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Mass Effect 3: A Dissapointment


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#126
Jasons073

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flemm wrote...

Raizo wrote...
Sadly I seem to have a very difficult time articulating why I am so disappointed with ME3. On paper ME3 fixes most if not all of ME2's short comings and yet there isn't a single doubt in my mind that ME2 is the better game. I feel as if something is missing from ME3, something vital, something that ME1 and ME2 had. I also don't like the way flows ( for lack of a better word ), it's too linear, it's story too forced.


I think the answer you are looking for is in your post, actually: lack of freedom. ME3 is far more interested in imposing a certain view of the world and the characters on the player than the previous games were.

That's especially true in the main story, as you note.


Can you give an example of precisely what you mean?  I agree the game is more linear in that, unlike Mass Effect 2, you can't tackle the "recruitment missions" in the order you choose.  However, I felt that in all missions up to Thessia, there was plenty of freedom.  I agree that from Thessia-onward it was very linear, however.

#127
Grubas

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For me the problem was the strightforward gamedesign. There is no place in the entire game where i ever got lost. Its like the designer always wants me to go a strightforward way, so why dosn't he just put me on rails, and lets me do the targeting only.

#128
Aezync

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flemm wrote...

Raizo wrote...
Sadly I seem to have a very difficult time articulating why I am so disappointed with ME3. On paper ME3 fixes most if not all of ME2's short comings and yet there isn't a single doubt in my mind that ME2 is the better game. I feel as if something is missing from ME3, something vital, something that ME1 and ME2 had. I also don't like the way flows ( for lack of a better word ), it's too linear, it's story too forced.


I think the answer you are looking for is in your post, actually: lack of freedom. ME3 is far more interested in imposing a certain view of the world and the characters on the player than the previous games were.

That's especially true in the main story, as you note.


Lol, so simply stated, and it expresses almost everything that I was trying to convey.

#129
Aezync

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Jasons073 wrote...

I actually felt that Mass Effect 3 was the best in the series. A disclaimer: I played through for the first time after the Extended Cut DLC came out and with it installed, so I never experienced the initial frustration with the ending as many did. This is not to say that ME3 doesn't have its flaws, but I think it has fewer than the other two games in the series.

(1) Plot: While Mass Effect 3 isn't the first game to use an "apocalypse" scenario for its story by any means, it does a fantastic job of (a) giving the player a sense of urgency and (B) laying out the political, difficult, and emotionally challenging decisions that would need to be made in a war for one's survival. I have a hard time discounting the different plotlines (i.e. genophage, quarian/geth, etc.) on the ground that the are "expected," as the OP does here. Any work of art has themes, and when you have a series one is supposed to build upon those themes to create some kind of ultimate outcome. For this reason, I had the hardest time getting used to Mass Effect 2 (which many people think is the best into the series), because I thought the Collector/Cerberus plotline was really random/didn't initially build off these themes. I wound up enjoying Mass Effect 2 (it was definitely better than Mass Effect 1), but it took awhile for me to get into it. Although I was not 100% satisfied with Mass Effect 3's ending (even with the EC installed), I enjoyed how Bioware decided to conclude the majority of themes/scenarios over the course of the game.

(2) Characters: While there were fewer characters in Mass Effect 3, and while I missed some of my squadmates from Mass Effect 2, I have no problems with the general decision to include fewer characters on the Normandy. First, as this is a total war for survival, the world can't afford to have every soldier/fighter with any degree of special talent on the Normandy. It wouldn't make sense. The war is going on across the Galaxy, and the Galaxy's champions, therefore, also need to be spread across the Galaxy/have their own ideas of the best way to help. For this reason, I thought cameos/limited interactions on the Citadel were a great way to meet old friends while addressing this concern. Second, the Commander's squad was somewhat oversaturated in Mass Effect 2. Each squad member should have a somewhat unique role to play. There were certain characters in Mass Effect 2 that, other than for a loyalty mission and maybe one other mission, I never used at all. Finally, having fewer characters allows for more character development, not only with the Commander but with each other. I particularly enjoyed seeing various characters interact with each other/move around on the Normandy, from having Javik debate with EDI, to having Ashley passed out on the floor after drinking with James. Not all development has to go through the Commander himself.

(3) Exploration: Planetary exploration in between missions was extremely tedious (and often quite boring) in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 (although it was great to see all the hard work from that pay off in Mass Effect 3). Mass Effect 3's search and rescue makes it less tedious without making it too uninteresting or useless. True, I wish Bioware had come up with some way to fight the reapers after becoming detected, or introduced upgrades that make it easier to evade them, but that wasn't too big of a deal for me.

