427 réponses à ce sujet

[Acerlux]

On one hand I'm really only a Mass Effect guy (having just started Dragon Age) and there's a part of me that feels uneasy about whole-heartedly condemning them after I've only been burned once. But on the other hand, I got attached and cared about the Mass Effect universe more than I have any other IP and the way they chose to end it still has me bitter a year later. So I'll play it by ear. I just hope they learn from it.

[Hexley UK]

Acerlux wrote...

On one hand I'm really only a Mass Effect guy (having just started Dragon Age) and there's a part of me that feels uneasy about whole-heartedly condemning them after I've only been burned once. But on the other hand, I got attached and cared about the Mass Effect universe more than I have any other IP and the way they chose to end it still has me bitter a year later. So I'll play it by ear. I just hope they learn from it.

Thanks for the input, hope you enjoy Dragon Age the first one is pretty damn awesome.

[Soul Tumor]

http://m.youtube.com...I&feature=plpp#

[LordRaptor]

I would consider myself hopeful, but cautious. I have no intention of preordering Bioware games at this time, but I still want them to be as magical as I remember.

[j78]

Absolutely not. The citadel DLC feels like a cheap and easy way to appeases the angry masses .what do most of us want more interaction with charters we’ve come to love over the years. Well we got it I just hope BW pays the proper respect to these charters and not deepened on nostalgia to carry the story like most of ME3

[LordRaptor]

j78 wrote...

Absolutely not. The citadel DLC feels like a cheap and easy way to appeases the angry masses .what do most of us want more interaction with charters we’ve come to love over the years. Well we got it I just hope BW pays the proper respect to these charters and not deepened on nostalgia to carry the story like most of ME3

How does it seem cheap or easy?  Not undermining your point, I'm just wondering if there's a little too much assuming going on due to negative viewpoints and in other cases positive viewpoints.  Objectivity seems rare on BSN lol j/k.

[Hexley UK]

j78 wrote...

Absolutely not. The citadel DLC feels like a cheap and easy way to appeases the angry masses .what do most of us want more interaction with charters we’ve come to love over the years. Well we got it I just hope BW pays the proper respect to these charters and not deepened on nostalgia to carry the story like most of ME3

I agree, it seems like a way to give a fair number of people some of the things they wanted in the first place without actually fixing the main problem i.e the ending, and charging them all $15 for it of course.

[Drewton]

Not after the Citadel announcement and Chris Priestly's tweets. Not at all.

[Kunari801]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...

Can you ever trust anyone to finish a story that you've become invested in in exactly the way you'd want?

But yes, as much as is possible.

MEHEM and Marauder Shields say hi. It is entirely possible to end a story in a satisfying way without getting absolutely everything perfect. Tacking on the ending from another game without making any effort to knit it into your game is a recipe for disaster, however. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, Youtube the ending for Deus Ex. Or watch the video mashup someone made of their endings: Shepard talking to the computer from Deus Ex. The two games' endings are so nearly identical that the resulting conversation is coherent.)

^- What Reth said.  

[Kunari801]

Hexley UK wrote...

j78 wrote...

Absolutely not. The citadel DLC feels like a cheap and easy way to appeases the angry masses .what do most of us want more interaction with charters we’ve come to love over the years. Well we got it I just hope BW pays the proper respect to these charters and not deepened on nostalgia to carry the story like most of ME3

I agree, it seems like a way to give a fair number of people some of the things they wanted in the first place without actually fixing the main problem i.e the ending, and charging them all $15 for it of course.

Let's say they did change the endings with the Citadel DLC.  Can you imagine what the outrage would be?  I can. Note that I'm a high-ems destroy fan and I still totally hate the endings even with the EC, I dislike them.

The EC was an emotional bandaid that did basically nothing to address the logical flaws in the endings (and even opened a few new ones)

Citadel is likely another emotional bandaid to give us a little more time with the characters we've grown to love.

No, I don't really trust BW on endings right now. Time will tell but BW games will no longer get the automatic pre-order they used to.

Modifié par Kunari801, 28 février 2013 - 02:32 .

[j78]

LordRaptor wrote...

j78 wrote...

