169 réponses à ce sujet

[ohaithere]

Since 3 came out I've started to treat each game like a stand alone, so when it comes to ME2 not advancing the plot that much it doesn't really matter to me anymore.

I agree that there were a lot of squaddies but as someone mentioned above, you don't need all of them. I think having some stereotypical squadmates is a necessary evil; we might not like them the way others do and vice versa.

The one big problem I had with 2 is that it never felt like the Collectors were a real threat.

[Village_Idiot]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Knowing what we know now, ME2 is certainly in need of an overhauled plot.

It's an unfortunate limitation of the video game as a storytelling device, at least insofar as doing a trilogy or sequels goes.

Whilst the interactivity of a video game is what makes ME so great, in that its character interaction and plot feels that much more personal to the player, it's also the source of what I perceive as its greatest flaw- in that as video games, each instalment has to be standalone.

Believe me, I'd like nothing more than for each ME title to flow seamlessly into each other without having to resort to a reset button each time (Shep's death in ME2, and imprisonment in ME3). It led to encapsulated plots and ultimately ME2 being relatively pointless. But the fact is, they've got to market these games to new players, and make them more accessible. It's an evil, but a necessary one.

Though admittedly, I felt ME3 was far more personalised to an imported character than ME2 ever was.

Modifié par Shadrach 88, 24 février 2013 - 07:29 .

[ohaithere]

I'd love to hear from someone who played 3 before the other 2. I can't imagine giving a damn when anyone died or anything bad happened if I hadn't gone through the long journey of playing the first two games.

[Pee Jae]

I loved ME2. It was the first ME I played. It hooked me from the demo. However...

It does seem like the main story isn't as important as finding and gaining the loyalty of your new squadmates.

Tali is sidelined for half of the game. (much like ME3,harrumph)

Liara, Ash/Kaidan, Wrex are taken away from you. So they can be "preserved" for ME3. Everyone else is expendable.

That annoying conversation bug.

There's probably more but I just got up.

Modifié par t_skwerl, 24 février 2013 - 07:21 .

[Wulfram]

chemiclord wrote...

The big problem with ME2 is that it forces ME3 to have to resolve a LOT of the storyline all in one game.

You can damn near literally remove ME2 ENTIRELY, and not impact the central plot of stopping the reapers in the slightest. The story of ME2 spins its wheels and goes exactly nowhere fast.

I actually think ME3 would have worked a lot better as a direct sequel to ME1.  The whole Synthetics vs Organics stuff would have made more sense as a central theme, and generally I'd say ME3 Cerberus fit better with ME1 Cerberus.

[knightnblu]

I actually liked ME2, aside from my VS LI losing her mind. That was really the only disappointment that I had with the game.

[Seboist]

Apart from being completely pointless ME2's plot (such as it was) was utterly nonsensical.

- TIM has no compelling reason to revive Shepard (especially a Paragon one)

- Lazarus is just a cheap contrivance to fast forward two years, break up the squad and get Shepard to work with Cerberus and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality or identity and absolutely nobody gives a damn that death itself has been cured.

- The whole bit about recruiting a squad to fight a land war in space against a complete unknown through a relay nobody has ventured to and from is idiotic. For all they know there's an armada of Collector ships on the other side.

- You're given absolutely no compelling reason why you should be recruiting these people in the first place. Why do I need a assassin or a master thief when you end up never using their particular talents? Might as well have recruited an Elvis impersonator for all that it mattered.

- for a "character driven story" it's bizarre how most companions don't even recognize each others' mere existence.

- The game wants me to believe the Collectors are capable of harvesting the entire human race (lol) but at the same time shows them fleeing from a few AA guns and their ship gets taken out with ease by an unupgraded SR-2.

-  The bit about Collectors turning humans into liquid goo to create a "genetically diverse" three eyed space termintor is just..... wow. It's on par with aliens raising the death in order to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe in "Plan 9 from outer space".

- It butchers the lore and setting in numerous ways with one obvious one being the comic book inspired silly outfits that make no sense. When Catwoman's oufit makes more sense in her setting than the outfits characters wear in your "science fiction" story then you know it's lost credibility in it's genre.

TL:DR: ME2 was the death knell of the franchise that lead to all the problems in ME3.

Modifié par Seboist, 25 février 2013 - 12:05 .

[BD Manchild]

The game's my favourite of the trilogy, and one of my favourites of this generation. However, the plot's just disconnected from the rest of the series. Honestly, you could probably skip ME2 entirely and it wouldn't make a difference to the overall storyline.

[WheatleyHQ]

I did have a problem with it, after ME3 came out. In ME2, the introduced the Dark Matter theory. In ME3, they buried that idea under 12 feet of dirt. My problem is; why introduce something, and not even mention it in the next game?

