283 réponses à ce sujet

[rolson00]

gw2005 wrote...

 As per title. Just look at how popular this is. And that's just the armour. But I know, and seeing how it took 8 years for the WOW to introduce the Pandaria expension, it's understandable, I mean, there's lots of room to expand on without having to resort to introducing entire new continents into the game (I'm guessing that's what would be required). Thoughts?

they would have to go to a new continent DA currently is based on the three power houses of medieval Europe (Britain. France & Spain) but on the other hand the  Tevinter Imperium could be used to introduce new nations threw enslaved citizens

[imbs]

Plaintiff wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

There is no Asia in Dragon Age, nor should there be. The universe is an allegory of medieval Europe.

You know, it's the darnedest thing, but universes typically have more than one continent in them.

i coulda sworn you were being super self righteous in other threads about straw-man arguments. Must have been someone else I guess.

[Yumichika]

To my opinion devellopers have to start getting influences from everywhere. To me when it comes to creating a new world u don't have to be limited by ur culture only specially in fantasy video games. They did for decades it's time that changes. 

I checked the design style from the picture posted on WoW bravo Bioware artists! on this. i must admit i'm disapointed cause once again everything is taking their inspiration from one point.

Fantasy game are limited to England, France, Germany as source of inspiration most of the times. So nowadays they are all quite the same, same outfits, same animals, same legends, same culture etc except in japanese fantasy video games, they never hesitate on creating pink haired people fantasy animals etc...

Dragon age world is fictionnal so normally a lot of things could be allowed.

I think they will do a good design job but honestly without surprise, fantasy etc...

The concept art that have been published yet shows the french/anglo-saxone tendency. What a shame ! I sure will be frustrated as everytime but well what can we do ? <_< 

Dragon age have to stay the darker possible, plus a part of fantasy introducing a mix of what is fancy, special, weird, strange from here and there and make a H... of a good mix.

Modifié par Yumichika, 25 février 2013 - 09:44 .

[Plaintiff]

imbs wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

There is no Asia in Dragon Age, nor should there be. The universe is an allegory of medieval Europe.

You know, it's the darnedest thing, but universes typically have more than one continent in them.

i coulda sworn you were being super self righteous in other threads about straw-man arguments. Must have been someone else I guess.

My self-righteousness can't be contained in a single thread.

[imbs]

Plaintiff wrote...

imbs wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

There is no Asia in Dragon Age, nor should there be. The universe is an allegory of medieval Europe.

You know, it's the darnedest thing, but universes typically have more than one continent in them.

i coulda sworn you were being super self righteous in other threads about straw-man arguments. Must have been someone else I guess.

My self-righteousness can't be contained in a single thread.

nor your hypocrisy

[Plaintiff]

imbs wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

imbs wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

There is no Asia in Dragon Age, nor should there be. The universe is an allegory of medieval Europe.

You know, it's the darnedest thing, but universes typically have more than one continent in them.

i coulda sworn you were being super self righteous in other threads about straw-man arguments. Must have been someone else I guess.

My self-righteousness can't be contained in a single thread.

nor your hypocrisy

I don't think you know what hypocrisy actually is.

[imbs]

Plaintiff wrote...

imbs wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

imbs wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

There is no Asia in Dragon Age, nor should there be. The universe is an allegory of medieval Europe.

You know, it's the darnedest thing, but universes typically have more than one continent in them.

i coulda sworn you were being super self righteous in other threads about straw-man arguments. Must have been someone else I guess.

My self-righteousness can't be contained in a single thread.

nor your hypocrisy

I don't think you know what hypocrisy actually is.

Wat a coincidence. I was gonna say the same thing about you and those strawmans you seem to love mentioning.

I just figured it was just you sticking with the usual go-to argument strat for pseudo-intellectuals of citing logical fallacies no matter how inappropriate or wrong one is in doing so. But hey whatever wins the day in the battle for the interwebs, am i right?

[Plaintiff]

imbs wrote...