Absolutely not. The citadel DLC feels like a cheap and easy way to appeases the angry masses .what do most of us want more interaction with charters we’ve come to love over the years. Well we got it I just hope BW pays the proper respect to these charters and not deepened on nostalgia to carry the story like most of ME3

How does it seem cheap or easy?  Not undermining your point, I'm just wondering if there's a little too much assuming going on due to negative viewpoints and in other cases positive viewpoints.  Objectivity seems rare on BSN lol j/k.

So many fans wanted more depth from relationships built in the prior games . ME3 seem to leave a lot of people feeling like the investment in friendships relationships were lacking in depth. Extended cut I love you scene before the beam cheap ploy .That’s what this DLC feels like to me .I’m just hoping that it feels like a it’s adding something to the characters .

[LordRaptor]

Kunari801 wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...

Can you ever trust anyone to finish a story that you've become invested in in exactly the way you'd want?

But yes, as much as is possible.

MEHEM and Marauder Shields say hi. It is entirely possible to end a story in a satisfying way without getting absolutely everything perfect. Tacking on the ending from another game without making any effort to knit it into your game is a recipe for disaster, however. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, Youtube the ending for Deus Ex. Or watch the video mashup someone made of their endings: Shepard talking to the computer from Deus Ex. The two games' endings are so nearly identical that the resulting conversation is coherent.)

^- What Reth said.  

No I don't think you can please everyone, but that is one big reason why so many people are frustrated with Bioware.  They did not even try for diversity.  They promised 16 unique endings and we received 3-4 carbon copy endings pre EC and 4-5 post EC.  Even with the slides they are basically the same.  Having a variety of endings ranging from horrible defeat to heroic victory would have given more people more options to try and find to their liking.  They could have ignored this basic one ending we did receive.

[Iakus]

Kunari801 wrote...

The EC was an emotional bandaid that did basically nothing to address the logical flaws in the endings (and even opened a few new ones)

Citadel is likely another emotional bandaid to give us a little more time with the characters we've grown to love.

No, I don't really trust BW on endings right now. Time will tell but BW games will no longer get the automatic pre-order they used to.

Kind of hard to believe the same company made DAO just a few years prior, huh?

Modifié par iakus, 28 février 2013 - 02:48 .

[LordRaptor]

iakus wrote...

Kunari801 wrote...

The EC was an emotional bandaid that did basically nothing to address the logical flaws in the endings (and even opened a few new ones)

Citadel is likely another emotional bandaid to give us a little more time with the characters we've grown to love.

No, I don't really trust BW on endings right now. Time will tell but BW games will no longer get the automatic pre-order they used to.

Kind of hard to believe the same company made DAO just a few years prior, huh?

Yeah.  The varied conclusions of DA:O felt unique.  You could have the tragic death, or bypass it with a little shag and be the stalwart hero who survives.  Either option was viable.  I actually chose to sacrifice my character.  My Warden would not submit to demonic rituals while trying to defeat another demon...kind of like not acquiescing to a Reaper Overmind while trying to defeat Reapers...

[Reth Shepherd]

LordRaptor wrote...

No I don't think you can please everyone, but that is one big reason why so many people are frustrated with Bioware.  They did not even try for diversity.  They promised 16 unique endings and we received 3-4 carbon copy endings pre EC and 4-5 post EC.  Even with the slides they are basically the same.  Having a variety of endings ranging from horrible defeat to heroic victory would have given more people more options to try and find to their liking.  They could have ignored this basic one ending we did receive.

To be fair, that 16 unique endings is one of the things that CAN'T be laid at Bioware's door. IGN was the one who came up with that particular piece of nonsense. What Bioware DID promise was:

Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”

“Every decision you’ve made will impact how things go. The player’s also the architect of what happens.”
“You’ll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we’re going to provide some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it’s being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn’t make”

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that’s very different based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?” Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C…..The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them. We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”

[Iakus]

LordRaptor wrote...

Yeah.  The varied conclusions of DA:O felt unique.  You could have the tragic death, or bypass it with a little shag and be the stalwart hero who survives.  Either option was viable.  I actually chose to sacrifice my character.  My Warden would not submit to demonic rituals while trying to defeat another demon...kind of like not acquiescing to a Reaper Overmind while trying to defeat Reapers...

