169 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

ScriptBabe wrote...

The lack of a personalized villain weakened ME2. When Harbinger would assume direct control and trash talk Shepard that helped a bit, but having Saren as the stand-in for Sovereign and the Reapers in ME1 was a very smart choice. Also, the human Reaper was just silly. The game uses the structure of the Dirty Dozen which is okay, but I'm in a second play through of ME2, and it's less engaging this time while ME1 was more fun the second time through.

Fun fact about the Dirty Dozen: the people involved in it are relevant to the plot.

Seriously, why did we grab Thane? He doesn't do anything.

[ohaithere]

I liked my talks with Thane, and reuniting him with his estranged son; I don't personally care if all the characters are relevant to the plot.

[Indy_S]

ohaithere wrote...

I liked my talks with Thane, and reuniting him with his estranged son; I don't personally care if all the characters are relevant to the plot.

Oh, I agree he was a good character. Tying the narrative together and making each character's skills relevant wouldn't have been too difficult, though.

[ohaithere]

I liked to think that the characters were all reasons to go through with the SM. Each person brought something to the table, and you got to get a glimpse of how large and diverse the universe really was. Agreed though, would've been nice to say "hey, jacob/jack/etc is useful because ____". It's easy to say with hindsight that the mission wasn't difficult, and that many people was excessive.

[Indy_S]

ohaithere wrote...

I liked to think that the characters were all reasons to go through with the SM. Each person brought something to the table, and you got to get a glimpse of how large and diverse the universe really was. Agreed though, would've been nice to say "hey, jacob/jack/etc is useful because ____". It's easy to say with hindsight that the mission wasn't difficult, and that many people was excessive.

Doing the mission with the bare minimum squad mates and no ship upgrades is an experience. I'm pretty sure I didn't even have anybody holding the line. Turns out that the guys you leave there don't mean anything.

[ohaithere]

Eh, they meant something to me. Evidently not to the mission.

[thijs166]

I dont have problems with me2, but in terms of story it was almost irrelevant. But i feel like in me 1 they revealed the reapers to soon. I feel like me2 should have been about finding out what sovereign actually was. Instead of directly revealing the reapers in me1. Focusing on leviatan etc. Possible involving the collectors. And that me 3 was the all out war against the reapers. But thats just my opinion no need to spread it around.

[Archonsg]

In the light of ME3, both ME1 and 2 are rendered irrelevant. What was the point of That whole thing of Sovereign taking the Citadel?

In ME2's case, I kept thinking, great, I now have a killer team, what now? When are we going to get an expansion where this team helps you find a way to stop the reapers?

Had instead of the choice to destroy or give the Collector's Base to TIM, instead making it a choice of giving it to TIM or the Council, and if only acquiring the Collector's base had been a plot point in finding a way to stop the reapers, ME2 would have been a stronger story for it.

As is, ME2 almost in its entirety could never have happened and it would not have mattered at all.

ME2, however is still my favorite of the three episodes. It had the right balance of "we are so FUBARed" and "lets all be big god-damn heroes!" right down to the "everyone dies to everyone lives, and everything in the middle ending.

[ZLurps]

Indy_S wrote...

ohaithere wrote...

I liked my talks with Thane, and reuniting him with his estranged son; I don't personally care if all the characters are relevant to the plot.

Oh, I agree he was a good character. Tying the narrative together and making each character's skills relevant wouldn't have been too difficult, though.

I agree. BW did some things pretty well regarding world building though. If I think of Thane's loyalty mission I really liked the political aspect of plot which contributed to world building and I think that's what writer of that mission was perhaps aiming for, I also felt mission design to be very welcomed change to corridor shooting. So not the destination (Daddy issue) but the journey has to be interesting.

What comes to Suicide mission design, there are actually specific roles for characters. Only Kasumi, Legion or Tali can survive the vent section and even then only if Garrus, Jacob or Miranda is leading the second fireteam.

During Long Walk section, Jack, Samara (or Morinth) has to be biotic specialist or you lose a squaddie.
What comes to Hold the Line part, who is leading the second fireteam decides how much, if any, losses fireteam takes.

