116 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

I was thinking that I probably wouldn't be able to do this at all, given how I feel about Loghain, and the bad taste that just making Anora Queen, even when killing Loghain, left in my mouth. I just couldn't see being able to make a character that could ignore what he did, and betray Alistair and Eamon, that I could stand to live in for 100 hours.

It occured to me that I could do it by creating a character that believed what Riordan said and went with it, then continued to make choices that were impossible to live with until, at the end, he/she was glad to die. Suicidal to the point of not caring that they were leaving Fereldan in the hands of Loghain and Anora. Doable. but bleak. Very bleak.

[Nobody Important]

I just harden Alistair and make him marry Anora than spare Loghain. Everybody wins.

[nubbers666]

i sided with the queen then the other grey warden made logain a warden and queen excuted cry baby lol

[errant_knight]

Nobody Important wrote...

I just harden Alistair and make him marry Anora than spare Loghain. Everybody wins.

That's not a win for me.

katie916 wrote...

i sided with the queen then the other grey warden made logain a warden and queen excuted cry baby lol

I guess I shouldn't have tried to discuss this character idea. Never mind. Not a big deal.

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 janvier 2010 - 03:59 .

[keesio74]

Nobody Important wrote...

I just harden Alistair and make him marry Anora than spare Loghain. Everybody wins.

If you do that, does Alistair hold a grudge against you at the end of it all?

[Kepha]

He's not friendly at the end, but he doesn't appear to still be really mad. You do have to endure a rather angry rant from him right after the Landsmeet though.

[Nobody Important]

keesio74 wrote...

Nobody Important wrote...

I just harden Alistair and make him marry Anora than spare Loghain. Everybody wins.

If you do that, does Alistair hold a grudge against you at the end of it all?

If you sacrifice Loghain at the Archdemon he forgives you and feels justice was served. If you do the dark ritual to allow both you and Loghain to live he is still kinda mad but not as mad as he was at the landsmeet.

[KnightofPhoenix]

How could I not spare Loghain and listen to an idiot like Alistair?

The only way I could do this is if my PC is a female and she is planing to put the clown as king and be his Queen / mistress.

[MagiST]

I'd rather make Dick Cheney king before I'd make Anora queen. And if I were Alistar, I'd rather marry Hilary Clinton before I'd marry Anora.

[errant_knight]

Okay. I started this to discuss an idea I had, not to start another hate thread. If anyone would like to discuss the idea that's dandy, otherwise I'll just request that the thread be closed or deleted.

[ejoslin]

keesio74 wrote...

Nobody Important wrote...

I just harden Alistair and make him marry Anora than spare Loghain. Everybody wins.

If you do that, does Alistair hold a grudge against you at the end of it all?

Oh yes.  And if you have Loghain do the ritual with Morrigan, Alistair has a LOT of questions for you . . .

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Okay. I started this to discuss an idea I had, not to start another hate thread. If anyone would like to discuss the idea that's dandy, otherwise I'll just request that the thread be closed or deleted.

Really, you may want to try saving Loghain at least once.  Do it on a third playthrough, when you know the game well enough that you can knock it out in 20 hours or so.  Make a character, male if you usually play female, or whatever, and make all the awful decisions. Unlock reaver and blood mage while you're at it.   But take the time to talk to Loghain.  Try to earn his respect -- it's doable, and it's worthwhile.  You will probably still hate him,but if you play again, you will have a deeper appreciation for what is going on.  PLUS, make sure you take him to Orzammar or Wade's or wherever you go for dialog and put him with all the party members.  Some of the banter is illuminating, and honestly, it's worth sparing Loghain just to hear the banter between he and Zevran.  Loghain and Wynne also should not be missed.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 janvier 2010 - 05:00 .

[Rhinna]

Wow...so you can go revisit all the areas with Loghain?I never thought to do that...I *almost* spared him this third playthrough, but Alastair was having SUCH a hissy fit (even after I hardened him) he refused to marry Anora, AND was going to leave the Grey Wardens...not sure how I could have gotten him to stay AND spare Loghain to kill the archdemon at the same time, without Ali winding up a drunk somewhere down the road....

[ejoslin]

Rhinna wrote...

Wow...so you can go revisit all the areas with Loghain?I never thought to do that...I *almost* spared him this third playthrough, but Alastair was having SUCH a hissy fit (even after I hardened him) he refused to marry Anora, AND was going to leave the Grey Wardens...not sure how I could have gotten him to stay AND spare Loghain to kill the archdemon at the same time, without Ali winding up a drunk somewhere down the road....

It's just a matter of hearing party dialog.  Of course, you can't go back to Redcliff without triggering the final battle.  But Zevran and Loghain have the funniest conversation, and really, there's a lot worth learning about Loghain.  I think understanding him adds depth to the game. If you don't want to play a whole game, maybe just reload one that you have saved before the landsmeet, spare him, and go at least through the dialog.  Then reload if you can't stand it!

[Teddan93]

I spared him just because of his personality, in the cutscenes like the one where he hires an assasin to kill the PC he does seem to hestitate and he never acts truly bad, he did what he had to do to be able to protect his beloved ferelden therefore i thought it would be better to let him live, i do also try to be merciful so i didnt feel it was right to kill him and even though alistair gets upset and leaves it just does not feel right to kill somebody, i wont do it again after trying tough, when he said the part about skinned knees i felt really bad for killing him, Great writing bioware.