(4) Combat: Except for the minor frustration I had with the "spacebar does everything" mechanic, I thought combat in ME3 was the best in the series. The enemies were varied and used a variety of tactics (this was best executed with Cerberus), and one could be creative with the variety of powers squad members had to offer. I have only two major criticisms. First, a lot of weapons within the same class (i.e. shotgun, assault rifle, etc.) were too similar to each other. The upgrades, with the exception of the sniper rifle upgrades, are not unique/interesting enough to make weapon customization/use all that interesting. The different DLC packs have fixed this somewhat, but I wish Bioware had done more with it. Second, Bioware removed heavy weapons as actual, permanent weapons. Apart from being unrealistic in that heavy weapons are just "found" randomly, without ever actually being used by the enemies themselves (I don't recall any reaper forces wielding a blackstar weapon), it removes another possible element of strategy in some of the larger battles. Instead of making them temporary, Bioware could have made the ammo rarer/more expensive. Considering how flushed I was with credits at the end of the game, the latter would have been considerably more exciting that blowing all my excess credits on Spectre weapons that, while powerful, were less interesting.

(5) Multiplayer: I'm not going to go into much detail about this (I consider the ME3 multiplayer to be a separate "game") other than to say that it's definitely the best in the series. I'm still playing it to this day, alongside my other playthroughs of the single player game.

(6) End Satisfaction: Minus the discussion with the Catalyst, I was satisfied with how the ending played out. I had no problem with the notion that the Commander had to sacrifice himself to save the world, nor with making the illusive man an end villain. I also enjoyed the cutscenes that (I gather, the EC introduced, as that was enough for me to build closure with many of the characters under the circumstances). Although I'm sure they've been said before, I will voice my criticisms of the ending. The first, is that the inclusion of the Catalyst is random and does not serve as an effective end to all of the game's themes. Depending on how you play the game, you may have already proven the Catalyst "wrong" with respect to the organic v. synthetic conflict. If the Catalyst winds up disagreeing with you, that's fine, but it definitely warranted further discussion/debate. The second, is that the ending did not make use of Harbinger (in my opinion, an excellent villain) in any major way. There should have been SOME kind of a boss fight, even if the Commander ends up defeated/it's impossible to win. Finally, other than the cinematic showing the fleets emerging to meet the reapers in Earth's orbit, collecting war assets did not play out in any major way, apart from the interlude in between the first and second halves of the last mission. I'm not saying that all the races should have actually had to be seen fighting the reapers on the ground, but you should have at least been able to receive some update on how the Geth, quarians, batarians, volus, etc., were doing in the battle (in a manner similar to the com station where you get one last talk with the characters who aren't in your squad). I understand that the bulk of the forces were needed in orbit, but that doesn't preclude the addition of further details to keep things interesting.

It wasn't perfect (other than perhaps Baldur's Gate II, no game is), but I felt more satisfied finishing Mass Effect 3 than I did with finishing Mass Effect 1 and 2. For me, the journey was enough to override any dissatisfaction I had with the ending.

With most of your points I can empathize with, as I found the game to be a satisfactory production of the current industry. It's a good game. But it's not a game worthy of the title "Mass Effect", and let me explain why briefly.

In the orignial, we are introduced to a universe with an extensive history that did not involve man kind. This, to me, was the first sign of the game being a success as normally when sci-fi writers create a universe of their own, it is human-centric (see the aliens in star wars, their culture, and their dominance in the society). Then we meet our villian: Saren, who is cunning, dominant, and seemingly in control, but who is only a thrall of the real villian, showing how clever and intricate the story was created to be. Next, we're introduced a  cast of characters that are unique individuals who show true emotion and real struggle with their own destinies. Furthermore, the later revelations of the story continue to surprise and impress us with the twists and turns that they make. These elements, together, made Mass Effect one of the best, if not the best, sci-fi games of all time.

The second, similarly, introduces us to the same universe, but from different perspective: one that you create your own (see earlier posts as to why I think the ME2 story-development progressed well). This perspective, paired with strong gameplay mechanics and decent animations makes Mass Effect 2 worthy of bearing the title "Mass Effect". However, it is rather far from achieving the same degree of success in story that the original did. But regardless, it is a great game, and a good Mass Effect game.

When it comes to Mass Effect 3, we are not so thouroughly introduced to the universe as we've already been down that road. That's okay, and it's expected, as it would be really just redundant. What is bothersome is how, as an intellignet poster mentioned, they force a perspective on the player and eliminate any feeling of being in control of the story at a certain point in the game (NOT referring to the ending alone). This, in addition to numerous animation flaws and weak story-development elements (Kai Leng, the Star Child, The Illusive Man), makes Mass Effect 3 a subpar Mass Effect game, but still a good game in general.

I do understand as to why you were content with the end game; the game itself had many, many epic moments in which consequence and reward reach the climax of the entire series. I was too, until Admiral Hackett said "Wait, something's wrong, it's not working". I was under the impression that it was going to end with Anderson and Shepard: a picturesque scene. But it didn't, it carried on into something that was not well made, but I can honestly say that it made perfect sense.

Also, never played BG2, so I can't compare..

#130
PistolPete7556

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Mass Effect 3 is one of the greatest games of the last decade. Come at me haters.

#131
jakal66

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sorry, but I believe they sacrificed some freedom because you needed to feel the weight of war, too bad the new dlc kinda goes against that, but I believe that was their intention.Sheppard feels the tension of war, there is no doubt about that.I think they didn't want you to have silly missions diverting you from the main goal.

Did they dod this the right way? Hardly, there could have been a million other options to achieve this without those silly fetch quests.If there are two things I hate about this game is that and thye stupid cliffhanger ending in destroy...