[Knight of Dane]

Loved gameplay and the characters.

Got bored with the plot.

[Steelcan]

It's filler, it's plot and main villain are poorly implemented, and too many daddy issues.

That said its still my favorite in the trilogy

[VibrantYacht]

ohaithere wrote...
Since 3 came out I've started to treat each game like a stand alone, so when it comes to ME2 not advancing the plot that much it doesn't really matter to me anymore.

I don't think you can really do that... It's all Shepard's story and plot points are effected from one game to the next. They're connected and shouldn't really be viewed as stand alone. It's the Shepard trilogy. 

As others have said, my biggest problem was that at the end of ME2 we're at the same point as we are at the end of ME1. I found that frustrating. 

As I said, I don't think it's really... hmm... right to look at them as standalone. Certainly they're worked on at different times but that's it. It's all part of the same story and in the second act that story goes nowhere. It's a detour. 

[DetcelferVisionary]

You can criticize ME2 all you want, but at the end of the day, its still one of the greatest video games in history.

[VibrantYacht]

DetcelferVisionary wrote...

You can criticize ME2 all you want, but at the end of the day, its still one of the greatest video games in history.

This one disagrees. But to each his own.

[Village_Idiot]

DetcelferVisionary wrote...

You can criticize ME2 all you want, but at the end of the day, its still one of the greatest video games in history.

Subjective. Along with every other post here, mine included. I'd suggest being a bit more constructive- tell use why you think this, as opposed to just stating it.

[hiraeth]

I loved ME2--it's my favorite game in the series. My biggest complaint is not enough contact with ME1 characters (especially Kaidan/Ashley). I was essentially forced to trust an entire new crew, with the exception of Garrus/Tali/Joker, which ended up working out well because I love the ME2 characters, but I kept wanting more interaction with Kaidan/Wrex/Liara. Other than not enough ME1-character content, though, I have no other huge problems with it.

[Tempest_]

The only thing I disliked was the planet scanning.

10/10 game in my opinion and my favourite of the series.

[ohaithere]

Vibrant, when I say I treat them as stand alones, I mean when it comes to characters. I agree that 2 didn't advance the plot at all, but if it were a separate game it would be fantastic. 3 didn't end the series well, but I still loved it. Once you put them all together they leave a lot to be desired.

[Dean_the_Young]

Wulfram wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

The big problem with ME2 is that it forces ME3 to have to resolve a LOT of the storyline all in one game.

You can damn near literally remove ME2 ENTIRELY, and not impact the central plot of stopping the reapers in the slightest. The story of ME2 spins its wheels and goes exactly nowhere fast.

I actually think ME3 would have worked a lot better as a direct sequel to ME1.  The whole Synthetics vs Organics stuff would have made more sense as a central theme, and generally I'd say ME3 Cerberus fit better with ME1 Cerberus.

You know what makes it even funnier?

ME2 could have been placed before ME1, and with a few tweaks in the dialogue it would have made just as much sense. ME2 has pretty much all the same setting dynamics as ME1: the Alliance is alone and its frontier in danger the face of an unprovoked but advanced alien threat. The Council refuses to help for fears of the Terminus. The task for chasing down the threat rests on one team operating outside of the law.

Rather than knowing that the Reapers are out there and focusing on the Collectors, the Collectors could have been the lead-in to the Reapers themselves: without even uttering the word 'Reaper', we're left to mystify why the last of the Protheans are abducting us and making a vessel out of us (like, we presume, they did to themselves). Come ME1-now-ME2, Liara's revelation that the Protheans are part of a cycle, not the cause of their own absence, becomes the Reaper Plot Development that makes us realize how big the threat really is.

[TransientNomad]

As a oldie to the Mass Effect forums, I remember quite a few problems people had with the last two games. Please note, these are things I READ not believe (most I disagree with but I will **star those that I do)

Mass Effect 1 Complaints -
**The Mako and how poorly it handled/and or boring segments
**Inventory/loot Management
The Fact you couldn't "Be evil" and join Saren/Harbinger
Lack of Difficulty
Lack of Space Battles
**Elevator Rides
Amount of Backtracking
**Reused Maps
Lack of Tali Romance
Overpowered Biotics
Lack of Substantial DLC
Ashley's percieved racism

Mass Effect 2 Complaints I heard
Lack of central narrative focus, felt more like a series of Side Quests
**Day 1 DLC
Lack of Mako/vehicle segments then later it was...
Delicate nature of the Hammerhead
Liara, Ashley, Kaiden, and Wrex not part of the Character Roster
Simplified Inventory and Loot
**Planet Mining!!
**Death/Resurrection of Sheperd story aspect
Removel of Percentage based Stats/changing of ME1's leveling system
**Ammo types as class "powers"
Jack not wearing a shirt and/or having a potty mouth
Gameplay moving closer to 3rd Person shooter away from Stat Based action RPG
Biotics being powered down
Lack of VS DLC, citing Liara got her own
Lack of Difficulty (Though not as much as ME1)
Consequences of ME1 choices through emails
**Party AI (or rather lack of)


Well those are just the things I remember off the top of my head. I'm sure there was more.