Or you could redeem the primary villain and let him save the day.

Or allow a friend to die in your place.

Al have their benefits and drawbacks.  None felt like massive war crimes based on insane troll logic.

[LordRaptor]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

LordRaptor wrote...

No I don't think you can please everyone, but that is one big reason why so many people are frustrated with Bioware.  They did not even try for diversity.  They promised 16 unique endings and we received 3-4 carbon copy endings pre EC and 4-5 post EC.  Even with the slides they are basically the same.  Having a variety of endings ranging from horrible defeat to heroic victory would have given more people more options to try and find to their liking.  They could have ignored this basic one ending we did receive.

To be fair, that 16 unique endings is one of the things that CAN'T be laid at Bioware's door. IGN was the one who came up with that particular piece of nonsense. What Bioware DID promise was:

Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”

“Every decision you’ve made will impact how things go. The player’s also the architect of what happens.”
“You’ll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we’re going to provide some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it’s being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn’t make”

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that’s very different based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?” Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C…..The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them. We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”

Accurate and fair.  I suppose my general point was, any variety would have been preferrable.  Take Kotor for example.  If choosing the lightside would have meant you kept the starforge anyway and attacked the republic with it anyway, for...reasons...as happens in the dark side ending, would you have been fine with it?  It's technically a different ending because you're attacking for a different reason...but in truth it would be unfulfilling and exactly the same.

[Rudy Lis]

Gedgehog wrote...

If you guys don't trust them and are still so outraged by the ending situation of last year, it really does beg the question of why you are all still here.

Who says we're here because of bioware? We're here because of great community. Sort of "why write 15 e-mails about "put_favorite_character_name_here" and then gather and process replies, while you can write one post and gather everything in one place?"

Gedgehog wrote...

No disrespect intended, but is being constantly hateful really healthy?

No disrespect intended either, but from guy with Zaeed as avatar such question sounds strange. At least. Rage is a hell of an anesthetic, you know.

Hexley UK wrote...

But players like micro-transactions....didn't you hear?

You better tell me why EA constantly whine about "Steam policy towards DLCs" or "Steam discount devaluate art", but they don't remove Steam's 15% cut off game prices in their own homey porrigin? They don't have to pay Steam there, cut the price down. But no.

[Hexley UK]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Gedgehog wrote...

If you guys don't trust them and are still so outraged by the ending situation of last year, it really does beg the question of why you are all still here.

Who says we're here because of bioware? We're here because of great community. Sort of "why write 15 e-mails about "put_favorite_character_name_here" and then gather and process replies, while you can write one post and gather everything in one place?"

Gedgehog wrote...

No disrespect intended, but is being constantly hateful really healthy?

No disrespect intended either, but from guy with Zaeed as avatar such question sounds strange. At least. Rage is a hell of an anesthetic, you know.

Hexley UK wrote...

But players like micro-transactions....didn't you hear?

You better tell me why EA constantly whine about "Steam policy towards DLCs" or "Steam discount devaluate art", but they don't remove Steam's 15% cut off game prices in their own homey porrigin? They don't have to pay Steam there, cut the price down. But no.

Hence why I rarely (only ever bought the BF3 Elite pass or whatever it's called) buy anything from Origin, it's a damn ripoff most of the time.

[Exeider]

Hexley UK wrote...

Personally given how bad the ending was and with a new ME game on it's way that's almost certainly going to be the start of a new series of stories I find it hard to trust that they won't just blow it all again in the finale especially the last 10 minutes.

BW's lack of acknowledgment that there was even a problem with the ending and their reaction to the backlash only makes me even more wary as it seems they actually made that pathetic ending intentionally and actually thought it was good.....I find that exceedingly worrying.

So unless reviews (player reviews) are stellar I shall almost certainly pass.

On the other hand I really enjoyed ME1 and 2 as i'm sure many did.

What do you guys think?

Can BW be trusted with another £100 of your money and another 100+ hours of your time?

Also watch this...does this inspire faith? www.youtube.com/watch just astounding.....