The rest I came to like a lot.

#132
Aezync

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Grubas wrote...

For me the problem was the strightforward gamedesign. There is no place in the entire game where i ever got lost. Its like the designer always wants me to go a strightforward way, so why dosn't he just put me on rails, and lets me do the targeting only.


I agree completely. The events of the first game made me replay the entire game to fully understand what was going on. This is not the case in ME3, where things come easily and can even be predicted, ha!

#133
Neizd

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Bioware are the gods of cRPG genre, they did made mistakes in DA:2 and ME3...a lot of them. I have lost my trust in them thinking that they their time passed. With Citadel DLC however they showed what they are copable of. The main problem with ME3 is that the characters and Shepard are not in the center of atention.

In ME1 and ME2 we grew to care about them...and in ME3 we have endings that basicially ignore those we care about...and even if we choose it's like...totally random etc. It's not what it could have been and not what a lot of people wanted.

Is the game bad? No...overall product is well designed, the music, the atmosphere, the graphic scenery. It all shows that Bioware team put a lot of effort into the game. Of course it was rushed, otherwise I don't believe that a great game developer team could create a game with some of those dissapointements.

#134
Nykara

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Aezync wrote...

Siran wrote...

aren't you a bit late to the party?


Yes but why aren't they doing anything about it? They can't just let the Shepard trilogy end like this..

Why would they? Do they not care about the fans anymore?


Yeah. I really hate that Shepards story is ending like this too. It just falls short of the ending I think Shepard deserves. Priority Earth was Ok but really I expected more from the battle for earth as well then just as many reaper forces thrown around as they could. It really seemed very rushed as did the ending. I *can* see where they were going with the ending but I don't like it at all.

I also still have a lot of moments when playing through ME3 where I feel as if the conversations have been totally taken away from us as players and Shepard just says and does her own thing without our input. It's lost some of the role playing there.

Modifié par Nykara, 09 mars 2013 - 12:09 .


#135
Aezync

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Nykara wrote...

Aezync wrote...

Siran wrote...

aren't you a bit late to the party?


Yes but why aren't they doing anything about it? They can't just let the Shepard trilogy end like this..

Why would they? Do they not care about the fans anymore?


Yeah. I really hate that Shepards story is ending like this too. It just falls short of the ending I think Shepard deserves. Priority Earth was Ok but really I expected more from the battle for earth as well then just as many reaper forces thrown around as they could. It really seemed very rushed as did the ending. I *can* see where they were going with the ending but I don't like it at all.

I also still have a lot of moments when playing through ME3 where I feel as if the conversations have been totally taken away from us as players and Shepard just says and does her own thing without our input. It's lost some of the role playing there.


Yeah, the autodialogue was horrible. From that you can tell that the game was rushed, as they didn't have enough time to give players as many possible conversations as they did in previous titles.

#136
Nykara

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Aezync wrote...

Nykara wrote...

Aezync wrote...

Siran wrote...

aren't you a bit late to the party?


Yes but why aren't they doing anything about it? They can't just let the Shepard trilogy end like this..

Why would they? Do they not care about the fans anymore?


Yeah. I really hate that Shepards story is ending like this too. It just falls short of the ending I think Shepard deserves. Priority Earth was Ok but really I expected more from the battle for earth as well then just as many reaper forces thrown around as they could. It really seemed very rushed as did the ending. I *can* see where they were going with the ending but I don't like it at all.

I also still have a lot of moments when playing through ME3 where I feel as if the conversations have been totally taken away from us as players and Shepard just says and does her own thing without our input. It's lost some of the role playing there.


Yeah, the autodialogue was horrible. From that you can tell that the game was rushed, as they didn't have enough time to give players as many possible conversations as they did in previous titles.


I get the feeling limited space was also an issue. As in they added multiplayer but still wanted to keep the game on 2 discs for shipping.

#137
Mike1220

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i loved everything about this game :) just as good as the first 2

#138
droid105

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Hi Guys:   Look like EA wreck another game series.   They rushed Command & Conquer 4, the story was real bad and added multiplayer to it and now they did the samething with Mass Effect 3.   Mass Effect 3 seem like 2 games to me, single and multiplayer part and most of stuff in mult has best part like, armors, weapons, advance classes, new maps and all these things should have been added to single part of game when release.  I think ME3 should be been just a single player game, the first 2 where with no multiplayer.    But EA is all greed and has no loyal to fans and now Bioware is going down, soon it be EA Edmonton or they all get ship to LA.   Look what happening with SWTOR, need more customer support agents but EA keeps firing employees.   The things I hate most in ME3 is,

1)The Journal - what happen there (first 2 game had it) and total crap

2)Fetch quests - what happen here (first 2 games had side quests) but they where used for multiplayer maps

3)Graphics - what happen to graphic, should have used ME2 one

4)Armors, weapons and Advance powers - I still dont get why multiplayer gets the cool armors, weapons and advance power (ME1 and ME2 had them), they should have been added to single player also

Anyone have a time machine to go back in time and tell bioware not to sell to EA.   I wondering how did EA who just print the games out become in charge of Bioware.  It has happen to other games companion   Anyway I just adding my thoughts and I wished ME3 was epic (Alliance and Cerberus Editions)  then what we got.

