260 réponses à ce sujet

[StayFrosty05]

Mr.House wrote...

....snip....

ME2 Shepard ignored ME Shepards status, so why where you surprised ME3 did this?

Wasn't quite so in the face for myself due to decisions and relationships I had built upon in ME1....how glaringly these in-continuities play out depends a great deal on the players earlier decisions and choices....I was lucky with ME2 that most fit my previous ME1 RP more or less....I know it became obvious for other people who played otherwise, but my personal slap in the face was saved for ME3 mostly.

LotSB was the red flag for what was coming....ME2 still allowed you to some extent set positive or negative relationships, etc... to some degree....ME3 removed that element completely, unless you shoot the VS, that's about the extent of it.

Modifié par StayFrosty05, 25 février 2013 - 08:08 .

[David7204]

Because a lot of characters didn't join the squad.

[adayaday]

David7204 wrote...

There are two choices in games. You can make the relationships with other characters more variable, so that the player character can canonically hate them, or betray them, or kill them. But the price of that is that those characters cannot have an effort on the story, or much of an effect on other characters, or, really, much of an effect on anything. Fallout: New Vegas is a good example of this. You can kill your companions if you don't like them. Or betray them.  But nothing happens. None of your other companions so much as notice. The story continues the same as before. The only thing that changes is their personal quest and ending.

Or you can have characters play a role in the story. But to do that, characters have to have some sort of relationship with the player character, regardless of how the player feels about them.

Developers cannot tell 2 stories, or 4, or 8, or 16, or 32, or 64. They can only tell one. And a story involves characters. That's just the end of it. The story of Mass Effect involves Liara, and Miranda, and EDI, and that's just the end of it.

Liara and Garrus disagree with you,aswell as most of the less importent  Normandy crew.

[David7204]

I don't think Shepard can canonically hate either Garrus or Liara. Regardless of the player's choices, they're both on the Normandy at least once.

[StayFrosty05]

David7204 wrote...

Because a lot of characters didn't join the squad.

 A lot of us were hoping BW would be able to swing that before the release on ME3....but it didn't happen and it's understandable why it didn't, way too many variables...I'm personally fine with that, I miss certain characters a lot, but everyone has their favorites, we can't all have our favorites back....I don't have a problem with that.

[StayFrosty05]

David7204 wrote...

I don't think Shepard can canonically hate either Garrus or Liara. Regardless of the player's choices, they're both on the Normandy at least once.

Though he can in ME1...no continuity.

[Mr.House]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

....snip....

ME2 Shepard ignored ME Shepards status, so why where you surprised ME3 did this?

Wasn't quite so in the face for myself due to decisions and relationships I had built upon in ME1....how glaringly these in-continuities play out depends a great deal on the players earlier decisions and choices....I was lucky with ME2 that most fit my previous ME1 RP more or less....I know it became obvious for other people who played otherwise, but my personal slap in the face was saved for ME3 mostly.

LotSB was the red flag for what was coming....ME2 still allowed you to some extent set positive or negative relationships, etc... to some degree....ME3 removed that element completely, unless you shoot the VS, that's about the extent of it.

You can do what you could never do to Joker. At last tell him off so bad  that he no longer considers you a friend and changes his last conversation with Shepard. You know how long people have been waiting for this, more so aftert he forced buddy crap in ME2? You can also shoot Mordin if you refuse to cure the genophage, you can kill Legion if oyu think the geth deserve to die, you can kill the VS after treating them liek crap ect. I can understand osmethings liek Cerberus supporters but overall you still had all this stuff. I just don't see it myself, but then again. Your Shepard is yours and mine is mine :happy:

Bioware could have odne a better job and I will never argue that. I hate the Vega auto flirting, my Shepard feeling so sad for this random kid, the dumb nightmares ect and as much as i wish Bioware gave me more freedom like in ME I've came to terms.

ME was a RPG shooter. ME2 and ME3 where shooter rpgs.

Modifié par Mr.House, 25 février 2013 - 08:20 .

[David7204]

Enough of acting as if this is somehow a new development in ME 3. The player can be a total jerk to Ashley and Kaidan and other characters in ME 1, but there's still no option to kick them off the ship. They still speak to you politely and respectfully on missions. Shepard is still 'forced' to respect them when he leaves one of them to die on Virmire.

And all of that is perfectly good gameplay design and writing.

[anmiro]

Bob Garbage wrote...

auto dialogue
lack of significant paragon/renegade interrupts

one makes the game feel out of one's control and the other results in an ultimately very linear experience. neither of these things are RPG qualities - or at least they shouldn't be these days.

I enjoyed the interrupts in ME2; I did not enjoy them in ME3. The whole point of the interrupts are to preserve the flow of a cut scene while still allowing the player to make choices. The good interrupts come at times when some immediate action needs to be taken or grand gesture needs to be made. In the context of the conversation, you can sort of anticipate what that action might be. A bad interrupt, in my opionion, simply replaces the ussual dialogue bubbles and makes Shepards responses unclear. Of the few interrupts in ME3, I often found myself not clicking them because I didn't know what to expect from Shepard.

