180 réponses à ce sujet

[Treason1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does she really, 100% say "I knew that Flemeth sent me along to get pregnant, from the very start?" All that I recall her saying is that "this was Flemeth's plan from the start," not her's. If I'm correct in remembering, then perhaps the plan was something else she dug up out of Flemeth's grimoire and kept to herself, waiting for the right moment to spring it. The more pressing threat (to her, at least) of Flemeth stealing her body having been eliminated, time to secure the same power her mother wanted, for herself.

[Joshd21]

Treason1 wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does she really, 100% say "I knew that Flemeth sent me along to get pregnant, from the very start?" All that I recall her saying is that "this was Flemeth's plan from the start," not her's. If I'm correct in remembering, then perhaps the plan was something else she dug up out of Flemeth's grimoire and kept to herself, waiting for the right moment to spring it. The more pressing threat (to her, at least) of Flemeth stealing her body having been eliminated, time to secure the same power her mother wanted, for herself.

When you speak to Morrgian at the very end, and if she is romantic feelings with you. Or on her good side, I forget which one. In any case, Morrgian says

PC: So is this why you been so nice to me?

Morrgian: It's why I was sent with you, why my mother rescused you from the tower, caring for you was not part of it. But if that makes your life saved then I'm all the more detmirned to do it

Even if you don't give her the book in mages tower. She still asks you to do the ritual, it was clear that is why her mother saved you from the tower and why she sent Morrgian along with you. Perhaps Morrgian didn't know about her trying to capture her body

Untill You gave her the book and she discovered it. Yes I'm aware that is could all be a lie, that Morrgian could be saying her mother intended to possess her and party members such as Shale make comments such as

Shale: So I hear, swamp witch killed her own mother

Morrgian: Clearly in self defense

Then they talk about the book and Shale says that could been her plan all along. I honestly don't believe that it was her plan to kill her mother, I think it was known to both her mother and her about the ritual though uncovering the book was not something was planned

Though you could aruge back it was planned, based on reaction from Morrgians mother and Morrgian when she discovered it. I'd figure that it was unexpected when Morrgian did this, also you have to consider You Find her mothers book in the tower

Though you can complete the story without even killing her mother. If she really planned kill her mother, think she would make it more so obvious

[Urazz]

Suprez30 wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

1. Can you believe Morrigan on this subject? Remember that it has been her intention all along, from her departure from Flemeth's hut up until the night before battle, she had not mentioned the option of the ritual. How could the fetus NOT be tainted, since it was the tainted blood in the fetus that attracts the Old God's soul at the crucial moment?
2. SPOILER. Even if Morrigan's Approval of you is 100 (Love), if you refuse to let her get impregnated by you or Alistair, she will leave that night, abandoning you (the person she supposedly loves) right when you will need her the most for the coming battle. Apparently, if you don't give her what she wants, she has no further use for you.
3. In several places they speak of what happens to the Old God soul if it wasn't a Warden that kills it. It transfers to the nearest darkspawn-blooded creature. Eventually it works it's way back into a dragon body as it transfers around. If it transfers into the fetus, it probably becomes the mother's prisoner (if that mother knows what is going on and has enough power of her own). Whatever the reason, _Morrigan_ believes she would take command of the Old God soul and bend it to her bidding.
4. When Morrigan got her hands on the Black Grimoire she explains that in it it says that the more powerful the host, the "easier it is for her to settle in". The general impression I got was that the more powerful the host, the more powerful Flemeth/Morrigan would be.

I _really_ get the impression that the ultimate goal is eventually harness all that power and then to start a campaign to make the entire world bend knee to the all-powerful Morrigan. (Putting her inferiority complex to rest once and for all.)

1:Yeah it's was her plan ... But she never knew that Flemeth would eventually kill her.She did not know either the true motive of Flemeth ..She tell the Warden that she understand more her Mother and want to complete the ritual after reading in flemeth book.

