201 réponses à ce sujet

[azerSheppard]

legit lolz on here

[DukeFirewood]

There definitely needs to be balance between straight and gay men in DA.

What I did not like in DA2 was how almost every character was bisexual (I never played through all the romances). There needs to be a mix of straight and gay to get across a more diverse and intersting party. While playing DA:O I was actually very happy that Alistair was not gay as you could clearly see that was not in his character. He's one of my favourite characters in gaming. If you played as a male you got to develop a strong bond with Alistair, a brotherly bond, and by the end of the game if you fought the Archdemon, Alistair would honour your memory and at the same time you felt his pain. Not once did you get an awkward sexual tension. If you played as a female you got to see Alistair grow into a confident leader who made the ultimate sacrifice for true love.

The then had Zevren who was bisexual and you could see that in the way he spoke. Then you had the Dwarf (Forgot his name) who was a typical male stereotype.

So when it comes to DA3, I would love to see the diversity from DA:O return. I want to play as a male and a strong friendship to grow from it, I want him to fee like my brother. If I want some gay loving then I'd choose to romance the gay party member.

So I definitely think there needs to be stronger male characters in DA3, not every male expresses his feelings and not every male worries about how their hair looks. I'd like to see a return of strong men.

[Plaintiff]

DukeFirewood wrote...
Not once did you get an awkward sexual tension.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I don't know what version of DA:O you were playing. Alistair sure makes a lot of sexually suggestive comments to male wardens, considering his debilitating case of the not-gays.

not every male expresses his feelings and not every male worries about how their hair looks

Only the "weak" ones, apparently.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 février 2013 - 12:12 .

[DukeFirewood]

Plaintiff wrote...

DukeFirewood wrote...
Not once did you get an awkward sexual tension.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I don't know what version of DA:O you were playing. Alistair sure makes a lot of sexually suggestive comments to male wardens, considering his debilitating case of the not-gays.

I do not recall ever getting that feeling. Can you provide me with an example?

Only the "weak" ones, apparently.

Did I say only the weak ones? Think about that  carefully...

I'm merely stating that I'd prefer to have a male character that is more confident with being a male than a carbon copy of Anders, but I'm not saying make all men like that, I'd just like the option to play with a man who I think is a man.

Modifié par DukeFirewood, 25 février 2013 - 12:20 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

[Plaintiff]

DukeFirewood wrote...
I do not recall ever getting that feeling. Can you provide me with an example?

Have you ever licked a lamppost in winter?

Did I say only the weak ones? Think about that  carefully...

Yes, you did. Quite explicitly.

I definitely think there needs to be stronger male characters in DA3, not every male expresses his feelings and not every male worries about how their hair looks.

How else is anyone supposed to interpret that sentence? If you didn't mean to say that emotionally expressive men, and men that care about their looks are "weak", then why did you specifically single out those characteristics as being separate from the qualities of a "stronger male character"?

I'm merely stating that I'd prefer to have a male character that is more confident with being a male than a carbon copy of Anders,

The obvious implication being that emotionally open men are not confident with being men? That they must secretly wish to be women?

but I'm not saying make all men like that,

No, you're just saying that men who aren't like that are not "real" men. That possessing these qualities you dislike means that they are fake men.
 

I'd just like the option to play with a man who I think is a man.

And now you've gone from implying it to simply stating it outright. Bravo.

[Zkyire]

DukeFirewood wrote...

There definitely needs to be balance between straight and gay men in DA.

If I want some gay loving then I'd choose to romance the gay party member.

I'd like to see a return of strong men.

You're open to a gay relationship and you want to see more big, strong men.

What are you trying to tell us?


Nah, I kid.

[Redbelle]

Give me a stat boost for going topless and I'll turn my avatar into a berserker sword swinger who moisturisise's in a crimson mist surrounded by my enemies.

Really. Is there any reason to not to develop a shirt off option that is playable as a class? Or given that such a option would envariably extend to the female avater's is this just an idea that's already been shot down on account that giving the ladie's male eye candy would be drowned out by those saying that extending the same option to the female avatar's is a negative?

