260 réponses à ce sujet

[Jassu1979]

David7204 wrote...

Gee, just like people blatantly ignore the 'searching for rocks' missions in ME 1 and the 'mineral scanning missions' in ME 2 whenever they want to shill how much better the missions in those games were? 

The difference being that those games *did* in fact feature a wide array of missions and conversations on the side, instead of: "oh, I heard you talking about [item]: here it is. Have a nice day."

Personally, I've never put too much effort into finding rocks or insignia in ME1. I'm nowhere near obsessive-compulsive enough for that.
Planet scanning in ME2 drew lots of complaints from just about anyone - but that was not a side mission, or even pretending to be one. It was a farming mechanic, basically. Which was why everybody hated it.

[David7204]

Such utter nonsense. ME 3 didn't feature side missions and conversations? Ridiculous.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

It is an RPG.

[The Night Mammoth]

All those things you choose at the start of a new playthrough would actually have an effect on the character you play.

[David7204]

Like your class?

Hell no.

[Indy_S]

That's one of the things that is good about SWTOR, actually.

[The Night Mammoth]

Don't see why not.

Maybe it could even be optional, or just occasional.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 25 février 2013 - 12:51 .

[archangel1996]

Choices and Dialogues, go to the rachni or to the krogan for help, then go to the turian, but since you have the rachni you can.......
Decide the team
Various outcomes, Council:we need ya Shep, screw you sons of ****es i'm leaving, see ya, go talking to Kirrahe(example) and start to build my own army without the idiotic Hacket, The intro, why in the blue hell should my pragmatic Renegade Shepard let himself be captrued and sit in his ass for 6 months? He destroyed a galaxy for what?
Then for example choose a base, i help Aria? Omega my new base, or i take the Collector base ecc ecc
to me something like this should have been in ME3, we got autodialogues and all our choices forgotten(see rachni, same mission.....)

[David7204]

Because it's not a meaningful choice, and in fact, greatly reduces the player's sense that they have a meaningful impact on the world and characters. Which is the entire point of having choices in narrative and heroism heavy games in the first place.

[Indy_S]

David7204 wrote...

Because it's not a meaningful choice, and in fact, greatly reduces the player's sense that they have a meaningful impact on the world and characters. Which is the entire point of having choices in narrative and heroism heavy games in the first place.

In any given class screen there is an indication of what the class is. Having effects based on that is not a terribly difficult concept to handle but it does require certain understandings to be handled well.

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

Because it's not a meaningful choice,

Why? 

and in fact, greatly reduces the player's sense that they have a meaningful impact on the world and characters.

How?

Which is the entire point of having choices in narrative and heroism heavy games in the first place.

Why aren't the things you choose when making a character regarded with the same importance as the choices made during the story? 

[David7204]

Because no reasonable person could possibly guess the effects of a class when they pick it. You play as a class other than a biotic. A character dies because you couldn't do a biotic maneuver on a mission. That isn't a meaningful choice. That's a dice roll. That's the player getting screwed over because he happened to pick the wrong class. Because he wasn't psychic. That's the player having less than zero input on how the world and characters develop. And that leads to players feeling frustrated and helpless, as it should.

For choices to be meaningful, the player needs to be reasonably aware of the conseqences of a choice when they make it, and the game overwhelmingly needs to follow through with those expectations. That means that 'good' choices overwhelmingly need to lead to good outcomes and so forth.

Modifié par David7204, 25 février 2013 - 01:08 .

[Indy_S]

Interesting. Why do you think SWTOR can get away with it, then?

[David7204]

I don't know a thing about SWTOR, so I don't have any input on how it can get away with it or not.

[Ice Cold J]

 Actually, there's not one glaring thing that i'm like, "They REALLY should've changed that."

Making decision have greater reprocussions might be the ONLY one, but that's more the trilogy as a whole and NOT ME3.

MAYBE more armor configurations for squadmates...

[Asch Lavigne]

David7204 wrote...

Because no reasonable person could possibly guess the effects of a class when they pick it. You play as a class other than a biotic. A character dies because you couldn't do a biotic maneuver on a mission. That isn't a meaningful choice. That's a dice roll. That's luck. That's the player getting screwed over because he happened to pick the wrong class. Because he wasn't psychic. That's the player having less than zero input on how the world and characters develop. And that leads to players feeling frustrated and helpless, as it should.