[errant_knight]

Teddan93 wrote...

I spared him just because of his personality, in the cutscenes like the one where he hires an assasin to kill the PC he does seem to hestitate and he never acts truly bad, he did what he had to do to be able to protect his beloved ferelden therefore i thought it would be better to let him live, i do also try to be merciful so i didnt feel it was right to kill him and even though alistair gets upset and leaves it just does not feel right to kill somebody, i wont do it again after trying tough, when he said the part about skinned knees i felt really bad for killing him, Great writing bioware.

I have to agree with you about how well done the character is, even though I loath him. The animation and voice acting is excellent. I actually felt twinge of sympathy for him during that dialogue with Anora right before he dies. No enough to regret killing him, but it was amazing that I empathized with him at all. It reminded me that everyone loves their kids (and dogs , even those I find reprehensible.

ejoslin wrote...

It's just a matter of hearing party dialog.  Of course, you can't go back to Redcliff without triggering the final battle.  But Zevran and Loghain have the funniest conversation, and really, there's a lot worth learning about Loghain.  I think understanding him adds depth to the game. If you don't want to play a whole game, maybe just reload one that you have saved before the landsmeet, spare him, and go at least through the dialog.  Then reload if you can't stand it!

Now that's an idea. That way I can hear the dialogue without having to invest so much in a playthrough I likely won't be able to stomach.

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 janvier 2010 - 05:37 .

[Purdicus]

He reminds me of that movie a few good men

[SusanStoHelit]

Reloading an old game just before Landsmeet is a good idea. I haven't been able to stomach saving Loghain yet myself. But to get the alternate ending you'd have to play through to the epilogue. Hmm ... do I want a character for the expansion that sacrificed Loghain? I'll think on it but I suspect not.

He wasn't trying to protect Ferelden after all, he was a deranged psychopath with paranoia. He sold people into slavery, betrayed his king, caused the deaths of thousands, allowed the blight to advance further than necessary, and was involved in more chicanery than anyone I can think of almost - because he was scared of letting Orlesian Grey Wardens into Ferelden. The man is just plain evil - and a scaredy cat to boot.

Edit: it's a dead give away on that balcony early on where he says he trying to secure Ferelden's independence - not it's survival.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 11 janvier 2010 - 05:56 .

[lisakover]

Loghain isn't evil he just hates the Orlesians above all else and has some mental issues I mean;



1. They took his Mabari and had her raped by Orlesian Poodles then brought her back half dead.

2. They raped his Mother infront of him.

3. They killed his father.

4. He fought a war against them.



Loghain is a hero without a doubt and even though he has faltered he still deserves to redeem himself.

[SusanStoHelit]

Nope never. Terrorists, whatever their reasons, don't deserve second chances. And that's what he is, plain and simple. He'll sacrifice anything and anyone to satisfy his own warped perceptions of reality.

[SusanStoHelit]

I apologise to the OP, however, not another hate thread, sorry, but that's how I feel about Loghain - and why your post interested me. I've been trying to find a way I could roleplay letting him live (temporarily). I know I couldn't stomach it permanently.

[lisakover]

So would Duncan if it meant defeating the Darkspawn.

[SusanStoHelit]

Believe as you will, I'm not debating it here in a thread with a different purpose.



Good luck to you errant knight. I don't know if I'll manage to do it.

[errant_knight]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Believe as you will, I'm not debating it here in a thread with a different purpose.

Good luck to you errant knight. I don't know if I'll manage to do it.

I don't know that I will either, but I regret that I'm missing out on what I'm certain is some fine writing, as well as information that would add even more depth to the game. And thanks for your understanding of my desire to keep the more heated debate out of this thread. Given the loyalty that people feel for the characters (a real complement to the writing), I figure we're going to have to find a way to discuss gameplay and character choices without conversation devolving as it has in pretty much any thread where there's character discussion.

[SusanStoHelit]

Yeah, it's tough. Now Zevran was hard for me to get past, he's anything but saintly, but I kept him in an effort to get more information from him. After all, I didn't know he'd spill everything straight up. I suspected him of all kinds of dark motives. But I talked to him to learn more. And eventually you learn all kinds of things that shed a new light on him.



I know why Loghain is the way he is, but nothing I know of him excuses his behaviour in MY eyes (I don't wish to debate whether others feel differently, that's their opinion, and they're entitled to it). All I can say is how I (as a person) feel, and how each of my characters so far (I roleplay them) has felt.



I don't roll evil characters, because I've learned over the years that I simply don't have fun playing as them. I am unable to enter into their worldview - nor do I really wish to be able to. I don't have to be a complete goody two shoes - in DnD jargon, I prefer to be chaotic good, but anything from neutral good to chaotic neutral is fine. Lawful good is just too rigid - and evil isn't fun for me.



DAO is a whole 'nother ball of wax though. Despite it being a game, the ethical and moral choices have real emotional clout (for me) - and so do political, economic, and other decisions or choices for that matter.