Can we just have a man only shirtless monk option then? He can keep the pant's.

Though considering I'd alter the avatar to look like Ross Kemp..... maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

[Plaintiff]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

Flirting is flirting. There is no way to know that Alistair is "only messing with you" until it becomes evident that a homosexual romance with him is impossible.

[Xilizhra]

If you played as a female you got to see Alistair grow into a confident leader who made the ultimate sacrifice for true love.

You do realize that not all female characters will romance Alistair, yes? The whole "brotherly" thing still basically works if you play a lesbian Warden.

[Zkyire]

Plaintiff wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

Flirting is flirting. There is no way to know that Alistair is "only messing with you" until it becomes evident that a homosexual romance with him is impossible.

Alistair is a heterosexual romance option only.

Therefore Alistair is heterosexual.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Plaintiff wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

Flirting is flirting. There is no way to know that Alistair is "only messing with you" until it becomes evident that a homosexual romance with him is impossible.

If you somehow miss the entire sarcastic tone of the conversation (and pretty much his entire character), sure. 

[Plaintiff]

Zkyire wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

Flirting is flirting. There is no way to know that Alistair is "only messing with you" until it becomes evident that a homosexual romance with him is impossible.

Alistair is a heterosexual romance option only.

Therefore Alistair is heterosexual.

This is metagame knowledge, and thus irrelevent.

There is no indication within the game itself that Alistair is incapable of being romanced by a man. Indeed, someone with no metagame knowledge might go through several playthroughs before realising the option is simply not present.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 février 2013 - 01:39 .

[Xilizhra]

Zkyire wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

Flirting is flirting. There is no way to know that Alistair is "only messing with you" until it becomes evident that a homosexual romance with him is impossible.

Alistair is a heterosexual romance option only.

Therefore Alistair is heterosexual.

People said that about Kaidan, too, and look how that turned out. Of course, Kaidan was originally intended to be bisexual, but the ME team got scared and backed out; luckily, it was restored.

[Plaintiff]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Alistair's just messing with you. Compare it to Anders, who's about ready to hump your leg in the first talk after recruitment.

Flirting is flirting. There is no way to know that Alistair is "only messing with you" until it becomes evident that a homosexual romance with him is impossible.

If you somehow miss the entire sarcastic tone of the conversation (and pretty much his entire character), sure. 

People often use sarcasm as a defense mechanism. It allows them to reveal their true feelings in words, but concealing them in tone.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, sexuality has no bearing whatsoever on any other aspect of someone's personality. Alistair could very easily have been written as bisexual or homosexual, with virtually no change to his character or personal arc, since his sexuality is also irrelevent to those.

The decision to make him heterosexual was a purely arbitrary one.

[SpunkyMonkey]

mousestalker wrote...

So I just read the thread on the role of women and considering that the Dragon Age series has an a mostly male design staff and appeals mostly to men I was just wondering what your thoughts on this were and what you think of the role of men in the Dragon Age series?

Is this really what men like to believe? That the women are so afraid of sensitive, caring men that they must reinforce the status quo by depicting males in video games as either violent and relegating them to being cardboard cutouts?

Where are the good caring men who enable their women to be better than they were before?

Whilst an noble POV, game-wise I just don't think having lots of sensitive men in the game is unrealistic.

I originally come from a rural mining area in the middle of England, and "soft" men are still frowned upon and looked down on there. It's a lot been a lot better in the past 10 years or so, but 20 years ago it was far more backwards.

Now that's the 1990's, imagine what a medival era attitude was like? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with it and the odd character did ought to have that type of personality for the sake of the game (nobles more so for sure). But I find it hard to invest much faith in a story where the land is trecherous, the monsters are rife, and the country is in turmoil but where peace loving, soft-centred men are common place.

Life was hard and times were tough back then, both males and females should have personalities to reflect that unless they come from more sheltered backgrounds IMO.

[Zkyire]

Plaintiff wrote...

This is metagame knowledge, and thus irrelevent.

Metagame knowledge is not irrelevent.

Plaintiff wrote...

There
is no indication within the game itself that Alistair is incapable of
being romanced by a man.