Mission design flowchart: img203.imageshack.us/img203/3025/suisidemissionfinal8.jpg


Bioware released some information they gathered from built in feedback feature and according to those statistics.

• Only 50% of players have fully upgraded the <Ship> by the end of the game
• 14% of squad members die in the end-game, on average

So even lot of people may feel that player need to be an idiot not to get everyone survives scenario, on average players didn't get that scenario. I would speculate that amount of Planetary Mining needed for all upgrades contributes to that a lot though, so perhaps actual mission design could have been even bit more complex.

Perhaps assassin team to take out enemy units on higher ground... Thane and optionally, if player have required DLC, Kasumi, or what were you thinking?

[Massa FX]

I enjoy playing ME2. No complaints. No problem building a super team of soldiers to come with me on a suicide mission. Helping them achieve closure before a predictable and certain death is reasonable. I replay ME1 and ME2 often.

[ScriptBabe]

One more thought. I would liked to have seen a lot more hostility from the Cerberus crew toward Shepard. After all, he/she had been blowing the snot out of Cerberus soldiers all through the first game. One presumes that some of that crew had lost friends to Shepard's bullets. A bit of tension would have been fun and trying to win them over. Or perhaps they were just to scared of TIM to raise any objection.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Indy_S wrote...
Fun fact about the Dirty Dozen: the people involved in it are relevant to the plot.

Seriously, why did we grab Thane? He doesn't do anything.

Keep in mind that Shepard recruits a large range of individuals of varying skills for the Suicide Mission because she has literally no idea what they'll need on the other side of the Omega 4 relay. Some party members don't ever really come "into play" because it turns out their skill set wasn't needed but they couldn't have known that beforehand.

That said, Thane is probably in the top 3 most powerful squad members to bring with you, so even if they don't have a specialized role, he's still useful for his general combat ability. 

[ohaithere]

ScriptBabe wrote...

One more thought. I would liked to have seen a lot more hostility from the Cerberus crew toward Shepard. After all, he/she had been blowing the snot out of Cerberus soldiers all through the first game. One presumes that some of that crew had lost friends to Shepard's bullets. A bit of tension would have been fun and trying to win them over. Or perhaps they were just to scared of TIM to raise any objection.

Possibly, but most of your crew also comes out and says they signed up for you and not Cerberus. TIM didn't have many friends aboard the Normandy.

[Siripho]

There are NO problems withs ME2. Not one. It is officially the greatest game ever made. That is all.

[jkflipflopDAO]

ME2 is a great game. It has really fun mechanics and a lot of well done characters. At the time, the story seemed pretty sound as well. It got a lot of free passes because "well, I bet that's something that gets explained in ME3!"

But that's when we run into our issue, nothing from ME2 was explained. All the "hooks" that were set for later threads were abandoned. What does Haestrom's star dying mean? What was the purpose of the human reaper? What was in that encrypted cerberus data package that EDI said she would work on?

Other than not knowing who TIM is, you could totally skip ME2 and the story would be exactly the same. You'd never know something was missing in between.

[Maxster_]

Seboist wrote...

Apart from being completely pointless ME2's plot (such as it was) was utterly nonsensical.

- TIM has no compelling reason to revive Shepard (especially a Paragon one)

- Lazarus is just a cheap contrivance to fast forward two years, break up the squad and get Shepard to work with Cerberus and nothing else. There's no crisis of mortality or identity and absolutely nobody gives a damn that death itself has been cured.

- The whole bit about recruiting a squad to fight a land war in space against a complete unknown through a relay nobody has ventured to and from is idiotic. For all they know there's an armada of Collector ships on the other side.

- You're given absolutely no compelling reason why you should be recruiting these people in the first place. Why do I need a assassin or a master thief when you end up never using their particular talents? Might as well have recruited an Elvis impersonator for all that it mattered.

- for a "character driven story" it's bizarre how most companions don't even recognize each others' mere existence.

- The game wants me to believe the Collectors are capable of harvesting the entire human race (lol) but at the same time shows them fleeing from a few AA guns and their ship gets taken out with ease by an unupgraded SR-2.