#139
SwitchN7

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Mike1220 wrote...

i loved everything about this game :) just as good as the first 2


Except the more and more automated dialogue...Better! Just...better.

#140
Impulse and Compulse

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I honestly want to believe that this isn't fully Bioware's fault, it's EA's. EA always is known for not being afraid to embrace the fact that they care a hundred times more about profits than customer satisfaction, and it seems just like something they would do, releasing ME3 early to boost Q1 sales and make them look good to their investors. What they unwittingly did was completely undo one of the greatest and most valuable video game franchises of all time, and practically drive it into the ground. It may look like they sold their share and are happy enough, but EA never seems satisfied, and I think the fact that the game plummeted in price mere months after the game's release tells quite the story.

I want to have faith in Bioware again. I'm currently playing through the series again, and now I remember why I obsessed over this stuff. Why I bought every single piece of DLC simply because I just could not get ENOUGH of this amazing game.

And I'll admit, I like ME3. I think the weapons feel a lot less satisfying, and combat seems significantly less thoughtful and relies more on your ability to shoot and dodge everything, and that the side-quest system is completely awful, but I still had a load of fun playing it through for the first time, and considered it a definite contender for GOTY before the ending. But it's a combination of the disappointment and EA/Bioware's disrespectful approach to unhappy fans (yes, I liked the Extended cut, and am very glad we got it, but it's still a very disappointing ending, and it's the only thing I feel they've done right) that makes me want this series to do poorly.

Yes, I know. I hate it. I hate the idea of hating something that I love. It feels like EA zombified someone close to me, and I have to shoot it in the head to save myself. And while the series will always be near and dear to me, I really feel like I just need to move on.

#141
Maverick827

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Mass Effect 3 was a disappointment because it didn't M. Night Shyamalan you enough?  Plot lines reaching inevitable conclusions is not inherantly disappointing.  It's too easy to go off the rails and try to have too many twists.  A story should flow naturally, not set out from the start to shock or surprise the reader.  If the story flows naturally to a point that is easily guessable, I would rather the writer not "change things up" just to avoid it.

Modifié par Maverick827, 09 mars 2013 - 04:05 .


#142
Aezync

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Maverick827 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 was a disappointment because it didn't M. Night Shyamalan you enough?  Plot lines reaching inevitable conclusions is not inherantly disappointing.  It's too easy to go off the rails and try to have too many twists.  A story should flow naturally, not set out from the start to shock or surprise the reader.  If the story flows naturally to a point that is easily guessable, I would rather the writer not "change things up" just to avoid it.


lol

Okay, a previous post provided a counterarguement to your post: the story was too easy to follow and very easily comprehended. There was no depth. There was no mystery. And there certainly wasn't a reward. What was there was a predictable pathway, and if you like that, I bet you enjoyed the game immensely.

#143
Pause

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About ME3...

The price for loosing your head into something you are obsessed with; the price for becoming Shepard...

My story: So immersed in the role playing aspect of the game, I pulled a straight no break session of 12/13 hours for roughly three consecutive days out of a total of an entire week. For those intense sessions, I was tired as a rabid dog by the end of it, but my mind was satisfied knowing that it was what was required to save the Galaxy. (I chuckled at that thought before I went to sleep; how silly I was being totally absorbed in a damn video game that I would forsaken food and deprive myself of good rests, but my mind was invested.)

I had figuratively became Shepard, my mind and Shepard's became one. Hell, I was so emotionally invested that even the flaws in story, mechanics, etc all went out of the window; either I did not notice or I simply brushed past it. And when Shepard was pulling all-nighters and are mentally deteriorating, I pretty much thought to myself: 'Yep, at this rate, both of us are going to loose it; victory better be worth it.'

That was the extent of my role-playing and I am sure plenty of players did the same. My Shepard (Male) had black hair during the first two games. In ME3, his whole hair "turned" white. I have seen instances of that in real life when a person experiences so much stress that his hair "rapidly" turns to grey. I as a player during those intense RPG moments was trying to mentally fit myself into Shepard and my way of getting a feel for it; to feel the immense weight that was on Shepard's shoulder was to make myself physically suffer by playing the game with no breaks and no food; possibly the closest thing a gamer could do to emulate that emotional state. (It's unhealthy and stupid of course and arguably psycho, but I didn't care for I was invested. ;P)

So when finally I reached the end, my body exhausted, wanting to do nothing but to sleep, wishing it to be over, which I feel would be exactly what Shepard would have wished for; to finish this grisly business and save the galaxy, I was stunned, dazed by what transpired when the credit rolled. (Before EC, even after EC, still disappointed) I am not going to go into the ending for it has been done to death but I just wanted to express simply what I felt; for when I witnessed it, I was in the pure emotional trance of being Shepard in all his exhausted being, my logic could have been impaired as far as I was concerned. Being dazed is how I could explain my feeling after seeing the ending. I didn't know what to make of it, but I had this feeling that something was amiss, that it did not grant my catharsis; it lefts me hanging. It wasn't what happened to Shepard at the end, of course not; I was ready to accept that miles away as were alot of other players. In hindsight of course, I could see the flaws and shortcomings after I exit the RPG mode when logic and analysis are applied but when I was emotionally invested into the character of Shepard, everything I experienced was raw and I was emotionally vulnerable because I was wearied as was Shepard, I had to carry through my already fatigued senses. This is why I think the Indoctrination Theory could have some credence. In the situation at the end, after one pulls a few all-nighters to go through with Shepard, hell, I don't know how you could still have all of your faculty sharp and crystal clear to make the right decision that could affect trillions. It sure hell felt like having an indoctrinated mind; it was surreal affair, the whole Starchild encounter.