[StayFrosty05]

Mr.House wrote...

StayFrosty05 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

....snip....

ME2 Shepard ignored ME Shepards status, so why where you surprised ME3 did this?

Wasn't quite so in the face for myself due to decisions and relationships I had built upon in ME1....how glaringly these in-continuities play out depends a great deal on the players earlier decisions and choices....I was lucky with ME2 that most fit my previous ME1 RP more or less....I know it became obvious for other people who played otherwise, but my personal slap in the face was saved for ME3 mostly.

LotSB was the red flag for what was coming....ME2 still allowed you to some extent set positive or negative relationships, etc... to some degree....ME3 removed that element completely, unless you shoot the VS, that's about the extent of it.

You can do what you could never do to Joker. At last tell him off so bad  that he no longer considers you a friend and changes his last conversation with Shepard. You know how long people have been waiting for this, more so aftert he forced buddy crap in ME2? You can also shoot Mordin if you refuse to cure the genophage, you can kill Legion if oyu think the geth deserve to die, you can kill the VS after treating them liek crap ect. I can understand osmethings liek Cerberus supporters but overall you still had all this stuff. I just don't see it myself, but then again. Your Shepard is yours and mine is mine :happy:

Though I am not a Cerberus supporter myself, I really feel for those players who are....I plain forgot about shooting Legion and Mordin...my bad.......never shot them myself, though I do wish I had bought a game through without Wrex as I am not a fan of curing the genophage, but can't stomach playing the 'betrayal' card myself......Whe can you blast Joker?....Your not talking about the Thessia debacle are you?

[Mr.House]

StayFrosty05 wrote...



Though I am not a Cerberus supporter myself, I really feel for those players who are....I plain forgot about shooting Legion and Mordin...my bad.......never shot them myself, though I do wish I had bought a game through without Wrex as I am not a fan of curing the genophage, but can't stomach playing the 'betrayal' card myself......Whe can you blast Joker?....Your not talking about the Thessia debacle are you?

After oyu snap at Joker, you have two options. You can say sorry and try to pull your self togetehr or blast at him more to the point that the friendship with Joker is finished. It's ogne. It's simply Commander and crewman now, not friendship. It's something people wnated, I perosnly did it on Joshua Shepard. Like I said in my response I edited to add a few things more. Do i wish things where diffrent? Hell yes. But Bioware Edmonton is a diffrent studio now since ME2. For good or ill.

[StayFrosty05]

David7204 wrote...

Enough of acting as if this is somehow a new development in ME 3. The player can be a total jerk to Ashley and Kaidan and other characters in ME 1, but there's still no option to kick them off the ship. They still speak to you politely and respectfully on missions. Shepard is still 'forced' to respect them when he leaves one of them to die on Virmire.

And all of that is perfectly good gameplay design and writing.

I would have been more than happy to work my way around professional relationships, would still feel I have at least some control over Shep...the intention is not to boot all and sundry off the Ship...the intention is to be able to RP my Sheps choice and reactions towards relationships and to events around him, that's what was well and truly removed in ME3.

[StayFrosty05]

Mr.House wrote...

....snip.....

Bioware could have odne a better job and I will never argue that. I hate the Vega auto flirting, my Shepard feeling so sad for this random kid, the dumb nightmares ect and as much as i wish Bioware gave me more freedom like in ME I've came to terms.

ME was a RPG shooter. ME2 and ME3 where shooter rpgs.

You have probably nailed it right there Mr.House

[adayaday]

David7204 wrote...

I don't think Shepard can canonically hate either Garrus or Liara. Regardless of the player's choices, they're both on the Normandy at least once.

in one post you say you can hate them and in the other you say you cant?its a two option question pick one.

StayFrosty05 wrote...

Though he can in ME1...no continuity.

one of the last lines in LOTSB allows you to severe ties with Liara aswell.

Modifié par adayaday, 25 février 2013 - 08:33 .

[Mr.House]

anmiro wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

auto dialogue
lack of significant paragon/renegade interrupts

one makes the game feel out of one's control and the other results in an ultimately very linear experience. neither of these things are RPG qualities - or at least they shouldn't be these days.

I enjoyed the interrupts in ME2; I did not enjoy them in ME3. The whole point of the interrupts are to preserve the flow of a cut scene while still allowing the player to make choices. The good interrupts come at times when some immediate action needs to be taken or grand gesture needs to be made. In the context of the conversation, you can sort of anticipate what that action might be. A bad interrupt, in my opionion, simply replaces the ussual dialogue bubbles and makes Shepards responses unclear. Of the few interrupts in ME3, I often found myself not clicking them because I didn't know what to expect from Shepard.

I saw what interupts where going to do no problem in ME3 just like in ME2.