LordRaptor's Poll on the subject social.bioware.com/1077403/polls/43882/

No, they cannot. The very nature of how FINAL they made the ending precludes the possibility of returning to this universe in any logical way. Because that would require them to pull a Deus Ex Invisible war, and either pick an ending, Thus making your sense of choice pointless, or come up with some bastardized version of all three endings taking the mutual exclusivity out of them and again, making you concept of choice pointless.

I mean when they made these endings they wrote themselves into such a corner that I, along with the many, regardless of your opinion of the endings, figured this is it, there is going to be NO MORE Mass Effect ever. period. The endings don't just end Shepard's story, but the universe as a whole, there is NO way you are going to be able to return to this universe and feel like it's slipping on an old pair of confortable sneakers like going from ME 1 to ME2 was.

The point is Bioware killed off the series, for whatever reason, they didn't want to do anymore, they wanted a spectacular and controversial finish, whatever. The point is, now they are trying to go back and open an avenue for continuation, and we are like 'Nu-uh, you made this bed, now you should sleep in it.' Bioware doesn't get to F up one of the greatest series I have ever had the fortune of playing and then get a do over. Sorry Bioware, you screwed up, then tried to stand behind the screw up by crying out 'Artistic Integrity' and now your going back and saying 'OK, well our bosses want a new Mass Effect, so now we have to make one.' Well where is your BullSh!7 'Artistic Integrity' now? HUH?.......Yeah, that's what I thought, it went out the window as soon as your Masters at EA tugged on your leash.

This is EXACTLY the situation that Anti-enders had with the ending, because it upset so much, disturbed so much thematically with the story and the universe, that there is no logical way to go back except with MORE (Space Magic)

You have taken what could of been the Star Wars of our time, a story SO rich and good, in the universe with such depth and scope that you could of made BILLIONS more, with the movie rights, TV rights, etc. But no, sorry that interest has gone out the window now that we have THAT as an ending, no one is going to watch the Mass Effect movie trilogy if THAT is what is waiting for them at the end of the third movie.

I don't understand how EA could of let that happen, I know they don't care about quality at all, but the fact that they didn't review it at least on the reasoning of the "ending costing us money" part, I mean where the heck did EAs immoral and imortal profit motive go? Did they just decide, 'yeah let's just really stick it to gamers, even if it does cost us money in the end.'

Because that is the only thing I can really think of putting myself in the profit motive mindset, it just shows that there are some extremly imcompetant people working at EA/Bioware, because even from a greed based profit motive, the ending was a bad idea. I mean when you have the Artistic writer, greedy businessman, and gaming enthusist able to come to the same conclusion and agree, albeit for different reasons, THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING! That should tell you that maybe, just maybe, this is a bad idea. But NOPE, Bioware decided to try and polish up this turd and try to convince us it's a rose, then insult the people as "unartistic" and "you just don't understand" when people try to point out that this is a steaming pile of sh!7 and that the emperor has no clothes, using arguements that have more logic holes then a JJ Abrahms flick and a language and a double think process that would make George Orwell blush.

And apparently it worked too because you actually have people buying into your BS, and even defending it as their own. I've never seen such a more blatant case of mind control and psycholoigcal manipulation than this, but then again it doesn't surprise me since most people who fell for it, don't realize they have been psycholocially programmed since birth to accept such lies and BS as a matter of course, so all you have done Bioware is just tap into that, you didn't put it there, but you certainly made use of it.

So, in the end, and to answer your question OP, is No, Bioware is not trustworthy, I wouldn't trust them to program Hello Kitty Online let along another Mass Effect game of any real worthy or quality.

I'm sure they will make it, and I'm sure they will come up with a BS reason as to WHY the universe isn't broken, and I'm sure alot of people willl buy it, thus proving again that the vast majority of so called "gamers" out there are tasteless consumers as they are often accused of being, just like in the EA in a Nutshell video says they are, and of course they will be fooled, they will fall in love again, only to be crushed again at the end of the whole thing, and then wonder WHY it happened.

