity are admirable qualities for anyone to possess. All people would do well to try and be more like Alistair. And if it will help more men get laid into the bargain, then so much the better for them.
Good character, yes, but simply an awful, awful human being.
I appreciate that other people feel differently, but I just can't. There are few fictional characters that I despise as actively as Loghain.
#96
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:27
Xilizhra
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He lacks self-confidence as a leader, but he's quite a good person aside from that one hiccup I mentioned earlier, and a stalwart comrade-in-arms overall.Lenimph wrote...
This just in I still think Alistair is a sissy. Just as much as Carth is if not more so. Oh yes I said it.
Whether I forgive him personally is irrelevant; all that matters is whether he can do more good alive than dead. I suspect he can, especially with Alistair being king and having to leave active Wardening anyway.His actions post-Ostagar just really zoom past my personal moral
threshold. Even if I were to recruit him and have him sacrifice his life
to defeat the archdemon, I would not consider him to be redeemed. I try
to give people a chance to prove themseves, but I can't imagine that
Loghain would ever be absolved of his sins in my eyes.
Wait, in all of fiction? Why?I appreciate that other people feel differently, but I just can't. There
are few fictional characters that I despise as actively as Loghain.
Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 février 2013 - 02:28 .
#97
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:28
thats1evildude
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Xilizhra wrote...
Maybe so, but I like to give people chances to redeem themselves, if possible.
I have a golden rule: I always side with allies over the people who have tried to kill me or betrayed me.
Alistair was my friend. Loghain was my enemy. The decision was easy.
Xilizhra wrote...
Also, I can't kill the helpless unless they're actually begging for it, and I've only done that twice over the entire series, to Danyla and Kelder.
I sure can. I'll kill a man in just about any circumstance — in a fair fight, in an unfair fight, or if I think he's gonna start a fight, or if there's a woman, or if I'm getting paid. Mostly only when I'm getting paid.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 février 2013 - 02:28 .
#98
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:29
Xilizhra
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Yes, but it's not between killing Loghain or killing Alistair, it's between killing Loghain or angering Alistair.I have a golden rule: I always side with allies over the people who have tried to kill me or betrayed me.
Alistair was my friend. Loghain was my enemy. The decision was easy.
So you are, indeed, 1evildude.I sure can. I'll kill a man in just about any circumstance — in a fair fight, in an unfair fight, or if I think he's gonna start a fight, or if there's a woman, or if I'm getting paid. Mostly only when I'm getting paid.
#99
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:42
thats1evildude
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Xilizhra wrote...
So you are, indeed, 1evildude.
I sure am. I also like Firefly quite a bit.
But I didn't intend to turn this into another Loghain vs. Alistair discussion. On the topic of the thread, I don't have any issue with how men are depicted in Dragon Age. They can keep doing what they're doing.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 février 2013 - 02:42 .
#100
Posté 25 février 2013 - 02:43
Plaintiff
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Well, I'll concede that I'm not the most well-read person in the world. There may be many more despicable characters out there.Xilizhra wrote...
Wait, in all of fiction? Why?I appreciate that other people feel differently, but I just can't. There
are few fictional characters that I despise as actively as Loghain.
But I despise Loghain because he shows no remorse. Even at the last, he'll clutch at straws to justify his reprehensible actions. He's, I think, too proud and too selfish to concede that he might've ever made a poor decision. For this reason, I cannot respect him as a general, or even as a man.
The second is that, well, unlike other magnificent bastards in fiction, he's just not very charismatic. Complex he may be, but if I didn't hate him so much, I probably just wouldn't care about him at all.