Per the ending, I could honestly say that I trust my feelings, for they can't be fooled and they told me that they did not like the ending and thus I don't.

One point I want to make with this is that ME3 sets you, the player to go through something like this, this hellish journey, hopefully not through a real fiendish binge playing like what I did but to put one in Shepard's shoes in the situation that he was in, what the Galaxy was in. The story of ME3 shouldn't surprises you for the previous two games have been setting all this up the whole time. Every player knows that the Reapers are coming; the inevitable all consuming war for the Galaxy. In a way, my reaction to playing ME3 was exactly how it was intended. (Before the end) In previous games, we were following Shepard, making decisions, yes, but we were never close to becoming him/her, only observing and acting out a Shepard that we think ought to be given our bias and perceptions. In ME3, we were close to figuratively becoming the hero because by this time you know your Shepard pretty much inside and out and thus all the more close to him emotionally like never before; and this game being the only one that actually involve you into an all-out conflict that was never present before. To Bioware's credit, I think this part of the implementation of ME3 was successful despite the things that were wrong with it. In a way, it was an easy setting to suck the players in in an impending brutal total war. We have seen it before many times but it works because it hints at humanity's innate strength of coming together as one against a common enemy, against overwhelming odds. This inevitably pits us to invest ourselves in whatever we are doing to achieve the goal even if it is remote and seemingly unattainable and we'd do it or die trying even if it was imaginary and pixels from an electronic screen. Still I think Bioware deserves applaud for setting this up admirably well to makes the players invested in the experience.

However, this high emotional investment is also the reason why there was such an uproar from the community about the ending. People were so emotionally entrenched into the story, into their Shepard that they were suspended high; they were in a higher energy state. In the end to be "dropped" and "slammed" into the ground was not what people expected. It was like humor except it was not funny; the unexpected did not bring joy. This is an instance where I would say that a story needs to go in a path of least resistance. There is just not a lot you could temper with and you shouldn't; there was two games building it all up for pete's sake. Imagine say by the end of LoTR Return of the King, suddenly it was revealed that Sauron was not the Lord of the Rings; that it was some new being/character that was never introduced at all. To a reader who isn't totally familiar with Tolkien's mytho and only reading and judging the book by what was introduced in it, he/she would of course call bollocks. Unless you then to start making exposition on this new char and continue the story into perhaps a forth book, you just can't end the story without the readers feeling cheated.

Again, the players could have forgiven alot of missteps were they not huge. The price for feeling Shepard is that it raises expectation to extraordinary high, and falling from that height does not bode well for anybody, Bioware or the fans. It was a double edged sword and unfortunately I agree with most that Bioware didn't come through to make ME3 the best game of the Decade or perhaps even in the history of gaming and beyond. But it was hell of a ride to be sure. So I am of the sentiment that ME3 did alot of things right but also did alot of things wrong, some very wrongs that shouldn't have been. ME1 was "golden", ME2 was "singular", and ME3 was "emotional". If only the spirit that went into ME1 was injected throughout the entire trilogy. I by no means would think that Bioware was entirely faultless but with EA as publisher, I cannot but feel much of the bad decisions have to involve them. Kinda tragic really but hey that's life, nothing can be implemented as desired and nothing is perfect or can be. Still, shame that it did not end on a high note that would have been glorious to be but it was a good trip, things went horribly wrong at the end but the trip was trippin' :P

So despite everything that had transpired, I hope ME4 would turn things around and proves that Bioware still got it in them to make the best RPGs in gaming...that is of course if EA would just let them do what they do best and stop trying to pander to trigger happy twitch junkies and forcing developments. Intangible investment in brewing good game development practices and design goes a long way in making profits.

But knowing that it's EA and from seeing what's been done to C&C, I doubt it.

Do hope ME4 turns out well though.

Modifié par Pause, 09 mars 2013 - 09:42 .


#144
Nykara

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Pause wrote...

About ME3...

The price for loosing your head into something you are obsessed with; the price for becoming Shepard...

My story: So immersed in the role playing aspect of the game, I pulled a straight no break session of 12/13 hours for roughly three consecutive days out of a total of an entire week. For those intense sessions, I was tired as a rabid dog by the end of it, but my mind was satisfied knowing that it was what was required to save the Galaxy. (I chuckled at that thought before I went to sleep; how silly I was being totally absorbed in a damn video game that I would forsaken food and deprive myself of good rests, but my mind was invested.)