It's like being with an abusive Boy/Girlfriend, they make excuses, apologize, promise to change, beg and plead for you not to go, then they do it again and again and again, until you either realize they won't change and leave, or they finnaly finish the job and kill you.

Well sorry EA/Bioware, I'm not going to stay in this relationship anymore, you've hurt me too many times, and I've had it. I loved you in the past, we had some great times together, but the truth is, you've become an abusive piece of sh!7, and you are completely unrepentant about it.  I'm sure someone else won't mind it, and may even crave the abuse, but know that it is an unhealthy relationship and ultimately it will come back 10 fold on you. I beg and plead to you to seek help, and turn back into a better and worthwile company again. But I know the odds of that are very low unless YOU want to change.

Good Luck and godspeed, and may god have mercy on your soul.
-AE

[Rudy Lis]

Hexley UK wrote...

Hence why I rarely (only ever bought the BF3 Elite pass or whatever it's called) buy anything from Origin, it's a damn ripoff most of the time.

Rip-off, huh? How bout dem telling me they can't return me money because of my race? Not any other reason, but that. I mean, when they took my perfectly functioning money for their faulty software they cannot fix, my race was pretty fine. But when it came to providing support for abovementioned faulty software (don't mind several months delay, yes, months), and, failing that, moneyback, they told me they don't return money to people of my kind. Ain't that fcuking great? I want to second that turian from Citadel in ME2.

Speaking of race. Real Racing 3, to be more specific. To play (and complete) this so called "free to play" you'll have to pay more than 500 bucks (yes, five-zero-zero), or invest even greater amount of hours (minimum stated to but 472, but that's spherical ideal conditions in vacuum). And EA plans to add microtransactions in all of their future games.

I don't think I need to add anything to it.

[OneMore1968]

Well this article was written shortly after the release of ME3.
www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/ 
 
It was never verified but does if genuine give insight into at least one writer's feelings on the project.  I totally agree with a lot of what he says, especially your companions.  This is a part of ME3 that does feel as though it was rushed.  At certain places where you would expect squadmates to comment, there is little or no dialogue.

When Drew Karpyshan left to pursue his writing career, I do believe we lost some of the consistency and continuity, that is a given.  He was lead writer for ME and ME2 plus three if the spin-off books. and  if you read some of his blogs, he and the other writers had planned on taking the game in a different direction.

We are at a point in time now where we have outstanding graphics.  Original RPG had to rely on the story and conversation/interaction with characters because the graphics were a lot poorer.  Now we are getting closer to photo-realistic environments.  I think the models are a way off because the animation isn't there yet to provide all the subtle body language and facial inflections. 

Both the writing and visual parts of the game are very expensive.  And depending on the goal of the people in charge one is going to be sidelined to a certain extent because of the constraints of a budget.  At the present time focus is on graphics and combat

[Ghaleon]

I do not trust Casey Hudson and Mac Walters to finish one properly, but Bioware as a whole? possibly they are different teams can't really blame whole company for the mistake of two employees.

Will i pre order and buy Collectors Editions or regular version of games from bioware with no reviews? never again i will make sure games reviewed thoroughly first check endings etc to make sure none of the ME3 BS then buy if meets expectations.

Modifié par Ghaleon80, 28 février 2013 - 10:59 .

[Reth Shepherd]

Interview with Mac

Mac Walters said...

Regarding the ending, and I kind of said it before, we released the Extended Edition endings and they obviously added a lot to it that the fans were looking for. I think that, hindsight being 20/20, we set out to make the best game we knew how as we always do. I think given the timeframes that we had to deliver it, we delivered on that. Even when you look back on it now, like you said, to take time and look back over the year, the game is still rated at a 93 on Metacritic. People love the story, they love the characters, and while people had issues with the ending, many people have understood -- sometimes with the help of the Extended Cut -- where we were trying to go with that. But I still feel we delivered on the story that we always intended to and I'm very proud of the progress and all the work the team did to get there.

Here is your answer, people. Bioware learned nothing. Bioware will be changing nothing. So no, they will not be magically improving their storytelling ability in the forseeable future. What a d*mn shame.

[babachewie]

i trust butthurts to continue to whine about it even a year later and still buy the sequel anyway