2:That what i don't really understand.She stay if you impregnate her.Even though she can be anywhere.She don't have to be close to the archdemon..But leave right away if you refuse the offer.If you don't have her come with you to fight the archdemon.She's clearly pissed.I simply don't understand her.If you insist  .. She tell you that it's hard for her to leave .. But that her destiny and you have YOUR destiny .. I find this ironic .. because Morrigan ain't the type to believe in fate.

3:You're making off thing.She never said she would bind him .. She just said it's has to be saved and she will tech the kids his origins.Nothing more..But that she has to be away from civilization.

4:Morrigan ain't Flemeth .

I dunno if she truly wants to do what Flemeth had planned for the child.  Remember Flemeth is an abomination and Morrigan is not so Flemeth's technique might not be possible for Morrigan as a human.  But will she become an abominination to be able to use Flemeth's technique?  Possibly, but that may be kind of iffy as we don't know if Morrigan knows what kind of demon Flemeth fused with and it may have different results for her than her mother.

Of course Morrigan may be following Flemeth's plan for herself, but do you think she would actually be able to go through with it?  She's not as cold hearted as Flemeth (her falling in love with a male PC or becoming good friends with a female PC depending ont he playthrough) and so I think she would end up loving her child and be unable to follow through on Flemeth's plan.

[InvaderErl]

Morrigan says she won't become an abomination to the Desire Demon that's got Connor so I'm guessing a no.

[CptPatch]

CptPatch wrote...
Out of curiosity:  Has ANYONE ever tried to refuse to take Morrigan along from Flemeth's hut?

Answered my own question here.  I went back to an early Save and went through the dialog tree at Flemeth's hut (after Ostagar; before Lothering).

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO LEAVE FLEMETH"S HUT W/O MORRIGAN IN THE PARTY.  All branches of the dialog tree end with the three of you leaving together.

If you exit the hut and go directly to Camp, you can then converse with her there and tell her to leave.  I can NOT say for certain that she won't turn up later, most likely on the Eve Of Battle, to try to sell you on the Dark Ritual.  I think it is safe to say that the option to kick her out of the party may be invoked at any time after departing Flemeth's hut.  However, I am inclined to believe that no matter what, she will turn up on the Eve Of Battle and try to sell you on the Dark Ritual.

[Hmm.  I've heard that you can get Wynne and Leliana killed off permanently.  Really do not know how that happens unless you yourself attack them.  I think that's only if you take the Low Road at the end of Urn of Sacred Ashes.  Don't know if it's even possible to foce Morrigan into a fight to the death.]

Modifié par CptPatch, 23 janvier 2010 - 06:09 .

[VernRyan]

The biggest problem with your idea is the assumption that the soul of the old god makes the form anymore powerful than the one it was born to. The child could be a normal human with a very powerful soul, something that doesnt translate if they take over the body. Kicking the soul of a god out of a body also sounds a lot more difficult than taking it from a mortal.



There are other motivations for bringing the soul of the old god back into the world. They may be against the domination by the chantry that forces them to hide in the wilds.

[CptPatch]

InvaderErl wrote...
She likely intended to wait for the Orlesian Grey Wardens to show up and knock one up before the last battle. No fuss, no muss. Gaider said as much when somebody asked why she was so mean to Alistair if she needed him (if the Warden is female).

At Flemeth's hut, Flemeth clearly states that you and Alistair are the last two Wardens in all of Ferelden, so it falls to the two of you to save Ferelden.  Further conversation has Alistair say something along the lines of, "It seems that Loghain has kept the Orlesian Wardens out.  I don't think coming."  Which IS a reasonable assumption as we learn later in the game.

As for being mean to Alistair, I sure she can't help her self.  At the beginning (where they first meet and for most of the game, really) Alistair is seriously whiny and pathetic.  Morrigan is most likely of the opinion that if she really needs to, she can simply bully Alistair into doing what she wants.  (And she's more than likely correct in the assumption.)

[CptPatch]

VernRyan wrote...


The biggest problem with your idea is the assumption that the soul of the old god makes the form anymore powerful than the one it was born to. The child could be a normal human with a very powerful soul, something that doesnt translate if they take over the body. Kicking the soul of a god out of a body also sounds a lot more difficult than taking it from a mortal.