Wat a coincidence. I was gonna say the same thing about you and those strawmans you seem to love mentioning.

I just figured it was just you sticking with the usual go-to argument strat for pseudo-intellectuals of citing logical fallacies no matter how inappropriate or wrong one is in doing so. But hey whatever wins the day in the battle for the interwebs, am i right?

Are you actually going to tell me what you imagine I'm wrong about? Or are you just going to keep throwing out words that you don't actually understand?

[Eleinehmm]

Umm, take it to the private, gents.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Well, all the nations in Thedas are based on medieval Europe.

(Something along the lines of Orlais - France,
                                                       Ferelden - England
                                                       Anderfels- Holy Roman Empire
                                                       Tevinter - Byzantine
                                                       Nevarra - Prussia(?)
                                                       Antiva - Italian city-state/Spain(?)
                                                       Free Marches - Italian city-state
                                                       Rivain - Spain with Moorish influence)

And as far as I know, there has been no mention of contact with other continents aside from the one whence the Qunari came. So while it is true that medieval Europe wasn't an isolated island, it seems like Thedas is.

[Fast Jimmy]

rolson00 wrote...

gw2005 wrote...

 As per title. Just look at how popular this is. And that's just the armour. But I know, and seeing how it took 8 years for the WOW to introduce the Pandaria expension, it's understandable, I mean, there's lots of room to expand on without having to resort to introducing entire new continents into the game (I'm guessing that's what would be required). Thoughts?

they would have to go to a new continent DA currently is based on the three power houses of medieval Europe (Britain. France & Spain) but on the other hand the  Tevinter Imperium could be used to introduce new nations threw enslaved citizens

Introducing non-white human races in the DA games through slavery? 

I don't see that ending particularly well. 

[Zkyire]

Edit: Nevermind, didn't see mod post.

Modifié par Zkyire, 25 février 2013 - 12:54 .

[philippe willaume]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Well, all the nations in Thedas are based on medieval Europe.

(Something along the lines of Orlais - France,
                                                       Ferelden - England
                                                       Anderfels- Holy Roman Empire
                                                       Tevinter - Byzantine
                                                       Nevarra - Prussia(?)
                                                       Antiva - Italian city-state/Spain(?)
                                                       Free Marches - Italian city-state
                                                       Rivain - Spain with Moorish influence)

And as far as I know, there has been no mention of contact with other continents aside from the one whence the Qunari came. So while it is true that medieval Europe wasn't an isolated island, it seems like Thedas is.

yes but being said if we have Moorish spain you then can have africain. the ghana empire was part of the Almoravid empire after all.
phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 25 février 2013 - 12:59 .

[Asch Lavigne]

Isn't Thedas just one part of the world? (Doesn't the game state that the Qunari came from somewhere across the sea and not Thedas?) Kind of makes sense to me that you wouldn't have so many ethnicities then. We went around the world and.... everybody looks the same as they do back home.

[Herr Uhl]

philippe willaume wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Well, all the nations in Thedas are based on medieval Europe.

(Something along the lines of Orlais - France,
                                                       Ferelden - England
                                                       Anderfels- Holy Roman Empire
                                                       Tevinter - Byzantine
                                                       Nevarra - Prussia(?)
                                                       Antiva - Italian city-state/Spain(?)
                                                       Free Marches - Italian city-state
                                                       Rivain - Spain with Moorish influence)

And as far as I know, there has been no mention of contact with other continents aside from the one whence the Qunari came. So while it is true that medieval Europe wasn't an isolated island, it seems like Thedas is.

yes but being said if we have Moorish spain you then can have africain. the ghana empire was part of the Almoravid empire after all.
phil

The problem is that that niche is already filled by the Qunari. You'd have to introduce an entirely new faction that has had no apparent interaction with mainland Thedas.

Making the Qunari more African-y seems kind of insulting considering their demonic looks.