I had figuratively became Shepard, my mind and Shepard's became one. Hell, I was so emotionally invested that even the flaws in story, mechanics, etc all went out of the window; either I did not notice or I simply brushed past it. And when Shepard was pulling all-nighters and are mentally deteriorating, I pretty much thought to myself: 'Yep, at this rate, both of us are going to loose it; victory better be worth it.'

That was the extent of my role-playing and I am sure plenty of players did the same. My Shepard (Male) had black hair during the first two games. In ME3, his whole hair "turned" white. I have seen instances of that in real life when a person experiences so much stress that his hair "rapidly" turns to grey. I as a player during those intense RPG moments was trying to mentally fit myself into Shepard and my way of getting a feel for it; to feel the immense weight that was on Shepard's shoulder was to make myself physically suffer by playing the game with no breaks and no food; possibly the closest thing a gamer could do to emulate that emotional state. (It's unhealthy and stupid of course and arguably psycho, but I didn't care for I was invested. ;P)

So when finally I reached the end, my body exhausted, wanting to do nothing but to sleep, wishing it to be over, which I feel would be exactly what Shepard would have wished for; to finish this grisly business and save the galaxy, I was stun, dazed by what transpired when the credit rolled. (Before EC, even after EC, still disappointed) I am not going to go into the ending for it has been done to death but I just wanted to express simply what I felt; for when I witnessed it, I was in the pure emotional trance of being Shepard in all his exhausted being, my logic could have been impaired as far as I was concerned. Being dazed is how I could explain my feeling after seeing the ending. I didn't know what to make of it, but I had this feeling that something was amiss, that it did not grant my catharsis; it lefts me hanging. It wasn't that Shepard died in the end, of course not; I was ready to accept that miles away as were alot of other players. In hindsight of course, I could see the flaws and shortcomings after I exit the RPG mode when logic and analysis are applied but when I was emotionally invested into the character of Shepard, everything I experienced was raw and I was emotionally vulnerable because I was wearied as was Shepard, I had to carry through my already fatigued senses. This is why I think the Indoctrination Theory could have some credence. In the situation at the end, after one pulls a few all-nighters to go through with Shepard, hell, I don't know how you could still have all of your faculty sharp and crystal clear to make the right decision that could affect trillions. It sure hell felt like having an indoctrinated mind; it was surreal affair, the whole Starchild encounter.

Per the ending, I could honestly say that I trust my feelings, for they can't be fooled and they told me that they did not like the ending and thus I don't.

One point I want to make with this is that ME3 sets you, the player to go through something like this, this hellish journey, hopefully not through a real fiendish binge playing like what I did but to put one in Shepard's shoes in the situation that he was in, what the Galaxy was in. The story of ME3 shouldn't surprises you for the previous two games have been setting all this up the whole time. Every player knows that the Reapers are coming; the inevitable all consuming war for the Galaxy. In a way, my reaction to playing ME3 was exactly how it was intended. (Before the end) In previous games, we were following Shepard, making decisions, yes, but we were never close to becoming him/her, only observing and acting out a Shepard that we think ought to be given our bias and perceptions. In ME3, we were close to figuratively becoming the hero because by this time you know your Shepard pretty much inside and out and thus all the more close to him emotionally like never before; and this game being the only one that actually involve you into an all-out conflict that was never present before. To Bioware's credit, I think this part of the implementation of ME3 was successful despite the things that were wrong with it. In a way, it was an easy setting to suck the players in in an impending brutal total war. We have seen it before many times but it works because it hints at humanity's innate strength of coming together as one against a common enemy, against overwhelming odds. This inevitably pits us to invest ourselves in whatever we are doing to achieve the goal even if it is remote and seemingly unattainable and we'd do it or die trying even if it was imaginary and pixels from an electronic screen. Still I think Bioware deserves applaud for setting this up admirably well to makes the players invested in the experience.

However, this high emotional investment is also the reason why there was such an uproar from the community about the ending. People were so emotionally entrenched into the story, into their Shepard that they were suspended high; they were in a higher energy state. In the end to be "dropped" and "slammed" into the ground was not what people expected. It was like humor except it was not funny; the unexpected did not bring joy. This is an instance where I would say that a story needs to go in a path of least resistance. There is just not a lot you could temper with and you shouldn't; there was two games building it all up for pete's sake. Imagine say by the end of LoTR Return of the King, suddenly it was revealed that Sauron was not the Lord of the Rings; that it was some new being/character that was never introduced at all. To a reader who isn't totally familiar with Tolkien's mytho and only reading and judging the book by what was introduced in it, he/she would of course call bollocks. Unless you then to start making exposition on this new char and continue the story into perhaps a forth book, you just can't end the story without the readers feeling cheated.