There are other motivations for bringing the soul of the old god back into the world. They may be against the domination by the chantry that forces them to hide in the wilds.

I figure it's much like how a demon possesses a Mage to create an abomination: Both souls are there, but the demon is in control, AND the abomination is more powerful, the more advanced the Mage was.

Pointedly, the Dark Ritual is based on theory.  It has literally NEVER been done before.  (There were only four previous Blights, and everyone knows how those ended.)  More than anything, Flemeth and Morrigan are actually guessing that they will derive great power by taking control of an Old God's power.  What will _actually_ happen boils down to four possibilities.

1) The Dark Ritual works as designed and you end up with Morrigan/Flemeth combining their own power with that of an Old God.  (You thought Flemeth as a dragon was tough?  Just imagine....)

2) Morrigan/Flemeth fail to dominate the Old God and _it_ takes control.  Again, you would have the combined power of an Old God with that of Morrigan/Flemeth.  (And most likely the Old God is very, very pissed.)

3) The whole thing falls apart and the Old God and Morrigan destroy each other in a delayed time bomb.  Pretty much the same result as when the Old God and the Warden that killed the archdemon try to occupy the same space.

4) Nothing much of anything occurs.  The Old God's soul (or more importantly, the Old God's power) fails to "take root".  In which case, all they have to show for their efforts is a potential host that either Morrigan or Flemeth can transfer to once the child has been properly prepped, per the directions in the Black Grimoire.

[Caelamia]

You can ask Morrigan why she thinks Flemeth sent her along with you and she'll say something along the lines of, "I really don't know." You can then conjecture that she learned of Flemeth's plan from the Black and True Grimoires, but even if you don't give her either of these books, Morrigan will still show up at the end. Citing Flemeth's reason to save the Wardens and send her along with them was to achieve this result (doing the ritual).

Whether this is a plot hole or Morrigan finds out on her own what Flemeth's plan is (or if she knew it all along), we never get to find out. It may even be incorrect dialogue, like that of Alistair referring to himself as king when you've not made him so.

From what I have seen in my playthroughs, there is even indication that she will not be there with you at the end. You can see this even before Landsmeet. Last game I was playing a human mage, in a relationship with Alistair and Morrigan was at +100 Friendly. I got the dialogue option at one point of something like, "You're my friend. You know you can always rely on me."

To this Morrigan replies rather shakedly, "You ... too much could happen in days to come to ... make such promises. Yet I am ... grateful."

If you refuse the ritual, does it say she is "with child" when she arrives in Orlais? If so, I cannot think of any other way she would be able to obtain the Old God's soul without either of the Ferelden Wardens' help.

[CptPatch]

jsr24 wrote...

I don't think Flemeth was at all after Morrigan's body she wants the child's body, but I'm sure she doubts she would be able to bed The Warden, so she sends her lovely daughter off to perform the ritual.

I think the salient point is that NO ONE could have predicted _when_ a Blight would occur.  More than likely the whole scheme was Flemeth taking advantage of a major opportunity that has presented itself.  After all....

Why would Flemeth even bother to take and preserve the Grey Warden treaties?  Notice that _nowhere_ is it mentioned about WHEN Flemeth took the treaties.  All she says is that the seals wore off  "a long time ago".  A "long time" in terms of a mayfly's life cycle?  Or in terms of Flemeth's life span?  Regardless of that, _why_ take them in the first place.  The ONLY thing I can think of for that answer is that sooner or later, some Wardens would come looking for them.  And _that_ would pretty much occur when the Wardens would absolutely need them  -- for dealing with an in-progress Blight.  Putting Flemeth in touch with the Grey Wardens gives her the best opportunity to infiltrate Morrigan into the very heart of the Wardens' party.  Do you really think it was just a coincidence that Morrigan turns up at the ONE place the Wardens would definitely go to when they were looking for those treaties?  And do you really think that it's a coincidence that the ONLY two Wardens that Flemeth could save were two of the Wardens that she had already met?  Two _new_ Wardens with little idea of what they would need to do, and therefore the most open to suggestions?  Two Wardens that just happen to still have the treaties in their Inventory?  (In case you were wondering how Flemeth could find those two amidst all the chaos of a battle in progress.  Think of it as planting a Fantasy GPS bug.)