I kind of agree. But still think class choice should matter. At least maybe have a different way of doing things for each class. Like the way you save a character biotically would be very different to how you would save them if you had tech powers.


Also agree with more companion customization. I would have loved to have had armor pieces like Shep did and you customized them like that.

Branching storylines is also a great suggestion.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 25 février 2013 - 01:08 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

What would you change about ME3 to make it an RPG if you could?

My priority change would be...being able to create relationships (friendships) with Crew/Squad (positive/negative, etc...) throughout the series and have them hold true into ME3.

What's yours?

Before anything is done to make it an RPG the goddamn JOURNAL NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

[David7204]

That's an awful lot of work. Generally, if people except things like the 'different weapons in cutscenes' issue to be fixed, they're almost certainly going to have to accept less variety it cutscenes, not more.

[Indy_S]

I'll just answer my own question, then. The game has two stories running at a time: you're character's story which relies entirely upon your class and the story of the planet you're currently running around on. Additionally, your character class links all of the planets together. So while doing the same fighting everybody else is doing, my Bounty Hunter is doing Bounty Huntery things: engaging in manhunts and freezing various people.

The class completely defines the core experience and it was entirely obvious from the character creation screen what choosing my class would do.

[adayaday]

David7204 wrote...

Because no reasonable person could possibly guess the effects of a class when they pick it.

And thats a bad thing?Omega class based interrupt was one of the most shining features of the DLC.
how about that little chat you have with Liara on the Normandy,who discibe Shepard according to his renegade/paragon and class,was it meaningless?or did vanguard get a better spot light time then engineers?
stuff like the "murder knife" for rogues in DA2 made them stand out from mages and warriors.

A character dies because you couldn't do a biotic maneuver on a mission. That isn't a meaningful choice.You play as a class other than a biotic. A character dies because you
couldn't do a biotic maneuver on a mission. That isn't a meaningful
choice. That's a dice roll. That's luck. That's the player getting
screwed over because he happened to pick the wrong class. Because he
wasn't psychic. That's the player having less than zero input on how the
world and characters develop. And that leads to players feeling
frustrated and helpless, as it should.

Gameplay wise-NPCs die regardless of class and skill,story wise-if i dont use biotic attack using tech or snipe the target is also an option,while might not be"meaningfull" it adds character.

Modifié par adayaday, 25 février 2013 - 01:14 .

[David7204]

That sounds to me not so much like class affecting a single story, but a bunch of a different stories, each one tied to a class.

[adayaday]

David7204 wrote...

That sounds to me not so much like class affecting a single story, but a bunch of a different stories, each one tied to a class.

and how is that a bad thing?Shepard could have been a namless mercenary in ME2,being a soldier,Specter or an Alliance member had little impact (if any)on the story after ME1,but it did add to Shepard as a character.

[David7204]

That's just an origin. Not a story. From what it sounds like, the different classes in SWTOR lead to different stories entirely.

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

Because no reasonable person could possibly guess the effects of a class when they pick it.

Unless they're given direction, and I don't see what the difference is between this choice and most other choices in the game, in this respect. 

You play as a class other than a biotic. A character dies because you couldn't do a biotic maneuver on a mission. That isn't a meaningful choice. That's a dice roll. That's the player getting screwed over because he happened to pick the wrong class. Because he wasn't psychic. That's the player having less than zero input on how the world and characters develop. And that leads to players feeling frustrated and helpless, as it should.

Your assuming what sort of effect I might suggest these choices would have. 

Truthfully, I'm not entirely certain. Perhaps not as intrusive as the above example. 

For choices to be meaningful, the player needs to be reasonably aware of the conseqences of a choice when they make it, and the game overwhelmingly needs to follow through with those expectations. That means that 'good' choices overwhelmingly need to lead to good outcomes and so forth.

I don't see how this makes a choice meaningful. It makes it gratifying, the player is proved right by virue of being the player, rather than because a certain outcome is more likely or logical. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 25 février 2013 - 01:35 .

[adayaday]

Indy S is talking about SWTOR,i am talking about DA2 and to some extent ME3.
in DA picking a diffrent class changed your prespective but not the story.
Liara acknowledged your class and personality.
Omega got its class based interrupt.
All of those add FLAVOR without those the story tend to be blend,boring and linear.

Modifié par adayaday, 25 février 2013 - 01:34 .