I can name many and I'm not counting dlc except for javik

-Punching the reporter or comfroting her, not just with dialog but with a little "hug"
-shooting Mordin
-Shooting Legion
-Trying to save Tali
-Breaking Kai Lengs crappy sword
-either telling your squad to stand down or continue to have their guns out during the coup with your hand
-Shooting VS or Udina
-Stopping Samara from blowing her brains out
-Shooting TIM before he shoots you after telling him he's a greedy man who sacerficed everything for his own needs
-Brohuging Wrex
-Killing Wrex your self
-Interupting Javik before he scares the crap out of people
-Giving Javik a handshake
-Noticing a fast ship when talking to Steve
-All the interupts during the work out with Vega

I found none of these bad and enjoyed them or found them very well done then the ones in ME2. There is only a few interupts I liked from ME2.

Modifié par Mr.House, 25 février 2013 - 08:34 .

[Bleachrude]

Actually, there's a neat "character continuation" with Garrus if you play a Femshep.

To romance Garrus in ME3, you had to have romanced him in ME2, but to romance him in ME2, you had to have had him on your ship in ME1.

So many PS3 players until the release of the ME ultimate collection could never romance Garrus...

So basically, Garrus will only date you in ME2 because he got to know you in ME1 and will only continue and not START a relationship in ME3 due to his focus being on the war...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 25 février 2013 - 08:39 .

[StayFrosty05]

adayaday wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't think Shepard can canonically hate either Garrus or Liara. Regardless of the player's choices, they're both on the Normandy at least once.

in one post you say you can hate them and in the other you say you cant?its a two option question pick one.

StayFrosty05 wrote...

Though he can in ME1...no continuity.

one of the last lines in LOTSB allows you to severe ties with Liara aswell.

I know....when I did think doing LotSB would be relevant to ME3, I would do it for my export games and always choose the 'Let's keep it professional' option (not let her come onto the Normandy).....but it obviously made no difference....neither does being a cad to her in ME1.

Modifié par StayFrosty05, 25 février 2013 - 08:44 .

[Jassu1979]

dreman9999 wrote...

And they can't make ME3 AN EXPORING EXPERIANCE WITH A REAPER WAR GOING ON.

Still parroting the party line?

Even wars involve lots of reconnaissance. There would have been LOTS of room for side missions that did not compromise the war effort. And we received the game that we did because they rushed it, not because they thought scanning-and-text was what the story needed most.

But I suppose Bioware will be happy to see that there are at least some people who believe everything their PR-division feeds to the press.

[Bleachrude]

Er...I tend to disagree about ME3 and its' side missions...

This was brilliantly done to such an extent that people don't realize they ARE side missions. Take Grissom Academy for example...you CAN ignore it and continue the main storyline (which is what the definition of a side mission _IS_ The various recruitment missions in ME2 are mainline whereas the loyalty quests are side-quests).

However, it is integrated seamlessly into the storyline that most people think of it as a "main mission" and it has consequences for OTHER side missions ("rescue Jacob et al - doing it with having saved grissom and having not done it is a nice bit of "damn...did he really")

I honestly want more of these type of side missions rather than the "go here, kill some mercs/geth, get some loot" that we got in the first two games...

The side missions in ME3 were brilliant.

[Applepie_Svk]

Mr.House wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...


greedy overlords which stands behind cutting core narrative into the DLC...

laziness.

This road started with ME2.

Well while LoTSB I took as an echancment, but Arrival was direct connection of events betwen the ME2 and ME3 - that was very ugly move. Zaed you get for free with Cerberus network, while Kasumi was paid but at least not significant for core plot of ME2. Overall cutting corners in ME2 was not so big deal like with ME3 where from 3 released paid DLCs we already knew about one for certain and rest two are cutting the core content... that´s pretty much like almost 6 out of 7 DLCs for ME2 were in significant way connected with core plot.

[john-in-france]

Gangnam Style wrote...

i see what you did there

+1

[john-in-france]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

....snip....

ME2 Shepard ignored ME Shepards status, so why where you surprised ME3 did this?

snip...

ME3 removed that element completely, unless you shoot the VS, that's about the extent of it.

I let Garrus do that.

[Jassu1979]

Bleachrude wrote...

The side missions in ME3 were brilliant.

From the material you reference here, I take it you are blatantly ignoring the "overheard conversations/scanning random planets and receiving a static picture"-type of side quest.
Can't say I blame you. I'd repress that memory, too, if I thought that it helped improve my impression of ME3.

As it is, though, it's *those* side quests we are talking about. You know, the ones that turn Shepard into a nosy stalker and/or do not really give you the option to even TALK to people before you go and fetch some random item for them that you won't even get to see?

[David7204]

Gee, just like people blatantly ignore the 'searching for rocks' missions in ME 1 and the 'mineral scanning missions' in ME 2 whenever they want to shill how much better the missions in those games were? 

Modifié par David7204, 25 février 2013 - 12:17 .