Anyway, per the Black Grimoire, Flemeth was obviously grooming Morrigan for her next transfer when this Golden Opportunity pops up.  Flemeth being Flemeth probably told Morrigan about the Dark Ritual and made it look like it would be for _Morrigan's_ benefit.  ("Just dpoing what's best for my only child.")  After all, to Morrigan's POV, Flemeth is _already_ immortal, or pretty close to it.  But more than likely, once the baby is born, Flemeth would most likely kill Morrigan ASAP.  ("You keep heirs around and sooner or later they get impatient about assuming the throne.")

I actually think that Morrigan was truly surprised by what she discovered in the Black Grimoire.  AND that what Morrigan says is there is actually what is written there.  This is because if the Hero is a Mage, there would be a good chance that he/she would actually be able to understand what was written in the Black Grimoire.  If it did NOT say what Morrigan says it says, it would demonstrate that Morrigan was lying.  And if she refused to show those passages to the Mage Hero, it would definitely sow suspicion and create a high probability that the Warden would NOT go kill Flemeth just because Morrigan declared it was necessary.

Having learned what Flemeth's ultimate plan for Morrigan was, and knowing what the Dark Ritual was hoped to do, Morrigan MUST realize what would happen once Flemeth had the baby in her possession: Morrigan must die.  NOT killing Morrigan would put Flemeth at risk, having a powerful Mage around, one that realizes that her mother no longer has any concern for her; only the child matters now.  So, understanding what Flemeth MUST have in mind for Morrigan, the course of action becomes obvious: "Flemeth must die."  It would be most convenient if that silly love-struck Warden does it, but if necessary, Morrigan would just have to get the job done some other way.  Lots of romantic fools with White Knight syndrome that she could manipulate into doing the deed, sooner or later.

[CptPatch]

Caelamia wrote...
If you refuse the ritual, does it say she is "with child" when she arrives in Orlais? If so, I cannot think of any other way she would be able to obtain the Old God's soul without either of the Ferelden Wardens' help.

This one I think is just an oversight on BioWare's part.  Much like Isolde's Codex entry ends with "She sacrificed her life to save Connor", regardless of whether or not you took that path. (In contrast, in the Epilogue it says that Eamon and Isolde more or less "lived happily ever after", provided you used the Circle of Magi to save Connor and not have to have Isolde sacrifice herself.)

[sneaky_death]

they probably want the old god body to take over later on in life. Flemeth was probably getting tired of having to relearn all her magic every time she takes over another so if she takes over a god then- she will be super powerful in magic and she will be finally immortal

[jsachun]

GeorgeZip wrote...

The blood of Morrigan and Flemeth (as a grandma) will be in the god baby, so they would likely have some influence on it. It won't be tainted by darkspawn but will be by whatever Flemeth and Morrigan are.

But the Warden is tainted. So wouldn't the child be half tainted or have some sort of tainted influence?

[CptPatch]

jsachun wrote...
But the Warden is tainted. So wouldn't the child be half tainted or have some sort of tainted influence?

Ding!  Ding!  Ding! Ding!  We have a winner! 

The baby MUST be fathered by a Warden.  And what makes a Warden a Warden and not just another man is that he has been tainted!  Therefore what makes the whole transference between archdemon and fetus is that taint that spreads from father to fetus.

Which means that when Morrigan explains the ritual and says that the Old God's soul will no longer be tainted she's _lying_.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Highly unlikely. Recall the reason that a potential broodmother is fed so much darkspawn blood and bile: in order to cause her to transform, because this is the only way she can generate more darkspawn. Were it a simple matter of copulation, that would be entirely unnecessary and rape would be sufficient.