[Fast Jimmy]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Isn't Thedas just one part of the world? (Doesn't the game state that the Qunari came from somewhere across the sea and not Thedas?) Kind of makes sense to me that you wouldn't have so many ethnicities then. We went around the world and.... everybody looks the same as they do back home.

Considering we still haven't seen Orlais, Tevinter, Rivain, Par Vollen or a number of other locations in the "world" we do know, I think many people are saying they would rather explore those places first, before galavanting off to other lands. 

And, if other lands do exist, no one talks about them in game. Not to say they don't exist, but at the same time... it would kind of be a big deal if a new group of people just rowed up on a boat. That would need to be a rather large plot event, not something they can just slip into story.

[Plaintiff]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The problem is that that niche is already filled by the Qunari. You'd have to introduce an entirely new faction that has had no apparent interaction with mainland Thedas.

That's not a problem at all. Thedas is one continent out of lord knows how many. The map of Thedas clearly shows that the landmass extends beyond it established borders, not to menton any amount of new landmasses could be waiting far across the sea. The Qunari randomly showed up in Thedas 300 years ago in massive warships. They msut've come from somewhere.

Considering how literally nothing is known of the world beyond Thedas, it would be easy work to introduce a new continent and new cultures with which the people of Thedas have had no previous contact.

[horacethegrey]

Plaintiff wrote...

That's not a problem at all. Thedas is one continent out of lord knows how many. The map of Thedas clearly shows that the landmass extends beyond it established borders, not to menton any amount of new landmasses could be waiting far across the sea. The Qunari randomly showed up in Thedas 300 years ago in massive warships. They msut've come from somewhere.

Considering how literally nothing is known of the world beyond Thedas, it would be easy work to introduce a new continent and new cultures with which the people of Thedas have had no previous contact.

As I said before, perhaps East of Thedas lies the Jade Empire. 

[Medhia Nox]

It's kinda interesting how Euro-centric fantasy enthusiasts tend to be.

China, India and Japan - Aztecs, Maya and Incan - Egyptian, Carthaginian, Nubia - the indigenous of Australia, South Pacific Islanders - Arabians, Persians, Russians - Celtic and Norse - Cherokee, Iroquois and Sioux ....

There are hundreds of cultures more interesting than another story about England, France, Spain and Italy.

Warhammer Fantasy and Hyboria are so superior to Thedas and always will be (despite my appreciation for the work Bioware has done here).

I fully support Bioware exploring different cultural mythologies.

[Herr Uhl]

Medhia Nox wrote...

It's kinda interesting how Euro-centric fantasy enthusiasts tend to be.

China, India and Japan - Aztecs, Maya and Incan - Egyptian, Carthaginian, Nubia - the indigenous of Australia, South Pacific Islanders - Arabians, Persians, Russians - Celtic and Norse - Cherokee, Iroquois and Sioux ....

There are hundreds of cultures more interesting than another story about England, France, Spain and Italy.

Warhammer Fantasy and Hyboria are so superior to Thedas and always will be (despite my appreciation for the work Bioware has done here).

I fully support Bioware exploring different cultural mythologies.

Dwarves and elves are literally Norse culture and mythology. Tolkien is a mix of Celtic and Norse.

[soignee]

 Borrowing from other cultures not your own in visual things (like fashion and video games) is a hard balance to make right. Styles and clothing come with their own history and culture, and sometimes stealing/moulding them to fit something that can be deemed as frivolous (like fashion or video game art) is insulting to those that feel that it's theirs.

I am going to use fashion, as I am more fimilar with it and to be honest it does the same thing as video game art/style; it's visual and defines a story. For example: a naive middle class Spanish fashion designer might be sitting in his/her studio going, "Native Americans look cool, I like feathered headdresses, that's a good look for s/s 2014" and not realise that taking that visual idea and including it in their work can be seen as downright offensive to some.

Even something as seemingly innocuous as a print or weave is seeped in history and stories; while I used the naive euro fashion designer as an example, this happens often. Anyone remember the "I am not a costume" campaign that's been running for a few years?