Again, the players could have forgiven alot of missteps were they not huge. The price for feeling Shepard is that it raises expectation to extraordinary high, and falling from that height does not bode well for anybody, Bioware or the fans. It was a double edged sword and unfortunately I agree with most that Bioware didn't come through to make ME3 the best game of the Decade or perhaps even in the history of gaming and beyond. But it was hell of a ride to be sure. So I am of the sentiment that ME3 did alot of things right but also did alot of things wrong, some very wrongs that shouldn't have been. ME1 was "golden", ME2 was "singular", and ME3 was "emotional". If only the spirit that went into ME1 was injected throughout the entire trilogy. I by no means would think that Bioware was entirely faultless but with EA as publisher, I cannot but feel much of the bad decisions have to involve them. Kinda tragic really but hey that's life, nothing can be implemented as desired and nothing is perfect or can be. Still, shame that it did not end on a high note that would have been glorious to be but it was a good trip, things went horribly wrong at the end but the trip was trippin' :P

So despite everything that had transpired, I hope ME4 would turn things around and proves that Bioware still got it in them to make the best RPGs in gaming...that is of course if EA would just let them do what they do best and stop trying to pander to trigger happy twitch junkies and forcing developments. Intangible investment in brewing good game development practices and design goes a long way in making profits.

But knowing that it's EA and from seeing what's been done to C&C, I doubt it.

Do hope ME4 turns out well though.


I have to say that I would have to agree with almost everything written here! I'm even often too lazy to read an entire large post like that but I read this one.

I am really having a hard time seeing an ME future without more Shepard, Liara, Kaidan, Tali, Garrus, Wrex, James and alll my other favorite characters throughout the series. It's going to take a hell of a lot of good writing to make characters as good as these all have been over this series. I do hope that they stick to trilogies - that's how we end up getting invested in characters as well - seeing them grow and evolve over several games. I think it is rather silly that they are not going to continue the ME3 DLC's for longer given that it is the last Shepard game. They probably want to put the whole ending thing behind them though.

But hey, when I play a video game and put in all that hard work I want a good ending. By a good ending I mean one where we are actually working towards a real victory where all or favorite people can live happy ever after - i don't care how disney people see it. None of the endings felt like a victory at all. Being the spoiler free section I wont go in to specific details but it really was just 3 bad variations of bad endings to choose from. ( A 4th even worse one with EC ).  It's sad that Mass Effect 3 could have gone down in a blaze of glory if only the endings had been done better.  I too would really like to think it was the result of being rushed - if that was the case though would it not have been resolved with the EC?

#145
Rickin10

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 It's interesting how my feelings for ME3 have changed. I was gutted when I first played it,  but over time I guess i've grown to accept it's failings and accept it for what it is.  I never really hated the end, as limited as it was, but more the buildup to it.  It was supposed to be a galactic battle where all your assets that you'd aquired would be at your side in the final battle.  Yet there was precious little seen of the other races, it felt more like the Alliance vs the Reapers, with the odd Krogan, Asari and Turian here and there.  There was no sense of entire races actually in the war.

However the more I've played the game, the more cemented i've become in my view of  bioware's most obvious crime.  I think the outcry over the end rather got Bioware out of jail in  some respects.  All that focus took people's attention away from their betrayal of the series' raison d'etra: choices matter.

It is truly galling how little all the supposedly big decisions you made over the previous games (Rachni queen, VS, Council,  The Heretics, CB etc) actually affected anything in ME3.

Despite that ME3 was still a fantastic game in isolation.  It just didn't live up to the many promises made by the developers and their PR mouthpieces.

#146
Pause

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Rickin10 wrote...
 I think the outcry over the end rather got Bioware out of jail in  some respects.  All that focus took people's attention away from their betrayal of the series' raison d'etra: choices matter.


I second that. For whatever it was worth, ME3 did charge us emotionally and the shortcoming of the ending only exacerbated the issue by diverging our attention. Like you said, ME has always been about the choices you make storywise, dialogue wheels game mechanic-wise. There was nothing else that hook players up more than that for this series; it was what the games hinge on for all the series' success and popularity.

The severe cut in dialogue options throughout the entire game (Missing middle choice) made it paled in comparison to previous titles. Coupled with the breakneck rapid story resolution with the Starchild; having no time to sink in the information before the end of the game, only managed to magnify the damage of this train wreck. It could be said that Bioware had lost focus in the production of this game; for they had forgotten the very core of this series' mechanical underpinning: Dialogue/choices/investigation. Perhaps they were forced to pander or rushed by EA or for whatever reasons, but rest assured the result was not optimal. 

For story telling, I am of the opinion that anything is open, but there is a point/limit to how much one could play with framework. The trick is to play with the content of your story, not so much on the frameworks for there's only so much you could do there. Starchild would have been fine if he was introduced fully earlier and fleshed out, not in the span of the last 10 mins.       

And of course, the whole EMS thing...Besides the silliness, it made you attached to a sense of false hope that everything you do before the final battle would matter, reminesent of ME2 Suicide Mission. You'd think there would be some sort of reflection in cutscenes or whatnot that would showcase a lot of what you have accomplished but no. 

I think that the majority of the build-up, minus the few shoddy resolutions to loose ends/secondary storylines (Rachni Queen etc), was fine. But again the vast difference in quality and scope between the build-up and the finale really stopped you in your tracks. It amounted to an almost Schizophrenic air.  

Modifié par Pause, 09 mars 2013 - 09:15 .


#147
Spartas Husky

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Watch the vid on my sig on youtube. Statistical data showed the majority was, is, and will remain so.