There is no evidence at all that the taint is genetic, rather than a somatic corruption. This business about the child being half-tainted is pure speculation. Cancer, despite whatever it does to change the function of bodily cells, is not transferred via gametes.



Obviously, something about a warden's nature is at play here. Why are we assuming it's the taint? It could easily be the archdemon blood that was involved in the Joining: remember that the Joining itself required lyrium. It was a spell--and so is the ritual. It seems more likely that it's the archdemon blood that acts as the becon, since we already have a strong counterexample to the notion that the taint can be transferred via reproductive means.



I figure it's much like how a demon possesses a Mage to create an abomination: Both souls are there, but the demon is in control, AND the abomination is more powerful, the more advanced the Mage was.



I'm not so certain. The strategy guide goes into great detail about how possession works. Demons cannot manifest themselves in the real world, so they project themselves from the Fade. Flemeth is either a demon or a witch who has mastered one: her soul transfers are a manifestation of this, which is why she is ultimately immortal. Morrigan doesn't have this ability: she lacks a demon. Her soul is attached to the mortal plane and she cannot project it across to another, without a safe anchor in the Fade.



Further, the old god's power is linked to his soul, not his physical form (otherwise there would be little value in separating him from his dragon body). IIRC, a mage's power is a physical manifestation of his/her ability to command the energies of the Fade (hence mana). An infant girl would have none of this: the power would be in the soul. Flemeth--or even Morrigan--could not command the soul, and therefore would not access the power the old god had available.

[CptPatch]

[quote]Emperor Iaius I wrote...
There is no evidence at all that the taint is genetic, rather than a somatic corruption. This business about the child being half-tainted is pure speculation. Cancer, despite whatever it does to change the function of bodily cells, is not transferred via gametes..[/quote]
Ignoring everything else, just answer this:

WHY must the father be a Grey Warden instead of just any other man?  What is it about Wardens that make them different from any other man?

Whatever it is that makes them different is THE prime ingredient of the baby.[/quote]
[quote]Emperor Iaius I wrote...
Obviously, something about a warden's nature is at play here. Why are we assuming it's the taint? It could easily be the archdemon blood that was involved in the Joining: remember that the Joining itself required lyrium. It was a spell--and so is the ritual. It seems more likely that it's the archdemon blood that acts as the becon, since we already have a strong counterexample to the notion that the taint can be transferred via reproductive means.[/quote]
Then the Dark Ritual does NOT require a Warden, as stated.  All that would be required is a man with certain mental and emotional characteristics.  AND anyway, it is highly unlikely that EVERY Warden shares the same set mental and emotional characteristics.[/qoute]
[quote]Emperor Iaius I wrote...
Morrigan doesn't have this ability: she lacks a demon. Her soul is
attached to the mortal plane and she cannot project it across to
another, without a safe anchor in the Fade.[/quote]
Does not follow.  EVERY Mage can enter the Fade.  And apparently demons similarly project themselves into the "Real World", where they can take control (possess) a Mage.  What obstacle prevents Morrigan from doing the same thing that Flemeth did?  She does, after all, have both of Flemeth's grimoires.  (Don't bother with the obvious counter-argument; it's flimsy at best.)  Flemeth is living proof that it CAN be done, and if there's anyone on the planet best suited to duplicate the feat, it's Morrigan.
[quote]Emperor Iaius I wrote...
An infant girl would have none of this: the power would be in the soul. Flemeth--or even Morrigan--could not
command the soul, and therefore would not access the power the old god had available.[/quote]
What you have effectively said here is that "The Dark Ritual will NOT work because it _can't_ work."

Don't forget that people are born Mages or they aren't.  It isn't an occupation that one just picks up along the way.  Nor does it manifest itself out of nowhere at  some random date.  One's Mage-ness is present at birth (actually at conception, probably).  It may require some kind of "puberty" before it manifests itself, but whatever it is that makes a Mage a Mage is present _immediately_.