If you're vaguely attentive, you will recognise that Navajo print was everywhere on clothes last year, like one of the links above shows. I know that most of the designers were either ignorant/did not care about the history of it, and grabbed it from a google image search. Google image search is used a lot by all kinds of designers, it's like a dirty habit no one talks about.

And believe me, videogame artists are just as lazy as other kinds of designers. I've worked in many studios where google image search becomes a textile print for something. I know VG artists do the same; one of the default hair styles is this in Dragon Age: Origins, which is pretty much a blatant copy of, right down to the errant strand to the left of the face,  the top searches for "bob cut" or variation of the words in google image searches. 

What I am trying to grasp at is that appropriation and appreciation are fine lines to tread. It doesn't  mean that you shouldn't write, draw or design outside your own cultural grasp, but knowing the little I know about the gaming industry from friends who work in it, there is no time to do it properly and with pathos/appreciation in mind. There are always deadlines, and well meaning intentions can and will get lost in the cut.

Modifié par soignee, 25 février 2013 - 01:56 .

[Medhia Nox]

@Herr Uhl: Well sure - but the dwarves in Orzammar are a fairly original take on dwarves (their culture) - as are the Thedas elves.

Thedas elves and dwarves take more from D&D than they do from Norse myth.

[Plaintiff]

As far as hair goes, there's only so many ways you can do a bob cut. You might as well say Bioware is ripping off the colour red

And there's a vast difference between co-opting ethnic art to make lingerie, which you then market as an "Exotic Eastern Experience", and taking some aspects of different real cultures and cobbling them together to make an entirely new, entirely fictional culture for your fantasy world.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 25 février 2013 - 02:04 .

[Asch Lavigne]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Isn't Thedas just one part of the world? (Doesn't the game state that the Qunari came from somewhere across the sea and not Thedas?) Kind of makes sense to me that you wouldn't have so many ethnicities then. We went around the world and.... everybody looks the same as they do back home.

Considering we still haven't seen Orlais, Tevinter, Rivain, Par Vollen or a number of other locations in the "world" we do know, I think many people are saying they would rather explore those places first, before galavanting off to other lands. 

And, if other lands do exist, no one talks about them in game. Not to say they don't exist, but at the same time... it would kind of be a big deal if a new group of people just rowed up on a boat. That would need to be a rather large plot event, not something they can just slip into story.

I'm not saying lets go galavanting around the world. I'm saying Thedas is one part of the world. It can not and should not have every culture/race/ethinicty packed into it. 

[Yumichika]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Isn't Thedas just one part of the world? (Doesn't the game state that the Qunari came from somewhere across the sea and not Thedas?) Kind of makes sense to me that you wouldn't have so many ethnicities then. We went around the world and.... everybody looks the same as they do back home.

I'll try to answer depending on my opinion :
1st) It's supposed to be fantasy so no restriction then. Everything should be possible.
a) DAO was made to be a non-serie game. So it has excuses.
They said DA2 did not have enough time to be develloped due to 'x' reasons.
c) They also said DA3 will be a completly new different game based on the two first that mean if they were able to change the physicall aspect of the Qunaris they can redo such for the citizens and history of Thedas in General.

2nd) Worldwide gamers are playing DA so at least as it's not a story inspired by reality they can try to be close to what can feel an asian, south american or african player. Or other ethnicities and culture in north america and etc. Plus that will help the game being different from what we saw thousand times on TV, Video games, comics...

Who will be able to say in what DA is original, innovating different from the other games on the market when it comes to fashion, culture etc ? Even the last concept art from DA are so close to what the people from spain and italy were wearing that u can't say it's really is fictionnal. 

Actually we agree to one point there is no such diversity in DA than what it should have (some of our opinion), A worldwide fantasy game should have worldwide inspiration. 

And to me the tatoos were more of celtics than from any other ethnicity and culture, u can compare them to what u have in everysingle Heroic fantasy games. Ex Skyrim.

I'm still waiting for Innovation from bioware concerning that point. They did not show it to me.