Except that he has no sexual relationships with men and expresses no desire to engage in sexual relationships with men.

Plaintiff wrote...
Indeed, for someone wit no metagame knowledge,
they might go through several playthroughs before realising the option
is simply not present.

And through those multiple playthroughs they come to the realisation that Alistair can only be romanced by a woman and is therefore heterosexual.

[Plaintiff]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

So I just read the thread on the role of women and considering that the Dragon Age series has an a mostly male design staff and appeals mostly to men I was just wondering what your thoughts on this were and what you think of the role of men in the Dragon Age series?

Is this really what men like to believe? That the women are so afraid of sensitive, caring men that they must reinforce the status quo by depicting males in video games as either violent and relegating them to being cardboard cutouts?

Where are the good caring men who enable their women to be better than they were before?

Whilst an noble POV, game-wise I just don't think having lots of sensitive men in the game is unrealistic.

I originally come from a rural mining area in the middle of England, and "soft" men are still frowned upon and looked down on there. It's a lot been a lot better in the past 10 years or so, but 20 years ago it was far more backwards.

Now that's the 1990's, imagine what a medival era attitude was like? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with it and the odd character did ought to have that type of personality for the sake of the game (nobles more so for sure). But I find it hard to invest much faith in a story where the land is trecherous, the monsters are rife, and the country is in turmoil but where peace loving, soft-centred men are common place.

Life was hard and times were tough back then, both males and females should have personalities to reflect that unless they come from more sheltered backgrounds IMO.

But Thedas is a fantasy world. "What things were like in the real middle ages" only has as much bearing on the characters and the setting as the writers want it to.

Society in Thedas has developed differently, in some very obvious and drastic ways. Rather than assuming that "Thedas society is like medieval society until otherwise stated", it would make more sense to do the opposite.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Plaintiff wrote...
Contrary to what you apparently believe, sexuality has no bearing whatsoever on any other aspect of someone's personality. Alistair could very easily have been written as bisexual or homosexual, with virtually no change to his character or personal arc, since his sexuality is also irrelevent to those.

Do you have any scientific evidence for this hypothesis?

[Plaintiff]

Zkyire wrote...
Metagame knowledge is not irrelevent.

It's absolutely irrelevent. And in fact, no concluive knowledge about Alistair's sexuality exists, meta or otherwise, except in the mind of the writer who conceived him.

Except that he has no sexual relationships with men and expresses no desire to engage in sexual relationships with men.

The same can be said of many homosexuals. Simply failing to express or explore the desire does not mean it doesn't exist. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

And through those multiple playthroughs they come to the realisation that Alistair can only be romanced by a woman and is therefore heterosexual.

Actually, it proves nothing, except that Alistair doesn't want a relationship with any of my male wardens. The possibility that he may be bisexual and simply not attracted to my character is still a very real one.

[Plaintiff]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Contrary to what you apparently believe, sexuality has no bearing whatsoever on any other aspect of someone's personality. Alistair could very easily have been written as bisexual or homosexual, with virtually no change to his character or personal arc, since his sexuality is also irrelevent to those.

Do you have any scientific evidence for this hypothesis?

Scientific evidence is not required. The truth is self-evident to anyone who is not a bigot or a drooling moron.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 février 2013 - 01:49 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

Plaintiff wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

So I just read the thread on the role of women and considering that the Dragon Age series has an a mostly male design staff and appeals mostly to men I was just wondering what your thoughts on this were and what you think of the role of men in the Dragon Age series?

Is this really what men like to believe? That the women are so afraid of sensitive, caring men that they must reinforce the status quo by depicting males in video games as either violent and relegating them to being cardboard cutouts?

Where are the good caring men who enable their women to be better than they were before?

Whilst an noble POV, game-wise I just don't think having lots of sensitive men in the game is unrealistic.

I originally come from a rural mining area in the middle of England, and "soft" men are still frowned upon and looked down on there. It's a lot been a lot better in the past 10 years or so, but 20 years ago it was far more backwards.