Modifié par CptPatch, 24 janvier 2010 - 10:37 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

WHY must the father be a Grey Warden instead of just any other man? What is it about Wardens that make them different from any other man?
You're still making a leap of logic with this inference. Whatever they have that calls Urthemiel's soul is not in itself sufficient to create a darkspawn. We have clear evidence for that. You can't simply go from taint-->darkspawn like that. I presented a possibility, but the truth is that we don't know for certain.

The only thing we do know is that darkspawn cannot be created simply by mating.

Then the Dark Ritual does NOT require a Warden, as stated. All that would be required is a man with certain mental and emotional characteristics. AND anyway, it is highly unlikely that EVERY Warden shares the same set mental and emotional characteristics.
Quid? I'm afraid I'm not seeing the leap from archdemon blood to "certain mental and emotional characteristics." The archdemon blood is part of the Joining process: the Joining creates a Warden.

Does not follow. EVERY Mage can enter the Fade.
With many other mages and a good deal of lyrium--or blood magic. This is stated outright by Jowan.

When they enter the Fade, their physical being stays in the real world. They are projecting INTO the Fade, which is the opposite of what the demons do. The only difference between the mages in this state and normal people is that mages are fully conscious, whereas dreamers are not.

There's no evidence at all that mages can affect the real world while in the Fade.

What obstacle prevents Morrigan from doing the same thing that Flemeth did?
Not being an immortal demon would be a good one.

She does, after all, have both of Flemeth's grimoires. (Don't bother with the obvious counter-argument; it's flimsy at best.) Flemeth is living proof that it CAN be done, and if there's anyone on the planet best suited to duplicate the feat, it's Morrigan.
Because you say so, contrary to all evidence? Insisting repeatedly will not magically transform the facts, sir. Demonstrate precisely why Morrigan should possess an ability that only demons possess?

What you have effectively said here is that "The Dark Ritual will NOT work because it _can't_ work."
I said nothing of the sort, and do not mention the ritual at all in that quote. I said that if they took over the child's body, they would likely not have access to the old god's abilities because the old god is the soul and not the child.

It may require some kind of "puberty" before it manifests itself, but whatever it is that makes a Mage a Mage is present _immediately_.
So? What does this have to do with the Old Gods? Perhaps they'll be a mage infant instead! Huzzah, they will intimidate all the other infants of the Wilderness (or Orlais, since that's where Morrigan went) with their power!

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 24 janvier 2010 - 11:12 .

[Hellebore5000]

They say the old god is killed by merging with the Grey Warden who already has a soul, apparently a catastrophic fail for both parties a soul is already there. It can only go into Darkspawn that doesn't have one or a fetus that doesn't have one yet.



So with that line of thinking, wouldn't Morrigan or Flemmeth have quite a bit of trouble possessing the body of the god child?

[RPGlover732]

Just so you guys know, we know very little about the darkspawn right now. They could be some evil trying to kill all, but i doubt it. In awakening its supposed to answer the questuions about the darkspawns secrets.

My point is if we dont know much about drakspawn, then it will be very hard to guess what morrigan is going to do with the child.

[VernRyan]

CptPatch wrote...

I figure it's much like how a demon possesses a Mage to create an abomination: Both souls are there, but the demon is in control, AND the abomination is more powerful, the more advanced the Mage was.

You have any support for that?  It seems more to me like it depends on how powerful the demon was not the host, the mage just acts as a gateway into the physical world .  Their is no indication Connor was anything special or more powerful then any other mage but when he was posssesed his demon seemed to be more dangerous than any of the controlled mages at the tower.  That would indicate to me that there is no benefit in possessing a body with a powerful soul and it leaves open other possibilites, some just as nefarious I'm certain but other possibilities like a semi-religious belief in a more natural world that includes the old gods.

[Dessalines]

The old god soul is powerful and immortal. . Flemeth tells you that if you talk to her before walking away with Morrigan. I believe Bioware for the most part have great storytellers, so this is what I know to be true. Morrigan stated that this is Flemeth's plan, not that this is "our" plan. So it is Flemeth's idea to send her with the Wardens to do the dark ritual.