[Mr.House]

Seboist wrote...

Apart from being completely pointless ME2's plot (such as it was) was utterly nonsensical.

- TIM has no compelling reason to revive Shepard (especially a Paragon one)

- Lazarus is just a cheap contrivance to fast forward two years, break up the squad and get Shepard to work with Cerberus and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality or identity and absolutely nobody gives a damn that itself has been cured.

- The whole bit about recruiting a squad to fight a land war in space against a complete unknown through a relay nobody has ventured to and from is idiotic. For all they know there's an armada of Collector ships on the other side.

- You're given absolutely no compelling reason why you should be recruiting these people in the first place. Why do I need a assassin or a master thief when you end up never using their particular talents? Might as well have recruited an Elvis impersonator for all that it mattered.

- for a "character driven story" it's bizarre how most companions don't even recognize each others' mere existence.

- The game wants me to believe the Collectors are capable of harvesting the entire human race (lol) but at the same time shows them fleeing from a few AA guns and their ship gets taken out with ease by an unupgraded SR-2.

-  The bit about Collectors turning humans into liquid goo to create a "genetically diverse" three eyed space termintor is just..... wow. It's on par with aliens raising the death in order to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe in "Plan 9 from outer space".

- It butchers the lore and setting in numerous ways with one obvious one being the comic book inspired silly outfits that make no sense. When Catwoman's oufit makes more sense in her setting than the outfits characters wear in your "science fiction" story then you know it's lost credibility in it's genre.

TL:DR: ME2 was the death knell of the franchise that lead to all the problems in ME3.

Pretty much all this.

[Legion of 1337]

Yay I can finally tell someone everything wrong with ME2 (even though it's arguably the best one - figure that out):

1. .The plot makes no sense (see Seboist's post)

2. The plot is pointless. ME2 basically wasted the second Act of a 3 Act story on a giant sidequest that had nothing to do with the overarching plot, and did nothing to help prepare for the Reapers or give any exposition as to their nature (Leviathan SHOULD have been in ME2, as should the Crucible - and perhaps then it could have been explained better).

3. Too many squadmmates. Say what you will, many of your squadmembers are pointless and not terribly interesting. Characters like Samara, Jacob, and Jack seem like side characters that got thrust into a main role, while characters that should have gotten more attention (Garrus, Zaeed, and Miranda to an extent) didn't. And some, like Grunt and Kasumi, just don't need to exist.

4. If you think ME3 is lacking RPG elements, ME2 was worse.

5. Combat was meh. Very meh.

However, as anyone who's playing it will tell you, ME2 has the best character interaction, and since this is a Bioware game, that's what they're best at. They're so good at it, in fact, that character interaction alone makes up for the other faults completely.

Modifié par Legion of 1337, 24 février 2013 - 08:14 .

[crimzontearz]

lack of customization
forced restaurant pattern
dumbed down rpg mechanics
poor treatment of the LIs from ME1
idiotic thermal clip mechanic
ammo powers

[chemiclord]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
You know what makes it even funnier?

ME2 could have been placed before ME1, and with a few tweaks in the dialogue it would have made just as much sense. ME2 has pretty much all the same setting dynamics as ME1: the Alliance is alone and its frontier in danger the face of an unprovoked but advanced alien threat. The Council refuses to help for fears of the Terminus. The task for chasing down the threat rests on one team operating outside of the law.

Rather than knowing that the Reapers are out there and focusing on the Collectors, the Collectors could have been the lead-in to the Reapers themselves: without even uttering the word 'Reaper', we're left to mystify why the last of the Protheans are abducting us and making a vessel out of us (like, we presume, they did to themselves). Come ME1-now-ME2, Liara's revelation that the Protheans are part of a cycle, not the cause of their own absence, becomes the Reaper Plot Development that makes us realize how big the threat really is.

What's kinda disturbing (and sad) is that you AREN'T wrong in the slightest.  That's how little impact ME2 has on the plot of the trilogy.

Modifié par chemiclord, 25 février 2013 - 01:08 .

[StayFrosty05]

I enjoyed the Game play....but that aside...:

1/ Working for Cerberus...
2/ Lazarus Project ...ridiculous concept with no reaction from anyone?....
3/ Unrelated to story theme.