Now that's the 1990's, imagine what a medival era attitude was like? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with it and the odd character did ought to have that type of personality for the sake of the game (nobles more so for sure). But I find it hard to invest much faith in a story where the land is trecherous, the monsters are rife, and the country is in turmoil but where peace loving, soft-centred men are common place.

Life was hard and times were tough back then, both males and females should have personalities to reflect that unless they come from more sheltered backgrounds IMO.

But Thedas is a fantasy world. "What things were like in the real middle ages" only has as much bearing on the characters and the setting as the writers want it to.

Society in Thedas has developed differently, in some very obvious and drastic ways. Rather than assuming that "Thedas society is like medieval society until otherwise stated", it would make more sense to do the opposite.

You make a very valid counter-point, and that's why I think the game can allow for quite a bit of flexability regards it - certainly I don't think you have to paint a 100% realistic picture of a medival setting.

However, one of the reasons everyone seems so obsessed with TWI2 of late is due to it's more realistic, gritty approach to that time period, and I just think that having that sense of realism makes it easier to connect with the game as generally we already have a preconcieved idea of what such a world is like.

I also think common sense dictates that a world full of such perils would breed hardy folk all-round. Sorry, but to survive amongst such beasts and in such a time of so much conflict I don't think a lot of people would have the room for "softness".

As you say, the world is fantasy and magical, so maybe mages could be more senstitive etc., but for example I'd struggle to beleive that a warrior, someone who's been brought up maiming, killing, slaughtering and in constant conflict, would be someone who was inclined to show their sensitive side instead of just taking what they want.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 25 février 2013 - 01:56 .

[Xilizhra]

I also think common sense dictates that a world full of such perils would breed hardy folk all-round. Sorry, but to survive amongst such beasts and in such a time of so much conflict I don't think a lot of people would have the room for "softness".

How is Alistair even soft? Just look at his body count. He's rather pleasant in personality, but I don't think that's the same thing.

As you say, the world is fantasy and magical, so maybe mages could be more senstitive etc., but for example I'd struggle to beleive that a warrior, someone who's been brought up maiming, killing, slaughtering and in constant conflict, would be someone who was inclined to show their sensitive side instead of just taking what they want.

His primary training is as a warrior against the darkspawn, whom you don't have to suspend your moral code to kill because they're basically mindless, as well as inherently destructive. The Grey Wardens are effectively vermin exterminators, albeit very well-equipped and -trained ones.o

[Paul E Dangerously]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
As you say, the world is fantasy and magical, so maybe mages could be more senstitive etc., but for example I'd struggle to beleive that a warrior, someone who's been brought up maiming, killing, slaughtering and in constant conflict, would be someone who was inclined to show their sensitive side instead of just taking what they want.

Alistair isn't exactly a hardened veteran. He hasn't been a Warden for that  long, and spent most of his life living in the Chantry, and the last part of that training to be a Templar. He's had some combat training and experience, but I wouldn't exactly say he was brought up to be a warrior.

Modifié par Sopa de Gato, 25 février 2013 - 02:10 .

[SpunkyMonkey]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...
As
you say, the world is fantasy and magical, so maybe mages could be more
senstitive etc., but for example I'd struggle to beleive that a warrior,
someone who's been brought up maiming, killing, slaughtering and in
constant conflict, would be someone who was inclined to show their
sensitive side instead of just taking what they want.

Alistair isn't exactly a hardened veteran. He hasn't been a Warden for that  long,
and spent most of his life living in the Chantry, and the last part of
that training to be a Templar. He's had some combat training and
experience, but I wouldn't exactly say he was brought up to be a
warrior.

This kinda answers Xilizhra's point above - when you meet Alistair he's not an A-typical warrior. Also he does get "hardened" throught the game - his own story is that of becoming tougher and stronger.

Alistair was done so, so, so well that it fit in to place very nicely. But he was definitely an exception and not the rule, and that's a balance I'd like to see return.

I'd just find it hard to believe that a world full of horrors would be inhabited by a majority of warriors and people of Alistairs ilk. I guess my point is that the odd Alistair is fine if done right, but there must be plenty more Sten/Ogreh types to counter balance that throughout the game.

Modifié par SpunkyMonkey, 25 février 2013 - 02:23 .