Second, she does care about the Warden(male or female) She stays and fights the darkspawn with you.after the ritual. She could have left. I know someone will say she wants to make sure you succeed, but she doesn't leave when you ask her to stay at the city gates. She is at the city gates, if she was concerned about you succeeding she would have demanding that she go. She could left after the ritual, or at the city gates. She stays with you.

Third, Flemeth is not dead. Morrigan realizes her immortality after you kill her presence incarnation. Flemeth must burn through bodies very quickly, because Morrigan stated that she remembers Flemeth being younger and having black hair just like hers, but doesn't understand how that is possible. She even states that if Flemeth does comes back to take her over body that she will be able to track her down and kill her again and again if need be. She only states this after she gets Flemeth's grimoire.

Fourth, When a demon creates an abomination. The demon soul is in the fade, and so is the mage. The demon takes control of the body through the captive spirit. (pg. 382` Dragon Age: Collector's Edition strategy guide)

Fiifth, i agree that her destiny deals with a greater evil. She is free, so there has to been something about raising the dark ritrual that has some benefit to her, and if she does care for you. The ring tells you, and it is on her face when you talk to her after the ritual. If it was about possessing the child, the ring would said you feel like someone is laughing at you.

[CptPatch]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...
What obstacle prevents Morrigan from doing the same thing that Flemeth did?

Not being an immortal demon would be a good one.

You seem to be blind of something that seems soooo apparent to me.

ONCE UPON A TIME Flemeth was "just" a human Mage.  Then she took control of a demon instead of the demon taking control of her.

What is it that makes it impossible for Morrigan to duplicate that feat?  Was Flemeth an Old God herself, making her singularly unique in being able to pull off that feat?  (In which case Morrigan would be a demi-Old God.)

Whatever Flemeth had to be able to become the now-Flemeth is also available to Morrigan.  In fact, your argument that "Morrigan doesn't have an immortal demon" is in fact, not even a GIVEN.  You look at Flemeth: do you see the demon?  Can you detect the demon within?  How do you know she has a demon inside her?  Then look at Morrigan and explain how you be so absolutely certain she doesn't _already_ have a demon of her own inside?

Of everyone on the entire planet, Morrigan is in the absolutely best position to duplicate Flemeth's feat.  When you insist that Morrigan can't duplicate what Flemeth has accomplished (with detailed records of the how-to in her grimoires) you are left-handedly saying no one can accomplish what a one-time human Mage accomplished.  Effectively, Flemeth has ascended to a level of godhood and no others are capable of following her.

In literature, such an arrangement would be labeled deus ex machina -- it's that way just because the author said so.

****************
Obviously, neither of us can _prove_ that we are right while others are wrong.  And lines of argument that go, "You can't prove your theory so therefore MY theory is correct" are ludicrous at best.  My view is that there is a wealth of evidence that suggest what is _really_ going on, BUT all of the evidence is circumstantial at best.  Arrayed against that evidence are a number of theories about How Things Work -- which also can't be proven.  Whatever evidence there is that supports those theories hinge on one other very crucial theory: That Morrigan does not lie -- which is not proven (though is _has_ been proven that Morrigan is not adverse to making lies of omission).

If a person does a Risk/Benefit analysis of the overall situation, he most likely sound like Cullen towards the end of Broken Circle: "We can't afford to take that risk!"

[CptPatch]

VernRyan wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

I figure it's much like how a demon possesses a Mage to create an abomination: Both souls are there, but the demon is in control, AND the abomination is more powerful, the more advanced the Mage was.

You have any support for that?  It seems more to me like it depends on how powerful the demon was not the host, the mage just acts as a gateway into the physical world .  Their is no indication Connor was anything special or more powerful then any other mage but when he was posssesed his demon seemed to be more dangerous than any of the controlled mages at the tower.  That would indicate to me that there is no benefit in possessing a body with a powerful soul and it leaves open other possibilites, some just as nefarious I'm certain but other possibilities like a semi-religious belief in a more natural world that includes the old gods.

Basic question:  Had the demon possessed Irving instead of Connor, do you think that the abomination would be more, less, or the same level of power?