Shame. I mean it has already been stated many times before so ... I play up until the beam. Then go read Koobismo on deviant art alternative ending so. :P

#148
Zing Freelancer

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I think one mistake ME3 did is to discard the sense of time. Last time we've seen Shepard was in ME2 DLC and then we see him on earth, chilling, waiting for Reaper fleet to arrive. We get introduced to the game moments before Reapers arrive.
Q: What happened in between? Did Shepard just sit on his ass for several month waiting for Reapers to come and break down the doors? Massive waste of time and Batarian life's, that what I call it.

Then Earth is taken by Reapers, but somehow humans still manage to fight back and keep a resistance going. Meanwhile Shepard must dance round the galaxy, fixing other problems and gathering allies. Turians and Asari loosing their home worlds, but because its Shepard they are willing to fight to liberate humans home world.

And dont even get me started on the Crucible. A super weapon that has been in production for multiple cycles, each cycle something new got added to the blue print and conveniently enough it was completed for us to build and use. Worst use of Dues Ex machina in human history.

#149
Eralrik

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I'll get in on this conversation....

I really enjoyed playing Mass Effect 1, I really enjoyed the Mako an the freedom of exploration finding artifacts, downed probes, mummified people and etc...I felt a certain amount of freedom in that aspect of play an I enjoyed working an looking for that next really nice weapon or Armor to fit on team mates, I enjoyed the micromanagement asspect of my Inventory. I really got sucked into the story and enjoyed talking to crew members an learning something of their pasts and going off an doing the side missions for them.

Mass Effect 2 got rid of my Mako and my Inventory and some of the armor aspects for party members didn't really make sense, like a toxic and volcanic planet and Miranda has an oxygen mask on her hair and skin should have been melting an burning off. Or the live ships in the Quarrian Fleet for instance the only one with a full suit is Garrus and Tali everyone else should have been in full suits as well as not to contaminate the Quarians. But on another note I really enjoyed the story an the side missions for the crew and getting to know everyone even the npc's in Engineering and Rupert the cook and toilet cleaner were all fun to talk an listen to. ME2's DLC is still fun though Overlords missing companion comments were lacking an tended to make the missions a tad quiet but I still enjoyed it. ME2's Suicide mission still feels epic even on my 17th playthrough.

ME3's Journal sucks an was not very well implemented an when I go to check it I always find it sitting in a codex or at the bottom of my mission log for completed mission's an it was a tad annoying.
The spacebar being home to many things on it an not being mappable on PC really annoy's me still even to this point especially when I played the Citadel DLC an trying to avoid the boss I would try an jump out of the way an instead get attached to the side of a crate or when I wanted to duck I would jump over what I was trying to hide behind, I died way to much to stupid controls.

I enjoyed the story and the missions, I enjoyed Tuchanka and the Quarian Mission's. I'm still trying to figure out how the Reapers moved a Mass Relay thats even bigger than the other Mass Relays an even Soverign looked big against the Tuarian fleet still looked small in the Citadel, it defies the laws of physic's it would have taken 10 years on thrusters to move the citadel to Sol <Though i wish i could find that picture someone drew of 1000 Reapers with Tow Cables hauling the Citadel>.

I enjoyed Earth and really wish we had more mission's as it felt hurried and short, then Harbinger pops in for a brief appearance an blows up the street, which in all aspects should have ended Shepard's career as no one I know of has survived a Reapers beam as i found out a few times against the small Reaper on Rannok, An Harbinger being a much larger Reaper with a bigger beam no one on that street should have even walked away or crawled away.
<My Brain tends to over think alot an I just can't turn it off I have to analyze an research>
The whole starchild and those choices would have been an amazing story if it was Shepard battling Harbinger's influence in a fevered state in a mash unit in battle of Wills, who is stronger Shepard or Harbinger even Leviathan ommented that Shepard is an anomaly.

So like so many others I end my mission at the beam of light an go on to create my own ending I sometimes write it down or I think it through in my mind. Some of my endings are not always so happy fellow teammates killed when Normandy takes a hit an even Shepard has been killed. I've even had it where Indoctranated scientists had been secretly sabotaging the crucible an when it is deployed it ends up blowing up along with the Citadel.
An I do have my Happy endings where Shepard kicks the Reapers butts an turns the tide, where Reapers retreat back to Dark Space.
Shepard then is promoted to Commodore an put in charge of the N7 program that will incorporate both N7 and Specter training methods for the new breed of soldiers.
<Oh sorry my mind ran away from me>
But overall even with its negative and lack of story selection choices weather paragon or renegade moments that could have been there, I enjoyed ME3 even with all the DLC and the Citadel DLC is now my favorite, I still hate the endings but would have loved them if it had been part of the indocturnation theory.
I give ME3 a 7/10 and a 1/2 out of 10 for the ending even with the extended cut with option 4 the slap in the face for questioning their artistic integrity.

#150
Faulcun

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my opinion doesnt matter, but this is an interesting video on information gathered about the ending and overall fan approval/disapproval

www.youtube.com/watch

edit: im sure this has been posted elsewhere already though.

Modifié par Faulcun, 10 mars 2013 - 05:34 .