-  The bit about Collectors turning humans into liquid goo to create a "genetically diverse" three eyed space termintor is just..... wow. It's on par with aliens raising the death in order to stop humans from creating a bomb that destroys the universe in "Plan 9 from outer space".

- It butchers the lore and setting in numerous ways with one obvious one being the comic book inspired silly outfits that make no sense. When Catwoman's oufit makes more sense in her setting than the outfits characters wear in your "science fiction" story then you know it's lost credibility in it's genre.

TL:DR: ME2 was the death knell of the franchise that lead to all the problems in ME3.

And exploration was removed. Instead of making mako better, they just cut it completely out.

[Maxster_]

Siripho wrote...

There are NO problems withs ME2. Not one. It is officially the greatest game ever made. That is all.

Sure sure.
Witcher 2 and Fallout New Vegas could not be compared to that.

[Icinix]

I found the level of action to be to much the focus.

The lack of exploration, not just Mako, but I felt like it was too easy to milk the hub locations and there wasn't really multiple ways to do quests like in ME1.

Wasn't enough character conversations and dialogue with squad. Felt just a bit too short.

Some of the side missions felt too isolated and tacked on.

Running around with a ghost busters back pack because of a heavy weapons system I never really used.

Don't get me wrong - I love it - and I think its a strong game - just those are what I saw as flaws with it.

[fr33stylez]

In addition to what's been said, Arrival DLC is the coup de grace. Considering you can actually play Arrival after Horizon, it effectively destroys ME2's plot 1/3 into the game.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 02 mars 2013 - 03:03 .

[FROST4584]

1. No plot advancement. For the most part you , recruit and solve characters family issues, for the entire game. Nothing matters else matters.

Why play ME2 more than once(or how many characters you planned on importing) other than have a file import for ME3? Mass Effect 2 should have been a "War Assets" game, so that it could pay off for Mass Effect 3.

2. Causal gameplay. In Mass Effect 1 , you would fear a Geth Prime , heck even a Krogan. If you get to close, they would beat you down. In Mass Effect 2 they are weak .In general, none of the enemies would use botics or overload in ME2. Mass Effect 2 is just another game of how the industry of games is getting easier.

3.Doesn't have the feel of what made ME special. A since of exploration and a list of characters you could meet and interact with is missing.

4. We went from every character wearing space armor, to characters like Miranda and Jack. I love the character, but it was obvious what EA/Bioware wanted to do.

5. Everyone ignores the events of ME1 , namely at the end when a "Geth" super ship lays waste to Allied ships. The last scene in ME1 , EVERY council member agrees to find someway to deal with the Reapers, yet in ME2 everyone seems to forget about this.

6. Mass Effect 2 ending - The ending is pretty much this: You won and beat the collectors, guess what..... the Reapers are still coming. After the entire game, the game shows us a huge fleet of Reapers, coming towards our galaxy. Maybe, if this game involved Reapers instead of Collectors, I would have like it.

7. The Collectors - Why would the Reapers have agents such as the collectors? Why would the Collectors, collect/ harvest people before the INVASION of the Reapers? Why couldn't they just wait? I could see if the collectors kidnapped people and indoctrinate people and then let them go, so that they could be agents of the Reapers.

8. Lair Of the Shadow Broker is over rated. LOTSB, has almost no real choice, in this so called RPG. Its just a linear third person shooter DLC, just like ME2. The only DLC that was remotely "Mass Effect" was Overlord. It was the only "choice" of the DLC meaningful that involved a character.

Bring Down the Sky is the pinnacle of DLC for the series , for me even though it was a bit bland. Overlord was too drawn out, for my taste, but it was till good.

Like Resident Evil 4 , Mass Effect 2 is one of the most overrated games of all time. Also both games killed whatever made the processors good and traded it in for making the game "more accessable" for mainstream/ casual gamers.

Mass Effect 2 disappointing sequel to Mass Effect. Ok game, but seems like a game designed to hit all the marks (like most games within the last few years), to bring in the most sales instead of making a sequel that corrected the short comings of ME1.